The Official Star Wars Question Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Sluis Van Shipyards, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    Ok something dumb popped into my head today. Where do the Prequel era Jedi get their clothes? Do they Jedi employ people to make their clothing, do they have other Jedi making clothes, or do they buy them externally? Supposedly they wear robes like what common people wear, so maybe these are normal clothes that others already make?
     
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  2. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    They obviously get them from the Tractor Supply store on Tatooine, since everybody there wears the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  3. jusdrewit

    jusdrewit Active Member

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    At the end of R1, as the rebels flee into hyperspace, the Devastator suddenly arrives and promptly ends the remaining ships escape. Given what TLJ showed us about ships kamakizing through ships, is it safe to say the Devastator was seconds away from being destroyed if a few rebels had just punched it? Or perhaps this idea hadn't been thought of during R1?
     
  4. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I don’t know if your being sarcastic or not lol but I going to post what I know so far

    So I forgot the name of the trails, but the padawans face off against one another in a dueling competition

    This is where Jedi knights and masters watched and if they like or see potential in a certain padawan they can ask the council for permission to train them

    The left over padawans who are not picked are enlisted in other programs for the republic

    Some study to be navigators on ships. Some become cooks in the Jedi temple (if my memory serves me right even though they weren’t picked by a Jedi they stay in the temple the rest of their life’s) some become janitors of the temple, or even librarians

    This is all the now canon explanations, though they didn’t go into detail about rejected padawans making clothes, if they have gone into details about them cleaning hall ways, and making food for the temple cafeteria. I imagine there are some trained in textiles
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  5. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    Yeah I remember one of the Prequel era novels saying that Jedi who aren't picked as Padawans get sent to the Agricultural Corps. So I guess some of them could be Force assisted tailors.
     
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  6. Strikerkc

    Strikerkc Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "Look, I told you I'm a 30" waist line, these pants fit me like a circus tent."
    "Alas master Jedi, as I prepared the garments I received a vision of many great feasts in your future."
     
  7. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Another cool note, the Jedi aren’t allowed to have any possessions except their lightsaber and their tunic/robes

    That’s why in the prequels they are always so clean. MINUS qui gon jinn, he didn’t fallow any rules! Lol
     
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  8. mugatu

    mugatu Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For some reason I always got the feeling Qui-Gon partook in smoking some of the old brown herbs, if you know what I’m saying.
     
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  9. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    Most likely made and maintained by droids and droid looms. Boring answer, I know, but that tech goes all the way back to at least Han Solo's Revenge in the early '80s. Not gonna get into George being wrong about the "Jedi uniform...

    Fighters up to frigates don't mass enough or have strong enough shields. The only Rebel ship there that would have been able to seriously damage the Devastator to the extent the Raddus did the Supremacy would have been the Profundity, but it was disabled before it could, even if Raddus had wanted to.
     
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  10. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    He defiantly did!!
     
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  11. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    Ever notice how the Jedi robes are supposed to simple affairs to show their humbleness and humility. Yet they are big and complicated with multiple layers, wide sleeves and pleats. And heck Anakin wears leather! Very distinctive, and noticable and it stands out. I'm getting mixed signals here.
     
  12. Edraven99

    Edraven99 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Screws or rivets?








    .... Sorry... couldn't resist :devil::D
     
  13. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    It's just one more example of George forgetting his own lore along the way. Even within the making of ROTJ. Luke's costume was designed to be similar in simplicity to his costume in ANH, but -- in George's words during Mark's test-fitting -- the black was "more Jedi-like".

    So when Sebastian Shaw got his Ghost Anakin bit filmed, I scratch my head. He and Alec were substantially differently-sized people, so they didn't just throw Obi-Wan's costume on him. The outer robe, maybe, but even then, that got a dye dip to darken it a bit. The inner robe and sash were newly made, with none of the dirt or weathering Obi-Wan's had. And the shirt had details Obi-Wan's didn't. So that was a deliberate choice made during production and after Luke's costume had been designed. No satisfactory explanation.

