TFA E-11 blaster finished, but over 800$ on Shapeways...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by T5H, May 28, 2015.

  1. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Hello everyone,

    I've finished my personal 3D design of the new E-11 blaster from TFA, but i now run into the problem of the printing cost. As i state in my thread's title the final quote from shapeways is over 800$, Sculpteo being even worse regarding this price issue.

    So i'm asking people experienced with Shapeways: is there a way to optimize the printing to reduce the cost? The inside diameter of the pipe section is smaller than 40mm so i can't fit anything inside to save some "Machine space", i've already hollowed some parts to save on the "Material cost" and merge others together to save on the "Labor".

    Is there a particular way to lay down your parts more efficiently before sending the file to Shapeways? Should i prefer to stack them on upon another, or lay them next to each other, or doesn't it make no differences?

    Thanks in advance!
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    virateck and Fly4v like this.
  2. matty matt

    matty matt Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,991
    $800! We could almost buy our own printer for that!
     
  3. jcoffman99

    jcoffman99 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,466
    Yeah but who's going to use it kid? You?
     
  4. SofaKing01

    SofaKing01 Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,660
    you bet he could... he doesn't have to sit there and listen...
     
    dejordzta, mugatu, wh1plash and 6 others like this.
  5. Mean Obiwan

    Mean Obiwan Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    635
    We can give you 400 now, plus an additional 400 when we receive the blaster.
     
    mugatu, TazMan2000, wh1plash and 7 others like this.
  6. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    There's no way i'd sell that at an 800 mark, even if i personally think my model is more accurate than anything i've seen so far. And i don't even know if the print would be a success right now, so it would be a huge investment for possibly nothing...
     
  7. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    BTW, here my current lay out of the parts i've sent to Shapeways and where i've already merged a lot of parts together that i wish would have been individual instead.
    Lay down.PNG
     
  8. Capn_Jack_Savvy

    Capn_Jack_Savvy Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,010
    What a piece of junk.......j/k

    Looks nice. Have you thought about just offering the parts for an upgrade kit on the Hasbro toy versions? Might be a cheaper route.
     
  9. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    No i actually haven't thought about that. I'm kind of a "accuracy only" guy, so i didn't took that possibility into consideration.

    One thing i can consider would be to remove a good part of the pipe from the print. I'd keep only the front and rear sections and design plugs onto them to make them embbedable to a PVC pipe that has the right Outside and Inside diameters. I will lose some details that way but i think they wouldn't be too hard to recreate and that would surely save some money.
     
  10. Capn_Jack_Savvy

    Capn_Jack_Savvy Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,010
    I was thinking compared to some other resin kits out there that have been on the market a long time I see that there is definitely more detail in your 3D print. Of course the other kits have probably been using molds from years ago. A fresh 3D print or resin mold is just an idea for kits.
     
  11. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,336
    So you spend 800 to get it printed, another 800 to get it molded and cast. Sell 16 at 100 a pop and you've already broken even.
     
    LTsmash1200 likes this.
  12. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,080
    I'd just buy a printer, personally. But yeah, then sell casts!
     
    JJ Griffin likes this.
  13. SofaKing01

    SofaKing01 Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,660
    Are the prints you're sending to Shapeways solid or have you removed as much material as possible to bring down the cost?
     
  14. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,921
    And here I thought shapeways had a "no gun parts"-policy? If not then that would open a few opportunities ...
     
  15. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    I have absolutely no experience in casting that's why i want to avoid that way, but ultimately i have friends who know that stuff so maybe i'll see with them... But to be honest, leaving Shapeways handling pretty much all the work would be awesome.

    And yes, i've hollowed the biggest parts such as the pipe sections, the central bloc, a part of the folding stock (even if i reckon there's more material removable here), etc...

    I'll keep hollowing things and merge others together, but honestly i don't think i'll be able to make the price on Shapeways drop under 700-750$.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I assume this policy is for actual real internal parts for a working gun. Here there are no internal or moving parts!;
     
  16. cboath

    cboath Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,276
    keep in mind that when you hollow out pieces you need to leave a hole to the outside of the part for them to drain the interior material - otherwise you're charged as if it was solid.
    Also, the thinner you keep the pieces, the better. Within reason of course. I think we printed the batman pieces we did at around 1/8" thick.

