The Dark Knight Rises (Post-release)

[astroboy]

I have now seen it twice, so I'll chime in.

I liked it a LOT more the second time. Imax is worth it for the visuals, but not worth it for the crappy audio. worst mix ever.
I think the main thing that was missing in this flick (I think we would probably forgive the other stuff a bit easier) Is an actual a triumphant retaking of gotham by Batman. Nolan really knows what to do with Bruce, but he can't seem to create a realistic action sequence with Batman to save his life. I actually think he fears directing batman sequences.

What this movie needed was a moment similar to "the adama manouver" from Exodus pt. 2 in galactica. It needed an elaborate plan that no one saw coming. Not Bane and certainly not the audience. It just came down to a very boring punching match between a bunch of clean shaven cops and a bunch of thugs.

And then after that?

"sometimes you just can't get rid of a bomb"

Also, as the story plays out, it's very obvious from the beginning that Bane wasn't the child who escapes the pit. (even though he claims to have been born into darkness. Maybe Talia was the second child born there) It actually makes little sense that Bruce thought that at all.

And for the record, I firmly believe that unless he had a fridge in his chopper, Bruce wayne did not survive that explosion

 

[CessnaDriver]

.....
And for the record, I firmly believe that unless he had a fridge in his chopper, Bruce wayne did not survive that explosion

I might agree that Alfred was seeing things is an option, but not after the point was so stressed that the autopilot had been fixed.

 

[teragon]

Well, for all we know, bruce was maybe already out of the bat before he reached the city limits, the auto-pilot did the rest !
As for the subject of realism in batman movies, I don't know how one can deny that Nolan's batman is the more realistic batman ever made on screen, and it has nothing to do with the darkness of the movie, everything in it is made to be as believable as possible, from the practical armored suit to the Tumbler, it's all made to be useful rather than pretty, function over fashion... If the batman was real, no doubt in my mind it would be Nolan's hero, not Adam West in a lycra bodysuit... Not saying this flick is better than the other because of it, I'm just making a statement about how close to reality these incarnations of Batman come.

 

[CessnaDriver]

I'm wondering where Bats punched out exactly?
His cape is enough to land him safely, but where?

 

[astroboy]

I might agree that Alfred was seeing things is an option, but not after the point was so stressed that the autopilot had been fixed.

I would be more open to his survival if the director hadn't already taken us to that fantasy image before. If Alfred hadn't already suggested that Selina kyle might be the perfect woman for Bruce and that he should ask her out for coffee.

Yes, the autopilot was mentioned, but I assumed that he simply didn't use it. He was on a death mission.

And you can't get around the fact that there is a shot of him in the cockpit towing the bomb with 5 seconds to go. (apparently the blast from a bomb like that is close to 1000mph)

I realize that Nolan was still high on the discussion that inception created, which is shy he used contradictory ideas for us to argue about.

 

[astroboy]

Well, for all we know, bruce was maybe already out of the bat before he reached the city limits, the auto-pilot did the rest !
As for the subject of realism in batman movies, I don't know how one can deny that Nolan's batman is the more realistic batman ever made on screen, and it has nothing to do with the darkness of the movie, everything in it is made to be as believable as possible, from the practical armored suit to the Tumbler, it's all made to be useful rather than pretty, function over fashion... If the batman was real, no doubt in my mind it would be Nolan's hero, not Adam West in a lycra bodysuit... Not saying this flick is better than the other because of it, I'm just making a statement about how close to reality these incarnations of Batman come.

see post 485

 

[CessnaDriver]

I would be more open to his survival if the director hadn't already taken us to that fantasy image before. If Alfred hadn't already suggested that Selina kyle might be the perfect woman for Bruce and that he should ask her out for coffee.

Yes, the autopilot was mentioned, but I assumed that he simply didn't use it. He was on a death mission.