    Then, later, in pre-production for Phantom Menace, Iain McCaig 's concept art for Obi-Wan (back when it was just going to be him, and Qui-Gon hadn't been created yet) showed him similarly in black and dark gray. But George nixed it in favor of the Tatooine homesteader garb we're familiar with from ANH when Obi-Wan was in hiding.

    I stick with the darker palette in my Jedi costume work, though. It makes more sense, in context. Black foundation layers, dark grey tussah sleeveless kimono and sash, dark brown cloak. The whole thing with nominal color schemes for monastic or knightly orders is a certain semi-uniformity to aid visual identification. Trappists can't be mistaken for Franciscans can't be confused for Benedictine is clearly different from Buddhist, etc. If Luke was dressing a particular way to add credence to his claim to be a Jedi Knight to Jabba, that has more weight for me than the Old Ben outfit.
     
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  14. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    Magnatomic adhesion studs. :p
     
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  15. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    I do believe the costume choice for the Jedi in the prequels was very intentional. It was meant, I believe, to show how they Jedi had kinda lost their spirituality, so to speak.

    For Luke, his costume was meant to show him on a path towards the Dark Side. There's some cool concept art from ROTJ floating around somewhere. That shows some sort of padding or stitching on his shoulders, that looks suspiciously like Vader's armor.

    Is this that peice of Obi-Wan concept art you were talking about?
    latest?cb=20090612044612.jpg

    EDIT here's that Luke ROTJ concept

    8d90f177fce4bb50ed172ce48c4a3dfc.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  16. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    In small part. Went back and checked. I'd forgotten how much Doug Chiang had done with Obi-Wan and early storyboards. But between the two of them...

    tumblr_owvwe09fbf1v3o2r3o1_400.jpg
    46602566422_94d05b3460_b.jpg
    31713584817_8073ae89e3_b.jpg
    31713584857_80b0180c5a_b.jpg
    39690020183_6f06c71829_b.jpg
    46602566292_a548db88aa_c.jpg
    39690019593_09ce0eb207_h.jpg
    31713584627_8094a531fd_b.jpg

    Overall trend being blacks and grays. They, and I, were going from what George said during Mark's fitting session (ETA: time index 9:50 -- Art Andrews, one seems to not be able to embed video set to a specific time index any more...):



    I need to re-delve into Rinzler's making-of book to see what other contemporaneous commentary there was on Luke's costume design, but all the "representing him skirting the Dark Side" stuff I've run across has been after-the-fact, not from the time of production, and I'll go with the horse's-mouth statement from George there in '82 over what anyone else says later -- including George.
     
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  17. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    I'm not sure how much Luke's ROTJ outfit was supposed to be a "Jedi outfit" vs. just showing Luke as a parallel to Vader.
     
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  18. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    I just said... :confused: Did you even watch the few seconds of that documentary I pointed to? The exact words "...but the black is more Jedi like" coming out of George's mouth? Regardless of what other interpretations he or others applied after that point, however he himself might have changed his mind before the end of the production, at that point, in George's head, black outfit = Jedi.
     
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  19. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    Oh that's so cool. I love concept art! Obi-Wan has such a high fantasy look about him. Like he'd fit right in with Jackson's LOTR films.

    Going back to Luke in black. Mark had a disagreement with George with how Luke was being written. And as I understand it, it started when Mark was having his costume fit. Mark noticed that he was wearing black, and had a glove, and a dark cloak. So he asked George what was up. And apparently George told him, that it was meant to show that Luke was struggling with the Dark Side.

    Now I don't think there's a hard and fast rule that says 'black/dark clothes = bad or evil'.(Augustinian monks wear black habits, they're not evil, and we know that Jedi garb was partially inspired by monks habits) We see plenty of Jedi wearing dark shades of brown and gray. And Barris Offee wears black (though she might be a bad example considering she bombed the Jedi temple and framed Ahsoka).

