Terminator 2 question

Contec

Master Member
Did the Arnolds terminator kill ANYONE in t2? I can't think of anyone... and yes i know he got his "Order" from john not to kill anyone but before that he did not do anything. He did not even "Kill" the T1000 because he was just blown to pieces and would have reformed if he had not lost his balance and fallen into the molten metal vat.
John did not kill anyone....neither did Sarah.
The only one that did kill anyone was the T1000. and maybe a few of the futurewar guys.
Damn.... the Kindergarden cop had more killings than "the greatest action movie"
 
I don't think anyone in the bar at the start died either. I know Cameron had a bug up his butt about making sure John didn't touch a gun and such. He kinda neutered the terminator.
 
Yeah! Always did me head in that! "promise you won't kill anyone!!" Still a good movie but sort of ruined the point of being a Terminator. Sometimes you just have to kill.
 
By allowing the Terminator to just kill at will, would have set a whole new set of problems.. They were trying to avoid the police, not bring more attention on them
 
Not sure how that neutered the Terminator. The T-1000 bad guy killed all over the place. Arny was programmed to be a good guy. It really makes perfect sense. If Arny was the bad one, I'm sure he would have killed. It's not like some lame crap where the Terminator DECIDED to be a nice guy. He was re-programmed.
 
Cameron says in the commentary on the Extreme DVD extended version that even before John gives him the order, he doesn't kill anyone and that Arnold kinda balked at the idea at first. So yeah, the Terminator basically failed to Terminate in that one. That whole commentary kinda lowered my opinion of the movie just because of how safe Cameron was trying to make everything.
 
Not sure how that neutered the Terminator. The T-1000 bad guy killed all over the place. Arny was programmed to be a good guy. It really makes perfect sense. If Arny was the bad one, I'm sure he would have killed. It's not like some lame crap where the Terminator DECIDED to be a nice guy. He was re-programmed.

Just because he is a "good guy" don't mean he should not be able to kill someone. Look at Robocop, he kills people and is still the good guy.

What did arnold do in that movie that made him an actionstar.
Just standing around shooting with a big gun and not hitting anyone..? shooting someone in the knees? oooohh that is so action heroish..:unsure
 
The answer to the question is "no." Basically, the idea was that he didn't want the "good guy" Terminator kill people, as by doing so would have resulted in people assuming that he was the bad guy. We know the T-1000 killed a couple of people in his pursuit of John.
 
Arnold didn't want to be seen as a bad guy. [he was thinking about politics you know.]

A terminator doesn't HAVE to kill. He didn't kill the guy by the phonebook, the Tech Noir bouncer, the cop 1-L-19, or the Semi-truck co-driver.

But he did kill the 3 punks to get their clothes. So he should have killed the bikers as well. [the novelization said the 3rd punk was killed after he handed over his clothes.]

As I'm writing this I had a thought. When he's in public he pulls back a bit. The 3 punks were alone. The bikers were in a room full of people. The bouncer was in a room full of people. The guy by the phone was in public. The gun store owner was alone. The cops in the police station were 'alone'. The 2 guys by the liquor store were alone.
 
Just because he is a "good guy" don't mean he should not be able to kill someone. Look at Robocop, he kills people and is still the good guy.

What did arnold do in that movie that made him an actionstar.
Just standing around shooting with a big gun and not hitting anyone..? shooting someone in the knees? oooohh that is so action heroish..:unsure

Robocop killed BAD guys. Who did Arny fight in T2? A bunch of cops, mainly. I think it would have made the movie pretty morally ambiguous if Arny had been gunning down police officers as the "good guy." They made the right call.
 
He only killed himself. I know he said he couldn't self terminate but he allowed himself to be destroyed and even helped by climbing onto the chain. How the hell that isn't considered self termination is beyond me.
 
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Well... he'd been re-programmed, sure... but up until the point where John gives him the order not to kill people... what was really holding him back, since he was clearly questioning the order or why it was important. It would have given the confrontation a lot more weight when John stopped him and ordered him not to kill anyone, if he had in fact indiscriminately killed someone previously.

