The Batman

[The Goon]

Once a movies out, why still just speculate? Time to dig in and dissect!

I usually just break from threads of stuff I haven't seen.

Well, it used to be called "courtesy" because not everyone has had an opportunity to see a movie that's only been in theaters for a little over a week (here in the U.S. anyway). Oh, right, I forgot that selfish children and their participation trophies are ruling the world now. Excuse me while I gum my soup and wait for the orderly to change my diaper.

 

[NeoRutty]

Uh.... that was out of left field.

Not sure how children's participations trophies figure into this...

I for sure got a gold medal in seeing the movie twice in a week while working overtime - at 45.

wouldn't coddling children fall more in line with NOT discussing the most popular movie currently in theaters til everyone has a chance to see it?

Get in the game! If you're not first your last!

Hut hut!

Sports talk!

 

[Psab keel]

I'm leaving in the next 20 minutes to go and see it. I hope it's good. I've mostly skipped the reviews here in the hopes of seeing it unbiased and taking it in fresh. I have some concerns. I have things to look forward to. We shall see.

 

[NeoRutty]

I'm leaving in the next 20 minutes to go and see it. I hope it's good. I've mostly skipped the reviews here in the hopes of seeing it unbiased and taking it in fresh. I have some concerns. I have things to look forward to. We shall see.

Enjoy!

Second viewing had the exact same thoughts during the first 30 mins as I did my first viewing.. "this is going to be the best Batman YET!"

It gives me a lot of hope the sequel could kill.... but I reeeeeeally don't want it to be multiple villains or the Joker....

It would be great to bring in a Harvey Dent... start that relationship as Bruce's entry back into the world of Gotham... Young DA/young billionaire besties.

And have the balls to do ROBIN. I'd love a serious take on that!

I talk too much on this thread.

I just love Batman. You never forget your first...

Even when you're currently with a different billonaire orphan.

 

[bwayne64]

To those calling for Robin be brought back into the movies. Please no ! IMHO Robin can be a younger tween, living with a single billionaire, Creepy. He can be older, full of angst, and constantly up Bruce/ Batman's butt. Like the two abominations Batman forever/ Batman and Robin. Please keep Robin in comics and animated shows. He's fine there. This is coming from a Batman fan from childhood. My screen name has Bwayne in it, ; ) Hell, if I had Bruce's money I would be Batman, LOL. But I wouldn't have a Robin. Well maybe if Robin was a 20 something female ninja type, ; )

 

[NeoRutty]

My Avatar is from a love letter to Batman - that is literally about how I would act if I had the opportunity to be his best friend...

 

[NeoRutty]

To those calling for Robin be brought back into the movies. Please no ! IMHO Robin can be a younger tween, living with a single billionaire, Creepy. He can be older, full of angst, and constantly up Bruce/ Batman's butt. Like the two abominations Batman forever/ Batman and Robin. Please keep Robin in comics and animated shows. He's fine there. This is coming from a Batman fan from childhood. My screen name has Bwayne in it, ; ) Hell, if I had Bruce's money I would be Batman, LOL. But I wouldn't have a Robin. Well maybe if Robin was a 20 something female ninja type, ;

I think the trick is to Carrie Kelly/Tim Drake/Young Syndrome Robin... a young orphan who makes himself a partner... pit Bruce in a situation where he needs to send in a kid...

It would be dark tho... which I want them to edge away from... but for that I would like to see a real attempt...

Yes it may be the worst thing ever... or great!

think Ashtray in Euphoria...


.

I'm sure Gotham could produce such a lad.....

"NO GUNS!"

I guess that gets a bit into Damien territory...

 

[bwayne64]

I think the trick is to Carrie Kelly/Tim Drake/Young Syndrome Robin... a young orphan who makes himself a partner... pit Bruce in a situation where he needs to send in a kid...

It would be dark tho... which I want them to edge away from... but for that I would like to see a real attempt...

Yes it may be the worst thing ever... or great!

think Ashtray in Euphoria...


.View attachment 1555916

I'm sure Gotham could produce such a lad.....

"NO GUNS!"

I guess that gets a bit into Damien territory...