    But with that said, symbolism is a big thing in Star Wars. So when we see Luke's clothing go from light colors, to mid tones, to black. And those colors follow his arc through the story. I'd be inclined to think that there's something else going on. Plus we see similar things with Anakin and Rey.
     
  20. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    I don't think thats what George said though. He says it's similar to the one Mark wore in the first film, (which it isn't) He then says, "it's just a black version, that's a little more Jedi like". Granted I'm listening to this on my phone, so I might not be hearing correctly. But I believe George is referring to the additions of the tabard and obi. Something that had only been worn by Alec Guinness up to that point.
     
  21. Bigdaddy

    Bigdaddy Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Can you quote a source for the test fit conversation you're referencing? I watched the video posted and it sure sounded like George saying that the black was more Jedi like.
     
  22. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    I hate to say this. But I don't remember exactly. I seem to recall it was an interview with Mark, that was posted on YouTube, but alas it was before I had a YouYube account, and so I couldn't save for later reference.

    However, Mark talked about a bit in 2018 when he was asked about his disagreement with Rian.

    Hamill admitted that he had "lots of really terrible ideas" for Episode VIII, at which point he shifted the question with an interesting tidbit: he had a similar beef with George Lucas and Return of the Jedi's plot before that began filming. "I read [the script for] Jedi and thought, 'Wait a sec! I thought I was heading toward the struggle of heading to the Dark Side. I'm in black. I have a glove. I see a trend here.'"

    and the source for that Mark Hamill on Skywalker disagreements, fear of starring in a new Star Wars film
     
  23. Bigdaddy

    Bigdaddy Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Okay, so you're referring to Mark reminiscing about his impression 36 yrs later rather than video footage of George talking about Luke struggling with the darkside at the test fitting. Thanks, just wanted to be clear.
     
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  24. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    I wish I could remember this video. I recall Mark quoting George. I want to say it might have been from one of the Celebrations. But then again, I might be imagining this, all. I've probably watched 50 or more videos with different interviews and such. It all gets kinda mashed together in my head, lol.
     
  25. patrickivan

    patrickivan Active Member

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    I have a question. Who the hell is this mike Zeroh (bad word that kinda sounds like the French word: droite), that is flooding every feed I go to with his videos? I NEVER go to his sites. I never read his stuff out side of ONE article on a public computer (and it was nonsense).

    I heard it's all just made up nonsense, and it HAS to be since he seems to pump this stuff out like water from a perpetual flooding basement.

    NO ONE can have the kind of insight he claims to have. Am I over reacting? That's rhetorical. I know I'm overreacting LOL.
     
  26. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    Parsing through what I've been able to of the after-the-fact interviews and recollections -- from when the movie came out to today -- Mark's concerns were when he read the script and saw his own costume concept art. Stuff like this:

    31737683657_b59880ff78_o.png

    Enh. Retcon. She wasn't intended to "go bad" when she was added as a background character in AOTC. And I'm not particularly thrilled with that take on why the character wasn't back in ROTS (even Luminara's screen time was all but eradicated for the latter). So the black there is, again, not deliberate foreshadowing.

    Yes, and. He wanted to present himself to Jabba as a Jedi Knight. He scavenged stuff from Obi-Wan's home to make his lightsaber. And it's Tatooine. Since they all dress like that there, he could easily have found something approximating Old Ben's robes if that's what Jedi look like. Anakin's a whole kettle of fish I won't get into again. But in general I have seen a lot of ball-dropping from the mid-'90s on. Much on George's hands.

    Except, when you can watch it on a bigger screen, that's the post-Vader-capture version of the costume. No tabard or sash, placket hanging open showing the light facing. George is addressing what Mark is wearing there -- black tunic, fitted pants, and knee boots.
     
  27. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    Is he wearing just the tunic, pants and boots? I couldn't tell for sure. It looks like he was looking down at some concept art spread on the floor.

    And yes while Tatooine wear is robes and such, like what Owen wears. But the obi (sash) and tabard are unique to to Obi-Wan and Luke.

