The DEFINITIVE VADER Q&A session - time to ARCHIVE?
- Thread starter Oohyeah KL
- Start date
PHArchivist
Master Member
DJ, any idea on the coat size of Indy's jackets...?
PHArchivist
Master Member
DJ, I scanned the PHWDC helmet pics but have not uploaded them yet. I will soon though--stay tuned!
darthjones
Sr Member
Okay. Check this out - I'm sure that in some shots in all the films, Vader had a different cape on. That shot in ESB with all the bounty hunters is weird. Remember when Vader turns around to Fett and we see the back of the cape? It looks like material was added in with a big curved seam there, right? Proabably a screwed up cape they had to fix and maybe didn't have time for a collar. They just gathered it close under the helmet most likely.
The best we can ever do is figure out the MOST consistently accurate version. Shoot, look how much the chest box changed from film to film. That was hardly planned. They just had more money for ESB and made it nicer and more detailed.
As far as Prowse boots go? Don't know. Are you thinking of that leg brace? He didn't always have that. Probably had normal riding boots for the films.
Don't know H. Ford's jacket size either. Someone at Indygear might now. Email them. They're usually dead on.
And capes, belt boxes, and cods? Can you be more specific? There is some guy that makes an amazing cod piece but I forgot his name right now. Search the board for subject of Vader cod piece and a thread should come up.
As far as the outer cape goes, I found a good one up there and layed it out on the floor to see how the pattern kind of went. Didn't have time to measure it but it was just over a half circle in size. If that makes sense. I don't know the exact degrees but just over a half circle or so.
And the way they get it to hang open of course is by not sewing in any room for shoulders. It is just a flat piece of heavy wool lined with satin.
The best we can ever do is figure out the MOST consistently accurate version. Shoot, look how much the chest box changed from film to film. That was hardly planned. They just had more money for ESB and made it nicer and more detailed.
As far as Prowse boots go? Don't know. Are you thinking of that leg brace? He didn't always have that. Probably had normal riding boots for the films.
Don't know H. Ford's jacket size either. Someone at Indygear might now. Email them. They're usually dead on.
And capes, belt boxes, and cods? Can you be more specific? There is some guy that makes an amazing cod piece but I forgot his name right now. Search the board for subject of Vader cod piece and a thread should come up.
As far as the outer cape goes, I found a good one up there and layed it out on the floor to see how the pattern kind of went. Didn't have time to measure it but it was just over a half circle in size. If that makes sense. I don't know the exact degrees but just over a half circle or so.
And the way they get it to hang open of course is by not sewing in any room for shoulders. It is just a flat piece of heavy wool lined with satin.
Draco
New Member
The Vader Reval on eBay a few months back was fan made, and the buyer traded the seller a graflex for it! That seller got screwed.
Anyway, I have pics of it, but they're not online. I'm sure someone here has pics of it already posted. Fellas? Anyone? Buller?
DJ: any info on the Engergizer Bunny commericial you can offer?
Anyway, I have pics of it, but they're not online. I'm sure someone here has pics of it already posted. Fellas? Anyone? Buller?
DJ: any info on the Engergizer Bunny commericial you can offer?
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think Vader probably had different capes on, at least in ESB.
OK, while we're still on the cape, you know how when Vader turns around and walks away from the camera we can see like a 2" trim on the end of the cape?
What is that?
Some have said that it's a leather piece attached, others have said it's part of the inner satin lining. I think it's the latter. In fact, I was going to just have the inner satin lining 2" longer than the outer wool layer, and maybe fold it over and onto the wool layer and sew it on. Would this be accurate?
Wookiee, regarding the layout of the cape, most of the websites dealing with this (eg., the 2 Vadermaker sites) advise that you cut out 6 isoceles triangles of 45 degrees (at the tip) each, sewn together at the isoceles sides so you have a 270 degree "pacman"-like cape.
But I found that this was way too much when I put it on my Vader, so I took out one of the 45 degree triangular pieces, leaving my cape to be 225 degrees, and this works about right. (See my site for my Vader. I can actually close up the cape more if I wanted to, but I preferred to reveal more armor.)
Regarding the codpiece, DJ, I think you might be referring to Dark Shadow (ickabel).
I note you said the codpieces had an indentation on the oval piece of about 0.5", but do you think some of the codpieces had no indentation and was level with the outside?
Look at this pic as an example:
Doesn't seem to be an indentation. I see this on other pictures too, and I actually prefer this look. What do you think?
OK, while we're still on the cape, you know how when Vader turns around and walks away from the camera we can see like a 2" trim on the end of the cape?
What is that?
Some have said that it's a leather piece attached, others have said it's part of the inner satin lining. I think it's the latter. In fact, I was going to just have the inner satin lining 2" longer than the outer wool layer, and maybe fold it over and onto the wool layer and sew it on. Would this be accurate?
