The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread

[v312]

For reference from my junkpile - 2 tops with inc rivet and folmer pins + one with folmer rivet and inc pins. Now that I know the difference - both bunny ears are inc type, and I'm pretty sure the missing one, that I removed myself had the brass pin, so I guess it was a folmer. The middle one also had a folmer glass eye.

 

[AnubisGuard]

FWIW, here's the ears on my Folmer. No divots, but has a large silver rivet driven from the outside that matches the ones on my two Incs.

 

[APOLLO IND]

View attachment 1424633
For reference from my junkpile - 2 tops with inc rivet and folmer pins + one with folmer rivet and inc pins. Now that I know the difference - both bunny ears are inc type, and I'm pretty sure the missing one, that I removed myself had the brass pin, so I guess it was a folmer. The middle one also had a folmer glass eye.

Yes those are most likely inc tops on the right. That’s how mine is, shinier inc top, but with smooth pins.

 

[APOLLO IND]

FWIW, here's the ears on my Folmer. No divots, but has a large silver rivet driven from the outside that matches the ones on my two Incs.

View attachment 1424638

View attachment 1424639

Interesting thanks for sharing that! I believe those are inc ears as well!

 

[AnubisGuard]

Interesting thanks for sharing that! I believe those are inc ears as well!

I guess that would make sense with the Inc pins.

So that makes this, what, a shiny Inc top w/ Folmer eye? The finish is a match for the patent Folmer lower, and what was left of the finish on the original clamp. It's much shinier than my other two Incs, which look satin by comparison.

 

[SethS]

I feel like it's been mentioned before, but I don't recall when/where... I know we have a rough idea that the Graflex was made for decades, in a variety of factories, and that much of their assembly was done by hand, correct?

Add in the fact that individual parts and pieces could have also been manufactured in different places, sourced from different venders, and introduced into different factories at different times... it's a wonder we don't see more variations than we already do. It also perfectly explains what we are looking at.

 

[AnubisGuard]

Add in the fact that individual parts and pieces could have also been manufactured in different places, sourced from different venders, and introduced into different factories at different times... it's a wonder we don't see more variations than we already do. It also perfectly explains what we are looking at.

Right. All deference to AstroZopyros, who clearly knows way more about this stuff than I do, but I have to express reservation categorizing the ears I have as "Inc." It's got features from both, suggesting it was manufactured some time during the switch from one set of parts to the other, so how can we say it's definitively one or the other? It's got a rivet like we usually see on Incs and inner bulb release halves like we usually see on Folmers. So...what is it? When was it made? What factory? How could we ever find out? Only thing I can conclude is the categories aren't cut and dry.

 

[scottjua]

There was a transition period with Folmer Patents that had attributes of both...

 

[thd9791]

We are also dealing with a 1920-30 product being picked up in a reject box in the 1970s. Nothing assures this is the way it came from the factory either

These are neat attributes, like the lever hinge and stuff. I polished my ANH graflex a little due to the newer photos last year, and learned about the glass eyes.

What are people seeing with the bubble strip? it seems like it pokes out at one end, and the toe pic looks like it has a wider card than normal

 

[The Ninja]

Firstly this is a great thread I hope it stays on topic & not stray like other threads.

Shout-out to Nate IronDestinyProps & others for posting their photos, up until now I have not posted photos of my RAF Folmer Graflex New York 3-Cell Flash but with this thread I thought it was time to share, I would be interested to know if there are others in the community who have a RAF 3-Cell Flash in their collection.

Auction Photo:

Bunny Ears attached:

 

[APOLLO IND]

There was a transition period with Folmer Patents that had attributes of both...

Exactly! I’m thinking what we know as the hero could’ve easily been one of these “hybrid anomalies”

 

[v312]

I'd say I see an Inc top then. No brass rivet visible to my eyes.

View attachment 1424628

Now you have me confused ... According to the AstroZopyros explanation these are the "Folmer" bunny ears. Or did I got it in reverse? One brass pin/rivet and one litte hole on the opposite side - "Folmer" ; 4 rivets on the front side, 2 little holes on the back - "Inc" ?