And you can't get around the fact that there is a shot of him in the cockpit towing the bomb with 5 seconds to go. (apparently the blast from a bomb like that is close to 1000mph)

I realize that Nolan was still high on the discussion that inception created, which is shy he used contradictory ideas for us to argue about.

Well the five seconds bit is of course to make you think he just got nuked.
That's part of story telling fun.
Alfred's not been prone to hallucinations before.
That was Wayne's department. LOL

And it makes sense that Wayne would go there after Alfred told him about it earlier and all that talk about moving on.

Really, to stress so heavily that it was repaired why in the hell would Wayne NOT use it once a stable course was established?

Why die for no reason?

Batman always finds a way.

He wasn't afraid of dying. He was afraid of failing to save Gotham.
So why have him face death storywise? That's not the character's fear.

 

[teragon]

I think it's pretty clear he did survive, the shots of him in the cockpit are shown 5 seconds before explosion, but it doesn't mean they were 5 seconds before, it may very well have been a few seconds before he ejected and minutes away from the explosion... Nolan messes with time pretty often, and it's not really like inception's ending, there is no real ambiguity, it's just a final twist... I mean the clean slate device, the autopilot, Alfred's little story about the cafe earlier in the movie, everything points toward this, plus TDKR doesn't have a "what's real, what's not" kind of plot so...

 

[CessnaDriver]

I think it's pretty clear he did survive, the shots of him in the cockpit are shown 5 seconds before explosion, but it doesn't mean they were 5 seconds before, it may very well have been a few seconds before he ejected and minutes away from the explosion... Nolan messes with time pretty often, and it's not really like inception's ending, there is no real ambiguity, it's just a final twist... I mean the clean slate device, the autopilot, Alfred's little story about the cafe earlier in the movie, everything points toward this, plus TDKR doesn't have a "what's real, what's not" kind of plot so...

And Miller's Dark Knight Returns ending of the fake death and new crime fighters taking up the battle is to me part of this film's comic DNA.

 

[astroboy]

And Miller's Dark Knight Returns ending of the fake death and new crime fighters taking up the battle is to me part of this film's comic DNA.

other than leaving the batcave to blake, this has nothing in common with millers book. (well, there's one line earlier in the flick)

And frankly, The dark knight returns ended with him leading a gang of crime fighters from in the batcave himself

 

[CessnaDriver]

other than leaving the batcave to blake, this has nothing in common with millers book. (well, there's one line earlier in the flick)

And frankly, The dark knight returns ended with him leading a gang of crime fighters from in the batcave himself

But no longer Batman. Batman was "dead".

Wayne would surely help Nightwing or whatever he will be.

Thematically, in spirit, it's very much Miller's ending.

Nolan was condensing and distilling things down from the comics.
The DNA is there.


Hey, I think Two Face is still alive. The next Bat-guy will have to deal with that doozy!

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

You know what I love?? I love how the Jokers prediction came true. The Joker said "When the chips are down..... These.. civilized people... they'll eat each other." That is exactly what they did after Bane took over.

 

[Jeyl]

Can anyone think of some Batman villains that don't fit in this Nolan universe?

None. We've got a man flying around in a bat costume, a woman running around wearing metal high heels, a mad man capable of doing ANYTHING ANYWHERE, a two-wheeled escape vehicle capable of doing more things than the vehicle it was originally attached to, and a man with a completely exposed mouth able to talk without any trouble.

I'm one of those people who just doesn't care about Nolan's realistic approach. It's all bullsh**. The story and characters are all I care about. I had more of an emotional attachment to John Matrix from Commando than I did Bruce Wayne in this movie, and Commando is a cartoon in comparison.

 

[CessnaDriver]

I do think this one was the most comic book-like of the three.

 

[CaptainWales]

Only just dawned on me that Scarecrow was at Blackgate, not Arkham, I guess thanks to the Dent act.

It's possible he might not have been from Blackgate. I don't remember them showing Crane in Blackgate prison, just because they only showed Bane breaking open Blackgate doesn't mean that Arkham inmates weren't freed too by the Blackgate prisoners or anyone else.