Wookiee, regarding the layout of the cape, most of the websites dealing with this (eg., the 2 Vadermaker sites) advise that you cut out 6 isoceles triangles of 45 degrees (at the tip) each, sewn together at the isoceles sides so you have a 270 degree "pacman"-like cape.
But I found that this was way too much when I put it on my Vader, so I took out one of the 45 degree triangular pieces, leaving my cape to be 225 degrees, and this works about right. (See my site for my Vader. I can actually close up the cape more if I wanted to, but I preferred to reveal more armor.)
Regarding the codpiece, DJ, I think you might be referring to Dark Shadow (ickabel).
I note you said the codpieces had an indentation on the oval piece of about 0.5", but do you think some of the codpieces had no indentation and was level with the outside?
Look at this pic as an example:
Doesn't seem to be an indentation. I see this on other pictures too, and I actually prefer this look. What do you think?
Durasteel Corporation
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that there were at least TWO codpieces. The one seen in the Chronicles is not the same as the one used in the ESB hyperbaric chamber/bridge choking scene. This codpiece has a very distinct bead or edge running along its edge.
anyway DarthJones...question about the face paiting (Russ, bear with me bud) Where there any helmets that you can recall that had less severe two-tone paint jobs? Seems to me that there are a few scenes in which the "light cheek/dark cheek" kinda paintjob is very minimal, if not downright a homogenous shiny black paint job for various set lighting scenes.
thanks
Du
anyway DarthJones...question about the face paiting (Russ, bear with me bud) Where there any helmets that you can recall that had less severe two-tone paint jobs? Seems to me that there are a few scenes in which the "light cheek/dark cheek" kinda paintjob is very minimal, if not downright a homogenous shiny black paint job for various set lighting scenes.
thanks
Du
darthjones
Sr Member
Hey. Uhhh, thinking back on the codpieces - remember that these are "organic" props for lack of a better word. If you know anything about sewing you know that there has to be a seam along the bottom of this piece. Now, the seam might be cheated behind the front face a little bit or may slip into the front portion if its interior is not fully in synch with the allotted material. Make sense? Think of shifting around the interior of a leather car seat. The seams would migrate. That's all that is. I found cod pieces with seams across the bottom, to the back side of the bottom, and to the front side of the bottom. I also found some with no seams because the leather was just glued on with just foam on the back!
And all the helmets had a two tone paint job. Some were a little less glossy so it looked more unified when I held it but they were all two tone. Those helmets appear ALL black on film unless a LOT of lighting is used. An all black Vader helmet looks gorgeous though. Its supposed to be all black in the story but they highlighted it with gun metal gray because it didn't show up on film too well. All black in person it looks great. I painted one this way before adding the gun metal and it was gorgeous in person.
And all the helmets had a two tone paint job. Some were a little less glossy so it looked more unified when I held it but they were all two tone. Those helmets appear ALL black on film unless a LOT of lighting is used. An all black Vader helmet looks gorgeous though. Its supposed to be all black in the story but they highlighted it with gun metal gray because it didn't show up on film too well. All black in person it looks great. I painted one this way before adding the gun metal and it was gorgeous in person.
Thanks for the info darthjones.
Hopefully this has answered Durasteel Corporation's question about the two-tone paint once and for all.
I've got two of my Vader helmet castings here at the momemnt. One of them is painted all Black because the customer wanted to add the gun metal grey himself. I'll take some photos of the all black helmet sitting next to the two-tone helmet so people can see the differences. I agree that it looks great in person but on film (and photos), the all black helmet just looks like a shiny black blob.
I just want to thank you for sharing all this info with us. It's been incredibly informative.
Kind regards,
Chris
Hopefully this has answered Durasteel Corporation's question about the two-tone paint once and for all.
I've got two of my Vader helmet castings here at the momemnt. One of them is painted all Black because the customer wanted to add the gun metal grey himself. I'll take some photos of the all black helmet sitting next to the two-tone helmet so people can see the differences. I agree that it looks great in person but on film (and photos), the all black helmet just looks like a shiny black blob.
I just want to thank you for sharing all this info with us. It's been incredibly informative.
Kind regards,
Chris
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Hi DJ, did you have time to consider the questions I posed in my last post?
ie., re the cape trim, and the codpiece hole?
Thanks!
ie., re the cape trim, and the codpiece hole?
Thanks!
darthjones
Sr Member
Oh, sorry. Forgot. The codpiece hole is always a hole and at about .25" deep. The thing is - if you take a thing like that, once made, and flex it, the middle will bulge out more perhaps, creating the illusion that it is flush with the rest of the thing. Some of them had deeper holes than others. There was one that was almost half an inch deep but others that were hardly indented at all. There's only layers of felt and cardboard in most of them. Some of them have foam. Sometimes the oval has a different, more rectangular shape like GT, sometimes more oval.
The cape trim to me looks like leather across the bottom and I found one cape up there that did have this. But only one. All others had nothing at the bottom. That might have helped them with the flow of it by adding weight along the bottom edge.
