Diego86
Well-Known Member
It's not my belief, it's just like that.
The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread
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Diego86
Well-Known Member
The changes made by the factory over the years are not accidental, they didn’t mount ******* rivets, if we take into consideration the first graflex (at a temporal level) that we know, Telegraph and 1928, we see that for sure they have a certain type of rivett mounted on (DULL). This feature is carried forward up to INCs. From then on it changes. Now, I'm certainly not saying that ALL folmer beer tab rivetts are the same, they certainly have differences, but all are DULL. Those who say the opposite are unfortunately wrong.
Drew, your your first statement makes sense and I agree with you in full! However your second statement I would like to interject on. If an unbiased buyer purchases a "Folmer" flash from someone in the community, especially someone with a lot of Graflex experience or has a wealth of parts, if the seller is trying to make an Inc. top look Folmer, of course they are going to shine it up, and add the Folmer parts. The rivet however would not be as easily changeable. So to presume that the few Folmer flashes out there that have a machined shiny rivet like an Inc have had their other coordinating parts replaced, would not be so far out. Not to say these "transitional era" flashes didn't have a few overlaps in rivet styles, that could be a possibility for sure. But I would say a vast majority of this machined rivet style is from true Inc. era Graflexes. And I don't believe it would be preposterous to think that the FEW anomalies we've seen ("Folmers" with a machined rivet) could have very well had their parts swapped and sold to you or any consumer as a "Folmer" top, Intentionally, or unintentionally. But since it was sold to you as "Folmer" perhaps our minds might be more biased towards the idea that it is a true Folmer, when it could just as easily be a nice Inc that the previous owner swapped parts to have it fit in better with the Folmer look. All but the Machined rivet of course
The Graflexe's purchased nowadays have most likely seen many prior owners before it got to you. This being said, if it's being sold as a true Folmer and it has that shiny rivet, don't rule out the fact it could easily be a nice Inc or transitional anomaly with parts swapped out.That being said this discussion is great, but I also don't want to derail Nate's awesome thread specifically about Luke's ANH hilt. Though it is great info to open the minds of any new builders of this hilt to decide for themselves. I went ahead and started another thread specifically to document photos and conversations about the beertab rivet, so we can compile a large number of photos to more accurately portray data. You can find it here:
Machined or Dull? The Graflex beertab rivet variant discussion
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Diego86
Well-Known Member
Don't laugh too much because it's not a joke at all!
Anyway, I look forward to the photos of your folmers..!
Drew Baker
Sr Member
Ah, you misunderstand: I said "found by" the community, not "passed around" in it. Things found in the wild, collected from people and places who'd have no interest in dressing it up for us. I've got a New York Folmer that came from an estate or the like with decades of patina, smooth pins, Folmer eye, long knurled button, single rivet ears, and a machined rivet. That, to me, is enough to undo any absolute claim that a machined rivet is exclusive to Inc-era flashes.
Sounds good. I'd also recommend including side switch rivets in that conversation. There seems to be a pattern to those worth looking at as well.
I was also thinking we are getting little offtopic on the graflex variations, but surely will be interested to discuss all the little differences in another thread.Okay,
Drew, your your first statement makes sense and I agree with you in full! However your second statement I would like to interject on. If an unbiased buyer purchases a "Folmer" flash from someone in the community, especially someone with a lot of Graflex experience or has a wealth of parts, if the seller is trying to make an Inc. top look Folmer, of course they are going to shine it up, and add the Folmer parts. The rivet however would not be as easily changeable. So to presume that the few Folmer flashes out there that have a machined shiny rivet like an Inc have had their other coordinating parts replaced, would not be so far out. Not to say these "transitional era" flashes didn't have a few overlaps in rivet styles, that could be a possibility for sure. But I would say a vast majority of this machined rivet style is from true Inc. era Graflexes. And I don't believe it would be preposterous to think that the FEW anomalies we've seen ("Folmers" with a machined rivet) could have very well had their parts swapped and sold to you or any consumer as a "Folmer" top, Intentionally, or unintentionally. But since it was sold to you as "Folmer" perhaps our minds might be more biased towards the idea that it is a true Folmer, when it could just as easily be a nice Inc that the previous owner swapped parts to have it fit in better with the Folmer look. All but the Machined rivet of course
That being said this discussion is great, but I also don't want to derail Nate's awesome thread specifically about Luke's ANH hilt. Though it is great info to open the minds of any new builders of this hilt to decide for themselves. Perhaps I'll go ahead and start another thread specifically to document photos and conversations about the beertab rivet, so we can compile a large number of photos to more accurately portray data.
Diego86
Well-Known Member
Pls, show it!
I tried to make a point in an earlier posts that on that particular picture I see something looking more like a grayish screw head rather than the original rivet on the bunny ears (while on many others it is clearly the original rivet). Also on some other pictures it seems the rivet does not show on the other side or even something that looks like a hole (toe pic). So I'm very open to the idea the bunny ears were replaced at some point, but none of the pictures is clear enough (for me) to claim that as a fact.
I'm not sure what "lip" you are referring to? Though I think the "s" curve at the top of the flash is noticeably deeper on the lower picture for being at very similar angles.
On the bulb contact assembly .. not sure if it is commonly called a "lip"
Edit: so like these two :
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Oh yeah, I see what you mean there.
I might have mirrored the image to align it with the other or it was already mirrored. I don't remember where I got it from.
Again, I think it's important that we apply Occam's Razor, here.
I don't see any good reason for the prop crew on a modest-budget, low-profile, seemingly-destined-to-flop sci-fi movie to have bothered with switching flashgun parts around. The ONLY reason I could see is to put together the best-looking hero version (in the case of damaged/rusted parts). And this is the same prop crew which slapped together all sorts of items with visible flaws and shortcuts. As long as they looked good on camera, there would be no need to invest any more work in making the props look pretty.
And, even then, I could only see them swapping out uppers, lowers, and clamps, NOT the nitty-gritty details like the contact pins and bunny ears.
So, again, IF there's a mix of parts and IF the production did swap parts around, then I'd attribute it to factory variations more than anything else.
Again, IF.
I stand by my assertion that the flashguns were most likely used as the production found them, but MAYBE with some swapping of the three major components, if at all.
I don't see any good reason for the prop crew on a modest-budget, low-profile, seemingly-destined-to-flop sci-fi movie to have bothered with switching flashgun parts around. The ONLY reason I could see is to put together the best-looking hero version (in the case of damaged/rusted parts). And this is the same prop crew which slapped together all sorts of items with visible flaws and shortcuts. As long as they looked good on camera, there would be no need to invest any more work in making the props look pretty.
And, even then, I could only see them swapping out uppers, lowers, and clamps, NOT the nitty-gritty details like the contact pins and bunny ears.
So, again, IF there's a mix of parts and IF the production did swap parts around, then I'd attribute it to factory variations more than anything else.
Again, IF.
I stand by my assertion that the flashguns were most likely used as the production found them, but MAYBE with some swapping of the three major components, if at all.
That lip can break off pretty easy. I didn't even realize mine was chipped off for a decade because I had nothing to compare it to. On good drop and it's gone. So I def see the difference between those two images, that doesn't mean they are different sabers.
If it is indeed broken, depends on the time when the pictures were taken. I think the upper is from a post production promo, and the lower I got from this picture, that should be during filming in Tunisia. Can't be first broken then not unless they changed the top at least.
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Incorrect. As that’s my post and photo, I can tell you 100% fact that that upper matched that lower on every point. It was all 100% early former... and that beer tab rivet was factory installed.
Diego86
Well-Known Member
Can I have a front pic of these 2 beer tab rivetts?
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