The ELSTREE ROTJ Darth Vader Helmet

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by JRX, Jun 10, 2006.

  1. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    Here is a big bunch of pics of my Return of the Jedi "ELSTREE" Vader Helmet.

    It is from the first run and unfortunately has some Dome Flare, wich soon will
    be taken care of, so you can leave that obvious fault out of the discussions.


    - How accurate is it / Details / Size / Colors / everything ...

    - What are its Origins (100% bulletproof facts only folks.)

    - How are its looks compared to other ROTJ Helmets.

    - Everything you like to comment about it.

    And here we go with the pictures:

    [​IMG]

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  2. Darth Brass

    Darth Brass Sr Member

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    That there's an aweful purty Vader helmet.

    In my opinion anyway...
     
  3. GundamZeppelin

    GundamZeppelin Sr Member

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    Who in the hell made that. :eek It is awsome jrx Its amazing i've never heard of the elstree?
     
  4. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    WOW. So sharp... so pretty... I'm jealous. Of course I have my fantastic GH ROTJ which also has roots to a screen used ROTJ (but a different one) so its some consolation to me :)
     
  5. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's been way oversharpened and over-cleaned up. Someone just went a little too sandpaper crazy thinking they were improving it. Another detail that was added in with artistic license is the nose notch on the right hand side when looking at the facemask. It's the part where the gunmetal ends before the transition into the nose.
    But in my opinion, the worst aspect of its facemask is in the brow area. This area has been so oversharpened that they seem to almost protrude out like ledges.
     
  6. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 10 2006, 03:59 PM) [snapback]1259547[/snapback]</div>
    Funny that that feature can be clearly seen in ANH screenshots showing that side of the face.

    [​IMG]

    And if this one isn't enough, then I have lots more from the DVDs...
     
  7. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is there on all Helmets on the left side, but I think GINO was meaning
    that most seen Helmets (and of course he also means all the Originals) it
    is only on the left side and never on the right side ... well from what pics and
    stuff we have it seems to be that way ... but why the heck should a sculptor
    only sculpt such a nick on one side - that would be totally stupid and absolutely
    against the symetry of a sculpt - any sculptor would do it on both sides - :p

    Well that detail is also completely erased on some ROTJ Helmets on BOTH
    sides - for example the Stunt - ;) ... and on most other caps and pics of
    ANH and ESB Helmets it seems to be further back ... but look very closely ...

    I have a little ROTJ Screencap for you from the scene where Luke is brought
    before the Emperor ... the nick is there - close to the nose as on the Elstree ...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That is a trick of lighting. Every original helmet I've seen does not have that edge.
    Also, the elstree has a "fat lip" which seems to have been added to match screen caps from rotj. Only later to find out that the reason for the "fat lip" helmet was only there because of the poorly aligned and mated up clear neck section of the stunt helmet.
     
  9. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 10 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]1259568[/snapback]</div>

    I knew that would be said, so I invite you to watch that whole scene in slomo, and you will
    see that the light exactly breaks at that little point all the way when he turns his head - it
    does not move like a reflection would - the nick is breaking the light at that point - ;)

    Anybody watch that scene on the DVD closely and then get back ...
     
  10. KevVader

    KevVader Sr Member

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    Inaccuracies and the exaggerated dome flare aside...I love the Elstree...very nice lid.
     
  11. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(KevVader @ Jun 10 2006, 05:42 PM) [snapback]1259592[/snapback]</div>
    Glad yo like it - I'm very proud to have it - it looks killer - the face is so great.

    I'm pretty sure it was "sharpened up", but the eyebrows are not sharper than on
    DJ's ANH Helmet - ;)

    And funny is that all the small "casting flaws" were left in it - all those small bubbles
    and stuff in the nose ridge, were the cheek tubes meet the mouth and cheeks, the
    small nicks in the Mouth ... why wasn't all of that erased when it was "cleaned up"
    so heavily - more funny is that these small "imperfections" seen also on the screen
    used helmets are much clearer and sharper there on this mask as on any other I
    have seen - :rolleyes ... well well ... somebody must have "added" them, right.
     
  12. Cyberman

    Cyberman Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think it looks beautiful... So clean a crisp

    Cyb.
     
  13. ob1al

    ob1al Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Cyberman @ Jun 10 2006, 05:19 PM) [snapback]1259616[/snapback]</div>
    I agree- it looks stunning and very sharp.

    Superb.
     
