Would be a quick fight. Come to think of it - is there any other Star Trek baddie as powerful as V'ger was? I've been going over it in my mind but it seems he would pretty much reduce any of them to display pieces in his showroom.
The Narada -VS- V'ger
- Thread starter Jet Beetle
- Start date
firesprite
Master Member
What about the Doomsday Device? The only way to deliver the weapon that could destroy it is to shoot it straight down the sucker's gullet and hope like hell it doesn't blow you out of space. :lol
WinstonWolf359
Master Member
Sadly, this question brings to mind one of my biggest disappointments with Star Trek; the over-reliance on the omnipotent enemy ship.
I understand the dramatic value of making our heroes the underdog, forcing them to use their wits to overcome a superior enemy, but at this point it's been done to death. And when handled poorly, like it usually is, it doesn't really show how clever the good guys are to overcome their superior enemy, but how obvious the bad guy's tragic flaw is going to be to exploit.
I understand the dramatic value of making our heroes the underdog, forcing them to use their wits to overcome a superior enemy, but at this point it's been done to death. And when handled poorly, like it usually is, it doesn't really show how clever the good guys are to overcome their superior enemy, but how obvious the bad guy's tragic flaw is going to be to exploit.
WinstonWolf359
Master Member
Think about how many omnipotent aliens had Kirk already encountered just in TOS? I'd counter it was already overdone in 1969...
SmilingOtter
Master Member
From the comics that tie in to the movie:
After escaping Rura Penthe...
:confused
After escaping Rura Penthe...
:confused
robn1
Master Member
Q could beat V'ger.
darthgordon
Sr Member
A story typically involves a protagonists or an obstacle to be overcome. Otherwise its just some random stuff that happened.
I'm not up on Q - i HATED Next Gen, like it more now that JJ Trek exists and the bottom of the trash can has been replaced.
I don't even remember Narada. V'ger always got my attention as a kid and it still looks amazing on screen, plus I like anything about space so it being a space probe helped. I also liked that it really wasn't evil, it just didn't know any better. I know Shatner tried linking the borg and v'ger in one of his novels.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
You're probably just not remembering where it's from, because the name of the ship was only mentioned once.. it's Nero's ship in the 2009 Trek reboot.
I don't remember anything about V'ger in the comics I read regarding the film, unless they made more comics afterwards.
For one, I never believed that V'ger was "created" by the Borg. Spock was pretty clear on that.. it was a race of pure mechanical life, no organic component at all. That's not Borg, that's Transformers. V'ger found Cybertron.
Also, I don't like the part of the prelude story to Trek 2009 regarding the Narada being upgraded with Borg components. Nothing on the ship looks even remotely like Borg technology. Frankly, I think it's stupid that the comic writers felt they needed some kind of reason for the ship to look the way it did. Yes, it doesn't really look much like the "simple mining vessel" that Nero describes it as, but it looks more like that than it does anything Borg. There are no aesthetics to Borg design.. it's purely functional. They build their ships as frikkin' cubes, for crying out loud. And most of that ship served no noticeable function except intimidation and to look cool.
While I do agree about the "omnipotent super-ship" problem, V'ger definitely took it to a whole new level. Maybe that was Roddenberry's attempt to end the whole mess by creating the most powerful ship that ever existed, or ever will exist. Or ever could exist, for that matter. V'ger did what the Borg never could.. it didn't assimilate whole civilizations, but it did assimilate their technology, samples of it. All the technology that existed in the entire galaxy, and maybe not even limited to this galaxy. From a story perspective, it actually makes sense that it would be truly omnipotent. And, as a result, would lay the smack down on the Narada, or even the Doomsday device, or anything, for that matter. It would never have allowed the Borg to assimilate its technology, for example.
If i remember correctly, Shatner's novel "The Return" (referring to the Return of Kirk) didn't say the Borg created V'ger - it said when V'Ger merged with the creator (Dekker) that it created a new life form -- the Borg.
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
I would have given the edge to "Q", however I don't consider him a baddie- more an omnipotent being who is "bored." The "Q" aren't evil as they could simply wipe us out of existence if they so wished.
However from their prespective what fun would that be?
About "The Return" I never read it but understood that they were supposed to bring Kirk back to life using Borg technology?
Anyway my first time hearing about the Decker/V'ger union creating the Borg (which is very interesting), however wouldn't the "Enterprise" episode "Regeneration" have retconned that notion- the Borg were on Earth long before the events of The Motion Picture.
Personally I too think V'ger tops the list of unstoppable brute force.
Kevin
However from their prespective what fun would that be?
About "The Return" I never read it but understood that they were supposed to bring Kirk back to life using Borg technology?
Anyway my first time hearing about the Decker/V'ger union creating the Borg (which is very interesting), however wouldn't the "Enterprise" episode "Regeneration" have retconned that notion- the Borg were on Earth long before the events of The Motion Picture.
Personally I too think V'ger tops the list of unstoppable brute force.
Kevin
darthgordon
Sr Member
I think the V'Ger/ Borg connection came from Gene Roddenberry. The idea that they are related at all doesn't seem to make sense to me... unless they were distant cousins.
First Contact (which came before "The Return") clearly states that the Borg are attempting to call for re-enforcements in the 21st Century.
According to the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth," the Borg existed as far back the 15th Century.
Spock stated that V'Ger's memories included stored images of entire galaxies on its trip back to Earth. This would seem to indicate that it had traveled from outside our galaxy.
The technology possessed by V'Ger was far superior to the Borg.
And the very idea of the Borg rebuilding a probe with a vast amount of technology and sending it home is out of character. The Borg do not nurture the injured and send them on their way. They assimilate.
Besides, V’Ger was Nomad on the big screen.
First Contact (which came before "The Return") clearly states that the Borg are attempting to call for re-enforcements in the 21st Century.
According to the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth," the Borg existed as far back the 15th Century.
Spock stated that V'Ger's memories included stored images of entire galaxies on its trip back to Earth. This would seem to indicate that it had traveled from outside our galaxy.
The technology possessed by V'Ger was far superior to the Borg.
And the very idea of the Borg rebuilding a probe with a vast amount of technology and sending it home is out of character. The Borg do not nurture the injured and send them on their way. They assimilate.
Besides, V’Ger was Nomad on the big screen.
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
Wasn't that more of a tongue in cheek joke by Gene after the Borg were introduced in "Q-Who?"? He half jokingly said that Voyager encountered the Borg homeworld?
Anyway I don't buy the V'ger/Borg thing either. Interesting, but doesn't really fly with the reasons Jedi2016 and Darth Gordon mentioned.
Kevin
I think that the borg and v'ger could be related distantly and it just was never covered very well or it could have found a species that would have made for interesting characters if they hadn't been forgotten. I also think that V'ger may have been upgrading itself as it went. Maybe the organics who became the borg used tech that were left behind and out of date by the race who remade v'ger.
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