    And considering the color. I would agree with that it was meant to make Luke look Jedi like. Except Obi-Wan and Yoda both wear earthen tones. And since part of the plot of ROTJ revolves around Luke's struggle with the Dark Side. I'd say his dark clothes are meant to represent his condition. And after his rejection of the Dark Side, his tunic falls open to reveal a light color beneath.

    And George understands how every little element(costume, hair, lighting, color, sounds, music etc) of a film should help tells the story. A person's clothes(color, quality, cut and style) and hair tell volumes about a person.
     
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  28. sztriki

    sztriki Sr Member

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    Bwahahahaha, oh gosh is it too early to award the “best joke of 2019” title?
     
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  29. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Now if THAT really is canon it depresses me even more than the introduction of midichlorians.
     
  30. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    EU. I don't know how much of that, if any, has made it into the new canon. But it was more complex than that. It was more a matter of younglings getting sorted according to aptitude before they were apprenticed as padawans, and went to the appropriate disciplines for their personalities. Healing, botany, academics, etc. And, occasionally, padawans or knights would "wash out" and discover they were better suited for other duties.
     
  31. CT1138

    CT1138 Sr Member

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    To be fair, that's exactly how it was in Legends, too.

    Edit: Oh it IS still EU. I wasn't sure if it got transferred into canon or not.
     
  32. Joek3rr

    Joek3rr Sr Member

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    You may laugh. But it's true. George understands that all the little things that some may think to be inconsequential, are very important. In particular, the way a things look. George is such a visual director. He can tell more story with just the way things look, then he can with dialogue and performances. He's so good with this, I bet, you could tell the whole story of first 6 films, using only a handful of pictures from each.

    This is not to say that he is without his faults. By is own admission he's not a good writer of dialogue or a director of actors. But he knows what makes a good story, (comes from his love of Joseph Campbell's mono-myth), he knows that each individual element that makes up a motion picture, should be able to convey the story on it's own.
     
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  33. sztriki

    sztriki Sr Member

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    Sure mate. I know better than starting an argument when you’re mind is set on something anyway.
     
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  34. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Heeeeehhh Mike zeroh.......

    He makes videos of every single rumor out there.. claims each one is a reliable source, and then contradicts himself and every next video...

    He was a very small channel until rian Johnson on social media personally attacked him

    His channel then got much more attention and still gets way more attention then it should..

    I’m a huge fan of hellogreedo, he does some great skits of this guy
     
  35. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    Touching back on this... Ben and Yoda were also supposed to be in hiding, at a time when being a Jedi was a great way to get very dead very fast. Before the PT screwed the narrative up beyond all belief with showing us Yoda, as well as Anakin's fall (complete with costume foreshadowing), we were supposed to discover that was Yoda the same time Luke did. Wouldn't have worked if what he was wearing identified him as a Jedi.

    As for Ben's sleeveless kimono and sash, I can rationalize with the best of 'em. Kept those pieces from his outfit and used a color-remover on them? Bleached out over years in the desert? When scrounging local garments, just went with what felt comfortable and familiar? Combination of all of that?

    He also goes with multiple layers of meaning -- sometimes deliberate, sometimes instinctive. And sometimes he is utterly oblivious to implicit meaning in what he goes with. It really is a crap-shoot. The lightsabers were originally all silver-white. During post-production, he had ILM give Ben's and Vader's their blue and red tints, respectively, so it was easier to tell them apart in the duel. And Vader wears black partly because he's the bad guy, but also because he's a Jedi ("You, my friend, are the last of their religion.")...

    So yeah, Luke's black outfit was likely "more Jedi like" as Lucas said, as well as being indicative of his journey (Jedi sleeveless kimono -- cut short, annoyingly, to facilitate Mark's stunts -- and sash, when he was being a Jedi Knight; ditching it for the camo poncho when he was being a Rebel Commando; stripped to the basic black ensemble when he turned himself in to Vader; and "the light inside showing through" during his fight with Vader when the placket falls open).
     
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