  14. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's stuff like this that makes the people "in the know" keep to themselves. It's not worth the effort for the debate when people don't want to hear the ugly truth. Everyone wants to feel like what they have is "the" pinnacle item, even when it's not. This is very common among other collectable helmets as well.
    As long as you like it, that is all that matters.
    It's just that if you leave things like this unchecked, it later ends up becoming gospel and mass opinion.
    Like i said before though, most people will believe what they want to believe regardless of what evidence you put before them. So why bother going through the effort. I used to do that in other instances but now I just give my 2 cents, take it or leave it, you're only doing a disservice to yourself.
     
  15. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Hehe... "those in the know"... the ever returning reply...

    Wonder how you explain the MGM Vader...
    [​IMG]
    oh wait... I know... "those in the know" know that that is not a real RotJ Vader or that is shadow or whatever else is used to explain something that is in plain sight for all to see.

    Guess "those in the know" who claim to know more but don't wanna share should just be quiet. Just my two scents.

    The feature may be enhanced on the Elstree, but the feature IS there on the originals... and since you don't feel the need to substantiate your claims, then why should anyone listen to you? I would think that proving us "noobs" wrong would be more satisfying than "I know, but won't share". That has gotten tiresome all too quickly.

    But oh well... us "noobs" will just run around without our heads until the BIG GIANT SECRET is revealed (next year). :rolleyes
     
  16. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(kurtyboy @ Jun 10 2006, 01:35 PM) [snapback]1259532[/snapback]</div>

    Personally I think the GH ROTJ is a superior helmet, much better than the Elstree.

    I know we are not supposed to talk about it ( but it's part of the helmet) but the dome is so wrong on the Elstree I think it's an over-estimated high hand piece, seen from a collector point of view and by no means an expert.

    That being said the face plate is very sharp and combined with the right dome it will be an awesome helmet well worth having.
     
  17. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(HDPE STORMY @ Jun 10 2006, 07:41 PM) [snapback]1259662[/snapback]</div>
    Personally I think the GH ROTJ is a superior helmet, much better than the Elstree.
    I know we are not supposed to talk about it ( but it's part of the helmet) but the dome is so wrong on the Elstree I think it's an over-estimated high hand piece, seen from a collector point of view and by no means an expert.
    That being said the face plate is very sharp and combined with the right dome it will be an awesome helmet well worth having.
    [/b][/quote]
    Valid points. I think it is a nice stylized piece and would love to own one, but I just think it is a bit out of my range atm. :rolleyes

    I don't think I have seen much of the GH RotJ, in fact, until very recently I did not know it existed. Would it be possible to get a separate topic about that one, 'cause I would love to see it. Tbh: it is so rare to see pictures of ESB and RotJ Vader helmets. It all revolves around the ANH helmets and all the controversies that follow those.

    Sorry to high-jack the topic...

    (Oh yeah, almost forgot... the picture posted in my previous post is not mine - just thought that since it was only a small piece of the MGM Vader image posted that it would be okay, but if not, well - if the owner wants me to remove it, then please let me know. Thanks.)
     
  18. steveo

    steveo Sr Member

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    I think it's an amazing helmet. Are there any comparison shots of the two helmets? Where does one go about acquiring this Elstree helmet?
     
  19. Cyberman

    Cyberman Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'd say I have been a bit in the know about ROTJ Vader helmets and this is a prime example of the modifications done by the studio in getting the helmet upgraded for the last in the orginal Trilogy. I don't want to get into a heated debate but this helmet shows all the classic characteristics.

    A few points to bear in mind are... Copies of copies... a helmet gets painted and the detail is slightly subdued... Its copied then painted again... This process is repeated and repeated till the detail gets washed away, like a pebble in a river.

    Studio clean up.... They decide to sharpen up aspects of the design and enhance it. The nose has been lengthen... what they could do to make it look better has been done. The result was the best helmet of its time IMO. Clean sharp crisp and perfect.

    Cyb.
     
  20. lambotour

    lambotour Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    <div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Jun 10 2006, 02:01 PM) [snapback]1259670[/snapback]</div>
    While going through my SW chronicles book, I saw the following pic:

    [​IMG]

    Based on the chestbox it's from ROTJ, but that center faceplate looks to be where the DP DLX came from, which was ESB, and the faceplate to the left is an ROTJ. I may have missed this info on another thread, but were ESB faceplates used in ROTJ? Also, I know there have been discussions that some believe the DP DLX dome was ROTJ, this pic could lead to some confirmation of that.
     