I wouldn't want to say it couldn't be done in a compelling way. I'm just going by what has been done and by what Hollywood seems to do these days. I kind of liked the character of Robin at the end of DKR. Bring back Nolan and I would be optimistic. It's just my opinion. I keep seeing Robin climbing the building with a rope beside Batman in the 60s show. Loved it as a kid. Or I see that whiny twerp in the Schumacher " movies " . If someone could do something different I'll watch it. I once watched attack of the killer tomatoes,
; )

 

[NeoRutty]

I wouldn't want to say it couldn't be done in a compelling way. I'm just going by what has been done and by what Hollywood seems to do these days. I kind of liked the character of Robin at the end of DKR. Bring back Nolan and I would be optimistic. It's just my opinion. I keep seeing Robin climbing the building with a rope beside Batman in the 60s show. Loved it as a kid. Or I see that whiny twerp in the Schumacher " movies " . If someone could do something different I'll watch it. I once watched attack of the killer tomatoes,
; )

If Matt Reeves doesn't have a 30 year old Robin using martial arts to dry his laundry, ala Schumacher, I don't even want a ticket for the sequel!

You should watch Return of the Killer Tomatoes.... I believe that one has a mulleted Batman in it! (Clooney)

 

[bwayne64]

If Matt Reeves doesn't have a 30 year old Robin using martial arts to dry his laundry, ala Schumacher, I don't even want a ticket for the sequel!

You should watch Return of the Killer Tomatoes.... I believe that one has a mulleted Batman in it! (Clooney)

Oh man I totally forgot about the toe wringing of the clothes. LOL . I'll never forget the Bat nipples and Butt flashes. I didn't know there was a tomatoes sequel. I'll see if it's free somewhere. Thanks for the heads up, cheers,
Joe

PS. It's on Tubi, cking it out now !

 

[NeoRutty]

PS. It's on Tubi, cking it out now !

Oh god. SHLLLOOOCK. It's pretty trash if remember. I liked it when I was 14.

 

[bwayne64]

Oh god. SHLLLOOOCK. It's pretty trash if remember. I liked it when I was 14.

Yea but that's what makes them good. It's our generations Sharknado ; )
And Clooney seems to be as good an actor as when he played Batman.

 

[Ron]

Robin is tricky to do. I don't think he would've worked with most iterations of Batman. Not '89 (as much as I love that movie and pondered how to make it work) and not the Dark Knight trilogy.

However, I could see it working here if Robin is older and he decides to become a vigilante on his own. It's after then that Batman finds him and trusts him enough to make him a partner. I don't think the "Bruce Wayne's ward" angle would work especially considering how much of a recluse this Bruce Wayne is.

Well, it used to be called "courtesy" because not everyone has had an opportunity to see a movie that's only been in theaters for a little over a week (here in the U.S. anyway). Oh, right, I forgot that selfish children and their participation trophies are ruling the world now. Excuse me while I gum my soup and wait for the orderly to change my diaper. View attachment 1555870

It might be time to come up with some kind of rule where maybe after let's say a week, spoilers are permitted. Maybe have one post in huge font:

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

 

[Paul Andrew]

We used to label threads as open spoilers after movies came out.

 

[Ron]

Yeah that's right. Or there used to be separate "Post-release" threads.

 

[Psab keel]

So I finally got to see it. I would add a spoiler tag but for some reason the last few months whenever I'm on the forums, the toolbar is grayed out not letting me access any of the tools to be able to add it (or bold or italicize it or anything else for that matter) so I'll put a

SPOILER TAG WARNING for those who don't want any surprises ruined for them.



















I can say that while I liked it, I didn't love it. It certainly held my interest and I felt much of it was very well executed. Perhaps a PRO: CON: list would help my organize my thoughts.

PRO's:

-Robert Pattinson did a great job in the role. He was one of the things I was slightly concerned about only because I'd never seen much of his work. I know he's gotten a lot of accolades in recent years but I just never bothered to go out of my way to see any of it. The Lighthouse is supposed to be incredible but my wife isn't into arthouse type films and I don't watch very many movies, if any, without her. Sharing stories with her is way more fun than watching by myself.