    For whatever reason separate parts drive up the price. I did the E-11 part that sits on the magwell. Put it up there as a single part and got a price of like $50. Separating it into its respective pieces all laying flat for printing to be assembled later was something like $75 IIRC.
     
  17. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    SHOW ME THE MONEY! Uh... wait... which movie were were doing again? :wacko

    - - - Updated - - -

    How much for sterling silver? :devil
     
    jcoffman99 likes this.
  18. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,355
    There already are a number of Greedo Killer parts I've stumbled across on SW, so someone isn't paying all that much attention obviously :)
     
  19. 8 perf

    8 perf Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,241
    Cboath is correct. Shapeways calculates their pricing on a combination of material selected, quantity used, and amount of bed space or build volume your piece takes up on the machine. If you are using the "Ultra detail" clear material, look for a noticeable increase in price as its the most expensive of the normal plastics they offer. It is also the smoothest and best looking after being printed. The White, Strong and Flexible, (WSF) material is laser sintered nylon powder, and as such is printed in a bed of the powder as it goes. As was mentioned, even if the pieces are drawn hollow, if there is no way for the operator to remove the un sintered powder from inside the cavity, you get charged for it. Another thing to be aware of with this material is the fact that it WILL NOT be smooth. Its a condition of the process. You can order it in a polished version, but this is done in post processing by hand by one of their technicians. There will likely be some places not as smooth as others. Take a look at their materials pages for close-up views and characteristics of each material you are thinking of using.
    If going for the nylon powder you can make the walls as thin as 1/16 inch and still have great strength. The clear detail plastic, while giving a superior finish, will be brittle. Better for making a mold master out of rather than a finished piece, IMO.
    As was mentioned before, how about deleting the parts that are round tubes or square blocks and have the end user furnish those for you to add your detail parts to during final assembly. Could drop the cost by a lot depending on how much you get rid of.
     
    DizzyStrmtroopr and T5H like this.
  20. cboath

    cboath Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,276
    Maybe they've changed their policies - i don't know.

    We tried to print the batman arkham gel gun on there as a single piece and they refused because it looked too much like a gun to them. It doesn't look anything like a gun to be honest.

    They said, at that time, their printing was done in europe and that the stringent laws prevented them from doing gun-like parts and sending them to the US (NYC) where they'd be then shipped to the customer from their NYC offices. They did say they were working on setting up shop in the US as well and that when they did those restrictions would lighten up a bit. If they goes through, they've lightened up a lot.

    FWIW, they won't refuse until after you pay and place the order. Then an employee sees it and makes that determination. If they refuse, they refund the money.
     
  21. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Well, good news, with more shelling from my part i managed to make the price drop to 520$. That's good but still * too expensive.

    I guess i could manage to reduce the price by another 50-100$ with few more improvements and shelling, even though i don't really want to reduce the walls too much in order to keep the print strong.

    I read the minimum wall thickness was 0.7mm (1/16) but i don't know if i want to go as thin as that. Right now i have kept walls around 4mm thick. Is it really too much?
    Also about the material, right now i have no choice. The Bounding box for this print is so large that only their WSF nylon powder can be selected. And don't worry, i made sure every hollowed parts had at leats 2 Escape Holes for the powder inside to be dust off..
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  22. Mrcorbak

    Mrcorbak New Member

    Trophy Points:
    2
    Nice 3d model.
    I work in a small props workshop and i can tell you that is not too expensive. Maybe it's over your budget but for a life size replica for me it's pretty cheap. If you make it by your own it will cost you some pvc pipe, epoxy putty, and a lot of time but it's cheaper. Don't forget you ask a company to work for you it's not a hobby. Sls material is not fdm, it's really more expensive.

    Don't go too thick to save a few dolls, if it break at sanding you'll lose everything.
    Good luck it's a really nice project.
     
  23. Blue Leader

    Blue Leader Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    866
    Have you tried 3D Hubs? You might be able to find a local printer who can do it. I've had my models printed locally and they've been at a fraction of the cost of what Shapeways charges. I had one model I priced on Shapeways that was estimated to be $90. I found local printers who did it for $40 (plus I had some other smaller models with it). It might be worth a shot.
    https://www.3dhubs.com/

    Granted, most local printers might not have the same print quality as Shapeways, but I haven't had any issue just cleaning up my models after they're printed.
     