The picture is definitely of the one with the brass pin/rivet (obscured from this angle) and the little dot I think is visible.
Otherwise the 2 of the four rivets will be clearly visible from that angle

So: 1.Hero 2.Inc 2.Folmer. 1 and 3 seem a match for me while the middle is different

 

[Drew Baker]

Yes those are most likely inc tops on the right. That’s how mine is, shinier inc top, but with smooth pins.

Your take that Inc flashes tended to have shinier bodies than earlier flashes is the opposite of what I've seen from others, and my own general experience. How have you come to that conclusion?

 

[APOLLO IND]

Your take that Inc flashes tended to have shinier bodies than earlier flashes is the opposite of what I've seen from others, and my own general experience. How have you come to that conclusion?

My take was that Inc. flashes have a more brushed finish opposed to a Folmer which is a finer brush and shinier finish. as seen in this photo, I believe this is an inc top with a folmer clamp. Look at the difference in finishes:

 

[AnubisGuard]

My take was that Inc. flashes have a more brushed finish opposed to a Folmer which is a finer brush and shinier finish.

That is definitely the opposite of my experience; my two Incs are a satin brushed so fine it's hard to see, while the patent Folmer is more of a chrome with very obvious brush marks, so deep they almost look like scratches, much like what you see in that pic.

 

[v312]

All I see on this particular picture is film grain that totally obscures the finish for me. On most pictures on the first page the top and the clamp seem to shine identically, sometimes it is even hard to see where is the clamp end.

 

[v312]

Incredible to finally see 100% photo proof of the double d ring rivets.

They also can be seen in the movie ... still can't make out any details about the bottom stamp though

 

[Garcia64]

I'd say I see an Inc top then. No brass rivet visible to my eyes.

View attachment 1424628

While seeing it the first time I was thinking the same, yet after clearing up the picture’s brilliance, definition and sharpness this is where I get confused

Even in this pic of the film when Obi wan hands it over, the rivet is on the same side and looks like a folmer set since it protrudes more while Inc is close to flush. (Apologies for the bad quality)

 

[roygilsing]

Now you have me confused ... According to the AstroZopyros explanation these are the "Folmer" bunny ears. Or did I got it in reverse? One brass pin/rivet and one litte hole on the opposite side - "Folmer" ; 4 rivets on the front side, 2 little holes on the back - "Inc" ?

The picture is definitely of the one with the brass pin/rivet (obscured from this angle) and the little dot I think is visible.
Otherwise the 2 of the four rivets will be clearly visible from that angle
View attachment 1424681
So: 1.Hero 2.Inc 2.Folmer. 1 and 3 seem a match for me while the middle is different

While seeing it the first time I was thinking the same, yet after clearing up the picture’s brilliance, definition and sharpness this is where I get confused


Even in this pic of the film when Obi wan hands it over, the rivet is on the same side and looks like a folmer set since it protrudes more while Inc is close to flush. (Apologies for the bad quality)

You guys are right. I agree: the hero top seems a Folmer.
I double checked with my flashes and both my Folmer tops look exactly like the ANH hero top.

Roy

 

[roygilsing]

I have a theory!

We see an inc. beer tab rivet in the colored photo shoot saber.
And I have found out something else: while reassessing the grip positions on the hero in collaboration with Nate, I noticed (and discussed with Nate) that in the Luke / Leia photoshoot, the position of one grip in particular, is positioned differently! Here the red grip in this 3D overlay:

The new image from Nate helped to have a clear view on that red grip #2 from the B/W photoshoot.
Here are multiple views of the 3D study:

It could be that that grip (#2) has been re-attached in between the shoots.
But now I think, since the beertab rivet is probably from an Inc. saber, perhaps this saber is NOT THE SAME!
Which would mean that there was more than one hero. Or perhaps this was assembled for the photoshoot only.

Roy