-The cinematography was well done and despite the movie being underlit (what is it with movie presentations because they are so hard to see in recent years?) some of the shots in the movie were just spectacular. The car chase was a standout as well as the wingsuit sequence.

-The opening was fantastic and I love the way criminals looked into the shadows, fearful of what may come from them. The journal entries was a nice touch to put you right into Bruce's logic and his motivations for what he was doing. His approach. His methods. I like that while he's filled with rage, he's also very smart. Calculated. Measured in some sense. You can see echoes of where he will go and he's not JUST a tempestuous young man.

-The overall tone was definitely in the horror camp in a lot of way building up that dread and at times I was reminded of The Crow, which was a nice reminder of the uninhibited gothic feel of action/ revenge tales. I really, really enjoyed that vibe because it's not one I've seen since The Crow or Dark City.

-The batmobile was freaking cool! The sound. The way he revved the engine and tried to use it to intimidate people. In fact the way Batman sincerely scared people. As reckless as he was at times, he still had an air of intimidation, something we haven't seen to this extent in a long time.

-Jeffrey Wright was a good choice as Gordon and I liked that the movie focused on Wayne and Gordon working as a team and that the script really honed in on the detective side of Batman. It was always hinted at in the other films but this one finally got that aspect right.

-Selina was well done and her chemistry with Bruce was palpable. It was also an interesting twist to have her father turn out to be Falconi. Her motivation was also one that mixed the Selina Kyle of The Dark Knight Rises with an interesting twist of her genuinely trying to help others like her. I liked that.

-A fun easter egg was seeing the William Shakespeare bust on the table while Alfred was opening letters. It was a subtle nod to the 1966 Adam West Batman but it didn't all attention to itself like so many Easter eggs tend to do in movies anymore.

-Colin Farrell killed it as the Penguin. He stole every scene he was in and I had a feeling after seeing the clips with him that he would be stellar. He delivered in spades and he was utterly unrecognizable. Truly a performance for the books in my estimation!

CON's:

-The score. While I did enjoy the Batman theme to an extent, it does seem like a tradition now to follow in the Nolan trilogy style of scoring where they have one refrain played at different tempo's that builds and builds with no climax whatsoever. I supposed it builds tension but it gets old fast and honestly it's overuse in this movie and others like it has become a cliche to the point where it's been stuck in my head and driving me nuts that it won't go away.

-The Riddler. I love Paul Dano, but I was honestly a bit disappointed in his performance. He's stellar in everything I've seen him in but I think he went way over the top in some sense and it just felt like trying to emulate the Heath Ledger performance by treading into melodrama. He wasn't awful by any means but he just wasn't as powerful as I'd imagined he could be. I hate his costume design too. I get that they were going for a utilitarian look and a SAW or Se7en feel with him, but he just looked goofy at times with his glasses over that stupid mask.

-The relationship between Alfred and Bruce was barely established. I had to remind myself that the focus of the story was Bruce's formative years as the Batman and that he was going to be rough around the edges. Not as polished as we're used to seeing him, where he has the Bruce Wayne persona all figured out and balancing his "knight" life (see what I did there?) figured out. The thing is when Riddler goes after Alfred it didn't feel all that urgent that Bruce race back to Wayne manor only because we hadn't established that Bruce really cared about him at all. For script purposes it felt important because we knew the Riddler was doing something bad but in context to the story I never bought that Bruce cared enough about his old butler.

In fact he'd been nothing but a dick to him. Which is why when they were in the hospital and Bruce confronts him about the truth it felt like a cold way to treat the man who'd raised him. Sure I know he felt betrayed, but still. This to me was the heart of the Nolan trilogy in that Alfred is Bruce's conscience and his wisdom and love for Bruce is what keeps the Batman in check. This was solely lacking and perhaps in future installments it will be developed further. The Wayne's being slightly corrupt was an interesting choice, but I did wonder if between this and Joker that it's going to become a trope unto itself in future Batman tales where they have to subvert the idea of the Wayne's as philanthropists. Also it was kind of weird that Thomas was a doctor and ran for [political office. Those feel like two totally different paths.

