The Batman

I've been vocal about my frustration over reboots, sequels and endless superhero movies. Initially I was totally apathetic towards this but it drew me in. I don't get that feeling often anymore from movies so I'll follow it. I hope it's good. If not, oh well. I'm happy to gamble the price of a movie ticket on this one.

As for Batman as a character and a franchise I agree he's been done to death but the fact that he's got so much to go on and the takes have been wildly different from one another is what's kept me interested. I openly acknowledge my bias towards the property though I haven't seen or liked every iteration of it. I didn't bother with Justice League after the snoozefest that was Batman V. Superman.

I'll keep watching until I lose interest. When I do lose interest in the latest offering and I need my Bat fix I'll just revisit the Animated series.

 
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batguy said:
I have never been able to forgive Tim Burton for 'Returns.' That movie was self-indulgent instead of serving the audience and it sent the franchise down the toilet for a long time. When it came out there was one good Batman movie on the planet. After 'Returns' there was no reason to assume there would ever be another good one.

The 1980s-90s was before the modern superhero movie era. When a franchise had 1 or 2 bad movies in a row then it was over. It wasn't just temporarily benched for a few years like today. 'Batman Returns' could have ended it like 'Jaws the Revenge'.

Even with the 2000s superhero boom, it was still 16 years between the first good Batman movie and the second.


(As for the Adam West era - that's a different franchise in my mind.)
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Interesting. I've grown even fonder of "Returns" over the years. I love the gothic fairy tale style of it and how Bruce and Selina's attraction to each other stems from their shared damaged psychologies. If Burton had been allowed to make Batman 3, I believe we would have gotten a more character driven story like Batman Begins, but Warner Bros. decided they wanted to sell more happy meal toys. Ah the 90's. What a shame.
 
batguy said:
I have never been able to forgive Tim Burton for 'Returns.' That movie was self-indulgent instead of serving the audience and it sent the franchise down the toilet for a long time. When it came out there was one good Batman movie on the planet. After 'Returns' there was no reason to assume there would ever be another good one.

The 1980s-90s was before the modern superhero movie era. When a franchise had 1 or 2 bad movies in a row then it was over. It wasn't just temporarily benched for a few years like today. 'Batman Returns' could have ended it like 'Jaws the Revenge'.

Even with the 2000s superhero boom, it was still 16 years between the first good Batman movie and the second.


(As for the Adam West era - that's a different franchise in my mind.)
Click to expand...
TBH I think BR was the best Burton..
THE penguin was quite horrifying and fleshed out his story
Cat Woman well what can I say...
Chris Walkings Mayor was good..
I personally thought the first pandered too much to its Stars.
Yes there was a comedic vein but hey that's Batman!
The Gotham series I really enjoyed, yeah it had a few misses but being a series it could pick up the slack..

I see this movie more in the vein of Gotham...

Dark violent and interesting with a touch of The Crow thrown in.
 
Ron said:
Interesting. I've grown even fonder of "Returns" over the years. I love the gothic fairy tale style of it and how Bruce and Selina's attraction to each other stems from their shared damaged psychologies. If Burton had been allowed to make Batman 3, I believe we would have gotten a more character driven story like Batman Begins, but Warner Bros. decided they wanted to sell more happy meal toys. Ah the 90's. What a shame.
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"I'll get Drive Through"
Its the only line I remember... funny that!
 
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Selina and Bruce carry that movie. Their dynamic is the emotional anchor that kept me engaged and their complicated relationship still works. I empathize in a way with Cobblepot but the other two are what I love about Returns. Michelle Pfeifer's performance is still the benchmark in terms of performance and costume design. Plus being an Indiana Jones fan as well as whip cracker Anthony DeLongis's whip training for Michelle stands the test of time as being some of the best ever committed to film.

I remember seeing a touring version of the Catwoman costume along with Batman in our local mall which were donated to the Warner Bros store and it sat there for a few months. I would stare at them both every time I went there because it was my first time seeing something tied to the production of the movie. Even if it wasn't used specifically by those actors as a kid it was still far superior to any drug store costumes I'd grown up seeing.

I too have a sneaking suspicion that Colin is going to steal the movie. As soon as I saw him in makeup I didn't recognize him at all. Plus the second footage of him with dialog began airing I still can't believe it's him. He's going to be incredible! Talk about disappearing into the character!
 
Interesting. I've grown even fonder of "Returns" over the years. I love the gothic fairy tale style of it and how Bruce and Selina's attraction to each other stems from their shared damaged psychologies. If Burton had been allowed to make Batman 3, I believe we would have gotten a more character driven story like Batman Begins, but Warner Bros. decided they wanted to sell more happy meal toys. Ah the 90's. What a shame.
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Put it this way:
I really like 'Galaxy Quest'. Many Star Trek fans do. But what if GQ had been the second ST movie in the early 1980s instead of 'Wrath of Kahn'? And then Shatner & Nimoy left the series after that lampooning, and the next several ST movies sucked hard, and it took another decade to get good ST again? I don't think GQ would be remembered so fondly in those circumstances.


