The Star Wars dead horse thread

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Where we can safely and happily flail away on those topics that mean so much to us, but are utterly irrelevant to discussion of The Force Awakens or any other upcoming SW projects. ;)

On clones. One thing that always bugged me in the EU was how they had the clones aging at an accelerated rate as well as maturing. They're completely unrelated biological processes. All that was mentioned in the films was maturation. Planned obsolescence seems impractical to me. The reason in the script for keeping Jango around (trimmed somewhat in the film) was for fresh genetic samples periodically, because you can't keep it on ice indefinitely and maintain viability, and neither can you keep cloning clones. Since Jango died 22 years before Star Wars, any remaining Jango clones will be in the minority. I never thought the Stormtroopers in the OT were clones -- at least not all from the same donor. We did speculate that there might be a few hundred genetic lines being used, which would easily account for the variation we saw onscreen.

On Biggs' service and the Academy. I treat deleted scenes, and unfilmed material from the scripts as canon unless contradicted. That whole conversation between Biggs and Luke establish that the Academy Biggs and Tank went to and that Luke wants to attend is some sort of Ourter Rim merchantmarine academy. That's not an Imperial uniform Biggs is wearing, as the recently-assigned second mate of the freighter Rand Ecliptic, when he say he's not going to wait around for the Empire to draft him into military service. He also mentions the Empire is nationalizing trade in the Outer Rim.

On Stormtrooper marksmanship. I'm so tired of this one. The only time we see them unable to hit the broadside of a barn is in Star Wars, on the Death Star. I don't know the statistics, but the whole point of laying down a good fire pattern is that many shots will fail to hit the target unless you have the time to stop and aim. I don't find it odd that the droids were missed entirely by both sides when they crossed the corridor on the Tantive IV. They weren't the focus of the troops firing, and would have been in an entirely different focal plane. Most people in the Star Wars universe treat droids as motile furniture that talks back. They probably even were trying to miss the droids, the same way you'd try to miss the Roomba if it was getting between you and something you were shooting at. On the Death Star, they were under orders to let the Rebels escape.

Have at. :)

--Jonah
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
How about the PT is done and canon, get over it.

I can accept all the content of the PT, even if I think it's drastically condensed and creates problems when viewing in a straight-through 1-6 order as George said should be done. What I reject is the focus, the reveals... the general storytelling of the Prequels. And the places where George reversed himself, apparently without even realizing it. In the OT, there's a lot of dialogue about the Force being strong in Luke's family, with no stigma attached to it being a family. Then, in the PT, Jedi don't have families. Just to give Anakin some "forbidden love" pathos.

What I was getting at is that a lot of the PT content is just fine, even if there were things I'd've done differently. One of the first things I did after I had all three on DVD was re-cut them into short films focused on Obi-Wan. It's a much clearer narrative, with fewer poorly-acted scenes, even if it feels a bit choppy. The stuff I edited out was all stuff I considered to be happening off-camera, but did happen. I can even massage the things from the PT and Clone Wars that I think are stupid into things that make sense "from a certain point of view". Like with the forbidden love thing I mentioned above, if it was just because Anakin hadn't been knighted yet and only Padawans are forbidden relationships or possessions. Or because of Padmé's political career potentially causing complications for one or both, or the Order at large. Or something else like that.

So don't worry. I don't hate on the PT because of content. I hate on it because of execution. ;)

--Jonah
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Oh, I firmly believe there are Stormtrooper recruits... but I don't think they're conscripts. The Empire is thousands of planets. Average out the high-population ones with the low and you've still got an average planetary population around a billion. If only a tenth of a percent of those decide they want to sign up and make it in as Stormtroopers, that's still millions upon millions of enthusiastic believers in the New Order. No conscription or cloning required.

Not saying there aren't clones still serving, be they veteran Jango clones who don't have accelerated aging or other clone lines that started later or whatever. I am personally most inclined to say there are some remaining Jango-clone veterans, but a heckuvalot of willing enlistees that have joined up over the several decades of the Empire's existence. Even with a minimum of 501 Legions (filling the "Division" slot in the table of organization), that's only approximately as many Stormtroopers -- minimum total -- as soldiers the USSR lost at Stalingrad. And those were just casualties of just one nation of just one battle on just one planet.

- - - Updated - - -

They are! Haven't you seen the two Ewok movies?

Exactly! :D

--Jonah
 

Michael Bergeron

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Fair enough, as long as they aren't clones. :D:lol

I never saw them as "enthusiastic" believers though. More kind of joe blow military just doing what they're told. There are exceptions of course but as a general police force/military that's my impression.
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Enh... I have a feeling you don't get to be a Stormtrooper without meeting certain doctrinal requirements. They're a cross between the USMC and the Waffen SS. Shock troops with more armor and training, used to board ships, repel boarders, take and hold beachheads, and serve as base security. I'm pretty sure even the Few and the Proud will talk shop when performing what they figure is a readiness drill. Heck, in the Clone Wars, we saw those highly-trained human-weapon Jango clones doing the same thing.

--Jonah
 

Jaitea

Master Member
Georgie-boy did imply that Stormtroopers are clones of Jango by putting that head-bump in AotC.......*cringe*

J
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
Enh... I have a feeling you don't get to be a Stormtrooper without meeting certain doctrinal requirements. They're a cross between the USMC and the Waffen SS. Shock troops with more armor and training, used to board ships, repel boarders, take and hold beachheads, and serve as base security. I'm pretty sure even the Few and the Proud will talk shop when performing what they figure is a readiness drill. Heck, in the Clone Wars, we saw those highly-trained human-weapon Jango clones doing the same thing.

--Jonah

Exactly. I can't see the Emperor allowing any Stormtroopers to be non believers. I'm pretty sure there's a "loyalty to the death" clause when you sign up.

As far as the clone thing in the other thread, I think people are selectively reading because I don't think anyone is saying that ALL Stormtroopers are clones. Lucas just said that some are. I imagine, for cost reasons, the bulk of the force is conscripts or volunteers.
 

DARKSIDE72

Sr Member
Clones were clones... Along time ago. Stormtroopers are modern troops. (made up of recruits/volunteers). How difficult of a concept is this?Seems pretty simple.
 

crabra comander

Sr Member
If only that mattered to a superior military force, i.e., US vs. Taliban.

I still go with the idea that the Ewoks really infiltrated the base and were deep in enemy territory. But an AT-ST was destroyed! My favorite land vehicle in Star Wars :(
 
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