The cape trim to me looks like leather across the bottom and I found one cape up there that did have this. But only one. All others had nothing at the bottom. That might have helped them with the flow of it by adding weight along the bottom edge.
speedtwin
New Member
Hey DJ, I've got one for you:
Vader's upper armor and shoulders.
The readily available set is both reputed to be cast from a stunt set (cut down for Anderson), or cast from the Rubies statue (which could have been made from a stunt set). These available casts don't have a back and seem to be like the set in this ANH promo shot (except narrower of course):
The shots of Vader without a cape in ESB show a full set that comes down just as far in the back as it does the front. Were all of the ESB non-stunt pieces the full set like this, or were these just for the capeless shots.
Thanks,
Brent
Vader's upper armor and shoulders.
The readily available set is both reputed to be cast from a stunt set (cut down for Anderson), or cast from the Rubies statue (which could have been made from a stunt set). These available casts don't have a back and seem to be like the set in this ANH promo shot (except narrower of course):
The shots of Vader without a cape in ESB show a full set that comes down just as far in the back as it does the front. Were all of the ESB non-stunt pieces the full set like this, or were these just for the capeless shots.
Thanks,
Brent
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
That's a great shot of Vader! Never seen that pic before!
*right clicks on picture and selects "Save Picture As..."*
Are you certain this armor shown here has no back? I find it hard to tell.
*right clicks on picture and selects "Save Picture As..."*
Are you certain this armor shown here has no back? I find it hard to tell.
darthjones
Sr Member
The readily available set is from Rubie's I am told. That has a back on it I thought. I saw one from GT and it has a back. All the ones at ILM have the same back on them as does the armor from GT. Hmmm, weird. It doesn't go down very far though. The back has always been shorter than the front on those things. If I have time I'll drum up some measurements.
speedtwin
New Member
DJ,
Here are a few pics of the available armor vs. a few of screen armor. I think all of the available armor is really the same stuff. I tried to find a few that showed how much bigger the screen armor is. The GT armor is much narrower than any of the screen used stuff. While the collection of armor on the table is wider it looks like it has a real short back like the GT stuff.
In the from the top shot you can kinda see the fact that it is full length in the back. Some of the meditation chamber scenes show Vader from the back without a cape and you can see the full length armor. I couldn't find any screen shots on the web of this.
I guess I am to understand that both lengths were made for ESB, but you didn't see any of the full back armor at ILM.
KL - That pic in the last post that you liked I swiped from vaderguy's site. If memory serves me correctly that was a pic from one of the yellow border trading cards when I was a kid.
Brent
Here are a few pics of the available armor vs. a few of screen armor. I think all of the available armor is really the same stuff. I tried to find a few that showed how much bigger the screen armor is. The GT armor is much narrower than any of the screen used stuff. While the collection of armor on the table is wider it looks like it has a real short back like the GT stuff.
In the from the top shot you can kinda see the fact that it is full length in the back. Some of the meditation chamber scenes show Vader from the back without a cape and you can see the full length armor. I couldn't find any screen shots on the web of this.
I guess I am to understand that both lengths were made for ESB, but you didn't see any of the full back armor at ILM.
KL - That pic in the last post that you liked I swiped from vaderguy's site. If memory serves me correctly that was a pic from one of the yellow border trading cards when I was a kid.
Brent
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
I thought it was common knowledge that the backs of the GT were cut down shorter just like they cut down the width of the armor?
My GT has a back, just that it's quite short.
Anyone have a pic of the med. chamber scene? You can see the back of the armor there and it extends all the way down to be apparently the same length as the front.
My GT has a back, just that it's quite short.
Anyone have a pic of the med. chamber scene? You can see the back of the armor there and it extends all the way down to be apparently the same length as the front.
speedtwin
New Member
KL,
Is the GT really cut down in the back or is the armor made for the capeless scenes just that much longer? If you look at the Jedi armor on the table in picture it all looks like it's laying back far enough to be pretty short in the back. At the very least it's shorter than the armor in the meditation chamber scenes.
I just someone would make a run of armor that was at least WIDER! I've seen pics of stuff that people have made, but no one is apparently going to do it again.
Brent
Is the GT really cut down in the back or is the armor made for the capeless scenes just that much longer? If you look at the Jedi armor on the table in picture it all looks like it's laying back far enough to be pretty short in the back. At the very least it's shorter than the armor in the meditation chamber scenes.
I just someone would make a run of armor that was at least WIDER! I've seen pics of stuff that people have made, but no one is apparently going to do it again.
Brent
Darth Bill
Well-Known Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>speedtwin wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>DJ,
I think all of the available armor is really the same stuff. </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Not all of it....
(But, then again, my set isn't "available", so .... it's all good.
)
Russ
I think all of the available armor is really the same stuff. </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Not all of it....
(But, then again, my set isn't "available", so .... it's all good.
Russ
PHArchivist
Master Member
PH San Francisco...
Don't know what film version its supposed to be, or even if it was screen used.
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Email them to me, PH, and I'll host them for ya!
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