  21. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    I've always thought the Elstree was a very nice helmet and am actually more partial to it than the GH ROTJ...I don't think it's been modified to the extent some people might think, however. I hope these comparisons illustrate that. The notch on this tour helmet (claimed to me by Don Bies to be original) _could_ be different from the screen helmet notch, I'm not sure. The eyebrows are sharp and are more ANH-like...but do seem a little larger than I would expect...the tears under the eyes are more ANH-like than the tour helmet, but again a good closeup of a screen helmet would help. On the whole I've always been impressed with this helmet and it has clear roots to an original ROTJ...but as to how many generations from an original ROTJ I cannot say.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    a comparison I did a while ago of the Elstree and the original...the domes are nice...eyebrows look different...

    [​IMG]

    Comparisons of the GH ROTJ with the screen helmet...this was part of a discussion of the ROTJ dome a long while ago...thanks to Kanji for very nice photos of his GH ROTJ. :thumbsup

    (ignore the faceplate on the right...it's a GH ANH)

    [​IMG]

    GH ROTJ faceplate and dome...on the right

    [​IMG]

    Overlay of the GH ROTJ and screen helmet...just lining up the domes....

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Lello999

    Lello999 Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(lambotour @ Jun 10 2006, 07:34 PM) [snapback]1259707[/snapback]</div>
    I always thought it was quite clear that the DP DLX was a RotJ helmet and not a ESB as stated by DP?.

    Nvere the less, the shown helmet looks great, although some parts don´t look quite right

    Domenik
     
  24. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    I think it looks superb. Nice one JRX.

    I remember when I first saw one of these we couldnt decide what its lineage was as it didnt seem "related" to any of the other helmets out there (like the 20thC , DP, Gh etc.) hence I coined the term "Elstree".

    Better than "Boreham Wood" I suppose :lol

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  25. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Sithlord, excellent comparisons. I just gleaned a few new tidbits from your excellent photos. Thanks for sharing. :)

    Peace guys,

    Dave :)
     
  26. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    Great Pictures Sithlord - thanks - :)

    I believe I see something in there ... wait ... here's a pic ...

    [​IMG]

    What do you think ??? ... anybody watched that ROTJ Scene I mentioned, yet ???
     
  27. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    Ok I checked that scene....that area on Vader's left side of the nose is like the tour helmet...the ledge continues to the tip of the nose and isn't tapered off as on the Esltree. Otherwise I still think the Elstree has more going for it than the tour helmet...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  28. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    The Elstree is probably my favorite ROTJ lid, I just love the way it looks.

    Where would a guy go about getting one of those? PM's welcome.
     
  29. gladus63

    gladus63 Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing the pics, it's always the same pleasure to see new pics,

    Cedric
     
  30. Lordsandy

    Lordsandy Well-Known Member

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    Great mask and great pics.

    I love my Elstree Vader................

    [​IMG]
     
  31. yakcam

    yakcam Sr Member

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    Man the Elstree's are beautiful :love

    You guys must be very proud and so you should be, it's just stunning.

    Cheers,

    Kraig
     
  32. JOHNLP (OBI-JOHN)

    JOHNLP (OBI-JOHN) New Member

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    [​IMG]
    :lol that pic can produce two really good avitars. :lol
     
  33. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Jun 11 2006, 06:33 PM) [snapback]1260117[/snapback]</div>

    I know what you mean SL, but I was talking about the small nick theat stops just a bit before
    the nose.

    [​IMG]

    Call me a guy "seeing Ghosts" or whatever you like, but I believe I saw a litlle glimpse of
    that nick on the other side of the ROTJ Helmet in the Arrival of the Emperror Scene, too ...

    here ... (I know, I know - just a light reflection ... at the same spot as on the other side :rolleyes )

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I would love to hear what C-King would have to say about this Helmet, as I heard a little Bird
    singing that he seems to have been involved in the making of these "Elstree" Vader Helmets.

    Also a comment from Cyberman on this could maybe shed some light on its "REAL Origins"

    ... lighten us up, guys - share your precious knowledge - no matter if you destroy a myth - ;)
     
  34. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    JRX-
    I'm afraid that I was just a middle man who helped people get hold of these. I don't have any information to add to the origin story. Sorry.