As for Tim Burton's third Batman movie, I doubt it would have been much better than 'Returns'. Not unless Burton's control over the whole project was reined in a notch (like it was in '89). And if outside oversight is a requirement to keep TB's Batman movies good, then that still isn't really a defense of 'Returns.'
 
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Batman Returns is like Shakespeare compared to Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. To my understanding the only reason Burton didn't direct a third was that he was involved in other projects and the studio had no interest in waiting for him to be available again. If anything should be considered a Batman parody it's the Schumacher films.
 
Batman Returns is like Shakespeare compared to Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. To my understanding the only reason Burton didn't direct a third was that he was involved in other projects and the studio had no interest in waiting for him to be available again. If anything should be considered a Batman parody it's the Schumacher films.
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I've seen Tim Burton say in an interview that the studio didn't want him to do a 3rd one.

After 'Returns' he recalled that they were trying to be nice about it, like "Wouldn't you rather be doing something more personal?" etc. Then he asked them point-blank if they didn't want him to do the 3rd one, and they confirmed it.


The Schumacher movies seemed more like an update of the Adam West era than a continuation of the Tim Burton era. I found them totally unwatchable.
 
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Yeah Burton was heavily asked not to do a third one because Returns "did not meet expectations."

Its reviews were mixed but apparently it was split between too light-hearted and too dark which did a number of selling toys and McDonalds happy meals. Apparently, McDs got complaints from parents and had to state they were selling happy meals based on the Batman character, not promoting the movie.

It is a bit extreme in that sense. There are some fun silly moments like the Batmobile getting armored, controlled by an arcade game, and penguins with rockets that is contrasted with abandoned children, killing a dude by sticking a pen in his neck, and just straight up murder.

I do think Rises did a good job with Catwoman but Returns' Pfeiffer still has the best depiction of insane, attractive, dark heroine whom you dont know is an ally or an enemy. Catwoman nowadays is usually always depicted as a good guy now.
 
Wolfsburg said:
...The animated series (and Tim Burton's two movies) was the Batman of my childhood and in many respects was the sweetspot of what Batman is for me.
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Batman has become the new James Bond in that regard. The person playing Bond in the first James Bond movie people saw was usually their favorite Bond. If you were old enough, that was Sean Connery, younger it might have been Roger Moore or Timothy Dalton, and so on. Now we can tell approximately how old someone is by which Batman is their favorite. I was born in '61 so Adam West was my first Batman. I liked him and the show, and still do, but having read the comic books as well it's difficult to say he's my favorite Batman just because the show was so campy and silly and unlike the comic books.
 
Catwoman -

I agree that she was the best thing in 'Returns.' That movie nailed the unpredictability & sheer pyschosis of the character as well as it's ever been done.

Chris Nolan's Catwoman was a totally sane person who switched sides out of pragmatism. It was perfect for the Nolan-verse but it was not in line with the classic character.


Penguin -

The Danny DeVito version is typical of what is wrong with 'Returns' IMO. The repulsive design was way overdone. It could have worked fine as a boss villain who only had a few minutes of screen time. But as such a main character . . . it feels like looking at a bloated rotting dead fish for two hours. Wait, I paid money for this?

It was all the more frustrating because DeVito's character wasn't just a throwaway boss villain in the dramatic sense. The movie did flesh out his character and make him 3-dimensional.

As for the new one, I agree that Colin Farrell might steal the show this time. I wasn't sold on the idea of casting him (it seems like a poor use of resources) but the early clips look good.
 
This is a movie I haven't been all that excited about. As a guy who has been making bat stuff for longer than I care to admit, my interest has simply diminished
Every time I have seen a trailer and Robert is shown I cringe. He just doesn't scream Batman or Bruce Wayne to me at all. It is a casting choice I haven't understood since the beginning. I don't understand the Riddlers "outfit" or even Catwomans. Which besides what we have seen, I have heard is simply a ski mask that looks like cat ears. Why can't we get a somewhat accurate representation of these characters? BR had it the closest with The Dark Knight Rises not too far behind. If she would have had an over the head cowl that would have done it.
I like the Batmobile. And I think Colin will do a great job and his look is really good.
When I read how WB sent Robert workout equipment during the lockdown and he didn't bother to use it told me his commitment to the character. I fully get that Keaton wasn't some big ripping dude, but that was 30 plus years ago and audiences expect a super hero to basically look like a super hero. Especially Batman. A guy who is supposed to be physically imposing.
Yes, I will see it. But I will have to be seeing it alone since noone in my immediate circle has any desire to see it. That is a first. Even my mother in law who watches almost every super hero movie there is has said she has no interest.
I was telling a friend of mine the other day I was more excited to see ******* than I was this. As a fan of live action Batman films this just looks like a let down.
I am curious about the reviews and I am going to be very surprised if this does blockbuster type numbers.
 
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