-The idea of priviledge has been a staple in the Batman lore for a long time and the battle that the criminally insane try and pit against the Wayne's is nothing new that I'm aware of, but there were some lines about it that felt a bit too on the nose and pulled me out of the movie at moments. Nothing too offputting but enough to make me remember I was watching a movie and a sad reminder of the times we live in now.

-The run time. Honestly this movie was long. Too long in fact. They covered a lot of ground but there were points where I felt they could have split the story in several parts. What I loved about Batman the Animated Series is that they told a complete story with a full arc in less than thirty minutes, five days a week. This movie really should have been a series and not a movie. They had some interesting premises and ideas that could have developed into a long form series on whatever streaming service owns Warner Brothers. The plot within a plot and overly intricate plan of the Riddler had me feeling like it wouldn't come to an end at points. So many threads in there could have been separate stories and it's a problem with superhero/ comic book movies where every villain's plan involves the entire city rather than a smaller story that involves a few characters. In a series they could tell smaller stories and build up to bigger ones so the payoff feels more earned.

-The introduction of The Joker. I love the Joker and I love his rivalry with Batman. The problem is that while I understand the temptation to have a cameo near the end of the movie, it just felt like there were already enough villains and known characters in the story than to have to introduce the Joker then and there. I think it was a strong enough story that the studio would greenlight a sequel and he could have been introduced then rather than in this movie. Plus whether fairly or unfairly this new Joker will be compared to Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson and the brief appearance here did not impress me in the least. The laugh wasn't very good and you can tell he had the distorted comic book face which looked goofy, even in the split second shot we saw him.

Overall I enjoyed it and it was the first Batman film I've seen in a theater in 10 years with the last being The Dark Knight Rises. I don't know how I feel about a sequel but I'd be shocked if they didn't make one. Now that I've said my piece I'm going to back track in the thread to see what you all thought of it. I didn't want to read your posts before I wrote this so that my recollection was as sharp as I could be without getting swayed one way or the other.

 

[bwayne64]

I don't know how they're going to do the Joker after Ledger. I mean a lot of people liked Joaquin's version, I didn't. And that thing in Suicide Squad, no thanks. I just can't see anyone ever touching Ledger. And I was one of those people who hated the makeup when I first saw the preview. There was a style and a feeling with Ledger that will never be duplicated. It will be like eating a veggie burger after eating real beef. Yuck !

 

[Ron]

Not saying it would've been a good idea or work but I actually thought for a second that was going to be Joaquin's Joker in the cell next to him. I realize the movies are set 40 years apart from each other but I thought they might just ignore that.

 

[batguy]

I don't know how they're going to do the Joker after Ledger. I mean a lot of people liked Joaquin's version, I didn't. And that thing in Suicide Squad, no thanks. I just can't see anyone ever touching Ledger. And I was one of those people who hated the makeup when I first saw the preview. There was a style and a feeling with Ledger that will never be duplicated. It will be like eating a veggie burger after eating real beef. Yuck !

Pretty much. It wasn't only Heath Ledger, it was him + the script & filmmaker & crew he was working with.

Joachim Phoenix wasn't playing the conventional Joker so it's not comparable.
Leto's Joker was a PG-13 version of a Joel Schumacher villain.


Look at what happened after Christopher Reeve played Superman. That role was basically closed for a generation. Warner Bros won't admit it but I think that is the situation with the Joker now. Ledger's movie was already 13 years ago and it still feels like an impossible act to follow.

The studios always get too fixated on a couple of villains in the big superhero franchises. Why can't we get a live-action Batman vs Clayface movie?

 

[joberg]

Ledger's Joker was not acting...that's the difference! Heath was, in my opinion, already in trouble (drugs) and his immersion into that character pushed him over the edge. He went over "The Method"...and yes, he's untouchable in that role
As for re-introducing Robin into the fold; I think he should be first a competitor to Batman. Two crime fighters cleaning Gotham at once...until they agree to be a tandem. That agreement should come as a logic consequence of some kind of situation threatening the life of, either the heroes or the innocents, or both.