    Chris
     
  35. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(cking @ Jun 13 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]1260950[/snapback]</div>

    Awww - sorry to hear that - :( - but thanks you commented anyway - :)

    Do you know any other people you could point us to who could tell us more
    about the Origins of this Helmet ??? :angel
     
  36. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Any more info on this beauty? :confused
     
  37. Darth Infamous

    Darth Infamous Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Very nice Helemt JRX. Its certainly a thing of beauty. The argument that its been oversharpend is simply overrated. :rolleyes Just look at the previous post that JRX so kindly posted between the original. The cheeks and the nose all share the same characteristics I believe it shares more similalarities than differences. For the amount of ROTJ helms that were made you cant tell me that each one were identical. They were handmade and Im sure there were subtle variations. Sure the dome is still somewhat flared but that is correctable. The facemask of this helmet is superb. :) Oh here is mine. :)

    [image]http://www.picvault.info/images/120000_star%20wars%20items%20010.jpg[/image]
    [image]http://www.picvault.info/images/119946_star%20wars%20items%20012.jpg[/image]
     
  38. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    The more I see this lid the more I'm liking it.

    Could someone PLEASE drop me a PM and give me info on who I can contact to obtain one of these.
     
  39. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Darth Infamous @ Jun 16 2006, 12:54 AM) [snapback]1262352[/snapback]</div>
    Either something is seriously wrong with my computer or maybe it's the picvault server or something, but I cannot see them... when replying here I can see the links and even posting the links in a separate browser window doesn't work. This is really beginning to bug me if there's something wrong with my computer and half the pictures on this site are no shows :cry

    Would love to see the images, please. Thanks in advance. :thumbsup
     
  40. JRX

    JRX Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Jun 16 2006, 11:55 AM) [snapback]1262548[/snapback]</div>
    Either something is seriously wrong with my computer or maybe it's the picvault server or something, but I cannot see them... when replying here I can see the links and even posting the links in a separate browser window doesn't work. This is really beginning to bug me if there's something wrong with my computer and half the pictures on this site are no shows :cry

    Would love to see the images, please. Thanks in advance. :thumbsup
    [/b][/quote]


    I can also not see them ... :(
     
  41. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    I've no problems seeing them. Perhaps your work has determined them to be pornographic.
     
  42. Darth Infamous

    Darth Infamous Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes Im using picvault. Ive changed the source so hopefully they can be seen now. Please let me know if you can. :)

    [image]http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4569475-lg.jpg[/image]
    [image]http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4569473-lg.jpg[/image]
    [image]http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4569464-lg.jpg[/image]
     
  43. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    I never had a problem seeing them, which leads me to believe it is a browser settings issue.
     
  44. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Darth Infamous @ Jun 16 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]1262559[/snapback]</div>
    My computer is really odd... when posting my first reply to this message I couldn't see the pictures... now I can. Very odd.

    Very nice helmet. It indeed is a beauty. :thumbsup

    <div class='quotetop'>(Darth Kahnt @ Jun 16 2006, 02:10 PM) [snapback]1262564[/snapback]</div>
    It could be... I just wonder I need to change to be able to see those pictures. It's really odd. :confused
     
  45. mikajedi

    mikajedi Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone :) , I also have a ROTJ Elstree helmet but I can't confirm it's origin.
    I wanted to share these new pics I took today.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I can read this on the back of my face plate.
    First generation ROTJ # 9 2003...(inside the dome it's written "3")
    May be someone will know more about it....
    Thanks
    [​IMG]
     
  46. Darth Kahnt

    Darth Kahnt Sr Member

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    To me, the 1st generation implies its a 1st gen cast from an original.

    It is my understanding that the Elstree is several generations down from the screen used.

    Anyone care to shed some light on this?
     
  47. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Darth Kahnt @ Jun 17 2006, 05:20 AM) [snapback]1262966[/snapback]</div>
    Or from the first generation of helmets cast from the mold used... but of course, this is just guessing on my part.

    mikajedi, hope you find out its origin. It really IS a nice piece. :thumbsup
     
  48. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    There were 10 (?) "original" Elstree helmets made in 1993....I'm guessing they were castings of an original ROTJ...so this would be a 2nd generation casting. Nonetheless it looks really nice....it's even retained remnants of the indentations on one of the teeth...
     
  49. steveo

    steveo Sr Member

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    Does anyone know where to purchase one of these? I would be very interested in knowing.
     
  50. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    unless one shows up in the junkyard or on ebay I don't think they don't seem to be available :(
     

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