Can anyone think of some Batman villains that don't fit in this Nolan universe?

For me the only three I have so far are Clayface, Poison Ivy and a true to form Man-Bat.

I would like to think there aren't any villains that DON'T fit with the Nolanverse, it's just a case of finding a way to make fit the grounded "realistic" style of the Nolanverse, focusing on the more realistic aspects of the more outlandish villains. Clayface for example, changing shape etc doesn't fit, but changing to use peoples identities you could go with, maybe make him a masker of disguise. Top of the line silicone masks, voice modulators, replacing his fingerprints etc. Going down that route I think there's a way to make most villains fit.

 

[Goonie]

Saw it this afternnon on IMAX. Great movie. Of course it had a few small flaws here and there. The major thing that bugs me is that this interpretation is complete and we will have to endure another reboot. There easily could've been more movies between part 2 and 3 and I would've loved to see Nolan's take on Penguin, Riddler, and other villains that have not yet gotten screen time from this universe.

And major kudos to Anne Hathaway straddling that Batpod.lovethumbsup

 

[CaptainWales]

Also I watched it a second time today (liked it better the second time) Anyway, I was scanning all the scenes for little details easter eggs etc and I noticed one of the prisoners in Blackgate is on his bed reading a red book with a swastika on the cover. It has absolutely no significance what so ever but somehow managed to catch my eye during a scene.

 

[Hecubus114]

The prisoners in Blackgate were freed because they were being held under the Dent Act (which, from what I gathered from the movie, means anyone arrested in connection with organized crime are automatically denied parole) - which Crane would have fallen into. He was being held in Arkham in BB because he was babbling from his fear toxin. After it had worn off and it was clear that he was in fact NOT insane, he would have been sent to Blackgate. Remember Bane blew all the bridges leading to Gotham - and Arkham Asylum was on it's own island (wasn't it?). I thought it was a clever way of keeping The Joker out of the story without actually having to address the character outright.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Arkham in the Nolan films is in the Narrows, which did have bridges but those weren't the ones Bane blew. Then again the Narrows were forgotten after BB so who knows.

 

[Twinsen]

Saw it yesterday, first showing on release day.

I need to see it again ASAP because frankly, I wasn't able to process everything.
That's why I need a booster shot. It was supposed to bring closure, and it delivered. But my anticipation was so high that I was literally sucked in and didn't know what to do with it all.

Now I need to actually "see" it (if that makes sense).

But here are some random thoughts :

- Loved the Bane character and found his voice/accent very original. I saw it in english but we had french subtitles so it helped quite a bit in that regard.

- Thought the take on Catwoman was pretty clever and interesting. Losing the cat theme was refreshing, and making her an actual burglar was the way to go.

- Didn't like Miranda, hated Talia. Useless and bad casting choice. No matter how innacurate to the comics it is, Bane should have been Ra's son. The whole Tate character was dull and uninteresting.

- Very intrigued by the Bat, thought it was fun and not too over the top. It was menacing, well designed and not overused (kinda makes up for not having a new Batmobile).

- Didn't expect Bruce to be in this bad a shape the whole movie. I knew he retired for eight years but I didn't think he would be secluded and walking with a cane. Same thing with his relationship with Alfred. Everything was very sad to watch.

- Quite surprised by the Robin reveal (didn't read any spoilers beforehand). Obviously saw it coming with the way the movie focused on Blake, but never thought Robin would actually be named/created.

- LOVED Batman's come back and the motorcycle chase. It was a very powerful moment seeing him riding the Bat-pod. A true "Dark Knight" scene.

- My biggest gripe? It should have ended with Alfred nodding at the camera. Leave it to the imagination. Same thing with Blake in the Batcave. In my opinion it was pointless. Everybody got the picture when the lady calls him Robin. Again, leave it to the imagination.