  24. Sni9er

    Sni9er Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,441
    I think $520 for that model as a master is a great price!

    I know your reticent about casting but this is the perfect project for that. a good example was the Kylo Ren buckle I recently made Granted the Geometry is MUCH Simpler than that of your gun i purchased my master from shapeways for £30 including shipping I can sell casts at £15 which is much ore affordable for costume builders

    I'm currently waiting to receive my Kylo Ren mask (just the face plate) this cost me around £90-100 but as i'm casting it's worth it to receive a part that's short of a little sanding ready to be molded

    you will not regret learning to cast !!

    also short of paying for ULTRA HIGH DETAIL every time a print is made there will be post processing to do and sanding where as a cast is just ready to go (save maybe some small seem lines) and is much more economical in time, resources and money

    3D has it's place in the process for sure but to me on runs like this it can only ever be the master not the end product, the prices are too high currently
     
    E Williams and ARKM like this.
  25. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Thanks a lot for all the feedbacks guys. That's pretty much what i was expecting.

    So i'll continue tweaking my model here and there to try to bring the cost the more i can without hurting it. After that i'll see with friends about the possibility of casting it, but i'll be honest, i don't see it happen :/

    Maybe i'll just give my 3D model to someone with more experience and time who is interested in becoming Propmaker.
     
  26. SofaKing01

    SofaKing01 Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,660
    I work very closely with Starkiller on our Full Scale Falcon build. Whenever we would send a part to Shapeways for printing, he would thin and hollow out every part to bring down costs. As big of a pain it is... I would look over every shape/part again just to make sure.

    When my prints would arrive, I would pour resin into the shapes for strength. Just an idea. :)

    Also, we now have a 3D printer. It's not a smooth as Shapeways, but I'm sure my guys would be willing to give it a shot. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. :)
     
  27. Saberbay

    Saberbay Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    362
    I hope Efx makes a stunt one, cast so its cheaper then a full metal replica...
     
  28. cboath

    cboath Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,276
    A moderately detailed lightsaber is $140ish last i checked, so this at 500 is actually pretty good.

    As for your size, you can bring it down to 3mm/ .125" to shave off a bit more and it should still be strong enough. I agree with you though, i wouldn't want to be going to 1/16" unless i was printing in metal or something really strong.
     
  29. The WoodChuck

    The WoodChuck Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    261
  30. RVeldhuyzen

    RVeldhuyzen Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    211
    I'd make everything as thin as possible, and I mean EVERYTHING. Set up all your parts to be hollow with a wall thickness of 1mm max. Add some support structures here and there on the inside to keep it from warping.
    Have it printed and then mold and cast it.

    Printing a functional prop is going to cost you way more than you want. Print a "flimsy" master to mold, that will save you a whole lot of money and gives you the option to easily cast a few :)

    If you are willing to spend some time finishing it, you could also head over to 3Dhubs.com to find someone with a desktop printer near you to print it that way. The quality will be a lot better with shapeways, but printing the whole thing solid to finish and use as a single prop will be a lot cheaper through a random home printer.
     
  31. widescreen

    widescreen Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    566
    T5H - would you be interested in a joint merger with me.

    I have a Leapfrog HS Creatr 3D printer which could print this. Pretty much one of the best 3D printers of it's class on the market.

    I have started to model the blaster myself, but it's taking a lot of time - a lot of time, but you probably already know that. lol

    PM me if & we'll chat more if you are interested.
     
  32. JJ Griffin

    JJ Griffin Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,135
    $800 is about what we paid to have our Master blaster printed through Shapeways. Sounds about right.

    7HrNtcwh.jpg
     
    Unfated and Fly4v like this.
  33. Fly4v

    Fly4v Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,186
    If the problem is the initial $800 for the master, make Hasbro Nerf modification parts first. Once you have the money from that get your master and cast the completed ones for sale.

    The Nerf is up to $50 on Amazon.... order it from Walmart (Hint)... so people are buying the horridly off "deluxe" blaster.

    I would be happy to have a black trigger and magazine release, white solid ejection port cover and a black tip. All these parts are that awful orange plastic.
    Just so I can rant "the only thing that is required orange is the TIP! Stop making all those other parts ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Now returning to rational discussion.
    Could also add new accurate front sight, magazine base plate, power cylinders, new counter, charging handle, buffer tube and stock extension, and a new scope.
    After these parts are added the Nerf doesn't look bad.

    The market is there and someone will eventually make the parts for sale individually or as a kit.
    Why not use your already existing digital model and capitalize on your hard work?
     
    Inquisitor Peregrinus likes this.
  34. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,065
    As I was blanning to use E-11 scratchbuilding templates to take care of the main tube, what I am mainly in the market for is the add-on parts, available individually. Shapeways charges by the part, so there tends to be no cost saving in offering it as a set; and post-printing finishing work is handled by whoever gets that job, and they might do a great job or break things. I'd rather have to reorder one part than risk having to re-purchase a whole set if it goes to someone clumsy or indifferent for cleanup...

    I'd suggest the buttcap as one piece with the inner stock extension tube, closed at the back end; top rail as one piece; counter box as a two-piece set -- flat outer detail plate, and hollow open-face box with curved mount on the back for aligning and mounting to the tube; magazine and magazine port as a two-piece set, with the magazine open at the inner end for material escape; muzzle and front sight as one piece; redundant folding stock as a two-piece set; grip and trigger block as one piece, open at the top, with the trigger maybe as a separate piece... That sort of thing. And I agree -- definitely thin the walls down to 1/8" for the hollow pieces.

    --Jonah
     
  35. T5H

    T5H Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Lot of activity lately on this thread, sorry i neglected it. I have kept working on this 3D model to improve it ,so I have updated the picture on the first page to reflect that.

    To all of those who are interested in this design, it is now fully available for download here. However, i'm planning to update the model soon, with a reworked front hinge section, and a lot of small enhancements here and there.
    http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/32544-free-tfa-e-11-3d-printable-files-available-now/

    I am respecifying it here:
    "Indeed, now is time for the lame part. I've put a lot of time into this design and I obviously don't want to see someone appropriating him my work for profit. So I DO NOT GIVE ANYONE THE PERMISSION TO RECAST AND RESELL THIS DESIGN.
    You can print it for yourself, for your friends, and even recast it but ONLY for your local garrison, and friends. Hence, I don't want to see any sale threads on FISD, 501st board, RPF or else.

    Yeah, I know. What a dush."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  36. Fly4v

    Fly4v Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,186
    Yeah what a dush Thanks for the hard work and I hope that your request for no commercial sales is honored by all!
     
  37. ender9492

    ender9492 Member

    Trophy Points:
    191
    Hmm... You guys might wanna check out 3Dhubs and see what local services can print it for cheaper. There's a couple places near me that can print out the blaster in ABS for about $200-$300.
    3D printing doesn't have to be as expensive as the mainstream companies want you to believe. Really, you're only paying for the raw material and the operator's time (and maybe some assistance on fixing up the 3D models to print properly).
    Since I found 3Dhubs, I'll never go back to Shapeways.
     
  38. JJ Griffin

    JJ Griffin Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,135
    The difference e is the quality of the print. Places like Shapeways and Sculpteo use industrial-grade $100k sintered nylon, SLS, SLA printers, etc, instead of the consumer grade printers you will find from private vendors on 3DHubs. The difference in finish-- or rather, the significantly reduction in time spent post-processing them to a professional finish-- is night and day.

    It's more expensive through Shapeways but time = money and I'm happy paying twice as much if it means I only have to spend half as long bringing the prop to a finished state. Just my take, however.
     
    T5H likes this.
  39. Trooper_trent

    Trooper_trent Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,940
    Is the stock part of the model that you're trying to print? I'm like 100% sure they used ATI stocks for those. So you could take that off the model and just buy a stock to go with it.
     
  40. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,065
    Read through your progress on the FISD, Horseman. You truly do amazing work. I'm also liking the work Alain did to set it up for moving parts and electronics. I have to say, my preference would still be for each part or subassembly as a separate file so I am not constrained to print all of the blaster in one go. Partly because I still intend to use a metal tube for the base of the main body.

    --Jonah
     
  41. Valcrow

    Valcrow Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    412
    For largeish objects like a blaster, a consumer FDM printer would totally be able to give you good results IMO. I would leave the small, detailed, impossible shapes for shapeways.
     

Share This Page