As it is in the movie, there really is no change between before and after the order to not kill anyone. The only one he actually tried to kill was that guy trying to help John... but the reason he decided to try to kill him doesn't make sense except to create the basis for that order to be given.

The only reason I can think of why he doesn't kill anyone is because future John had it re-programmed that way... but then... why did it try to kill that guy trying to save John? Doesn't make sense.
 
This is actually 'the great thing' about T2 for me, the fact that it has no really 'unnecessary' violence. the good guys are actually good guys, unlike the people in many Bruckheimer and Bay movies who threat innocent bystanders the same way I treated toy cars as a 12 year old. And it's a good point about John having reprogrammed him in the future, but he may have just told him to not kill any 'innocent' people, and 'Arnold' didn't really see how the guy who attacked John was innocent, so he thought he'd go for it.
One more interesting thing about T2 I'm not sure anyone has dicussed before though. -The 'terminator' stays with John the whole time and protects him, while his mom runs off to try and 'terminate' the guy making the terminators...think about it for a second. And that goes to all Bladerunner fans too... :)
 
It's the moral issue at work.

I think the point is that it is an "us against them" (humans vs machines) bottom line.

So--- Arnie2 may have been reprogrammed (as has been mentioned already) to obtain the necessary clothes, weapons and a vehicle to begin his mission but not to kill anyone in the process. This is why everyone at the bar survived.

Young John reinforces this with the "You can't kill anyone" order.

The point being that if the Terminator were allowed to randomly kill at will- it reduces the humans controlling the Terminator to the same level of the machines themselves- being cold and calculating.


Why did he try to shoot the black guy? Well John initially ordered the Terminator to grab the long haired jock for calling him a name :)rolleyes). The black guy "attacked" the Terminator, so I assume it went into self defense mode and planned to "terminate the threat".

Now the point of the "***** you were going to kill that guy!" scene was a set up so the movie doesn't become a cute "Me and My Terminator" buddy film. John finds out very quickly that The Terminator isn't a toy to mess around with. And John does some growing up within a few seconds going from "This is the coolest thing EVAR!" to "Holy ****! I'd better not screw around- this thing is dangerous!"


One of the themes of T2 is "life is precious". That was the point behind John freaking out when Sarah sets off to kill Dyson, and the Terminator agreeing that killing Dyson may prevent the war.

Sarah has her own breakdown when she realizes she nearly became what they are attempting to stop- she nearly killed a man in an effecient terminator-like fashion and would have committed murder in the name of "changing the future".

That is what the machines have been doing all along. We're supposed to be better than that. Otherwise instead of sending a Terminator back to protect John, why not just send it back to kill the guy who invented Skynet? Fight fire with fire? No because all human life is precious. And it takes a great deal more intelligence to "figure a way out of this mess" without simply resorting to "superior firepower."


But I suppose the movie would have been better if the "good guy" killed dozens of cops who were just doing their job? Really?

They probably spent the rest of their lives in wheelchairs after getting kneecapped. Good enough?



Kevin
 
Too Much Garlic, I hear you. He could have killed people before John ordered him not to. He just happened not to, I guess.

This is nowhere near as troubling as how the T-1000 time travels (which I brought up in another thread). The movie's good enough that I give it a pass on a lot of stuff. If the movie had sucked, I guess I could rip it apart, but I'm cool with it.
 
The kinder gentler more humanized Terminator was a great dissappointment to me.
It was more then just being programmed not to kill.

"Why do you cry?"
 
I guess I'm just a sucker for the robot-develops-empathy thing. T2, Robocop, BladeRunner in a way, hell, I can't watch the Iron Giant without openly weeping. Personal preference, I guess. They all boil down to variations on the Frankenstein story, which if you haven't read is fantastic.
 
I can overlook most of the flaws with this movie... but my own personal locking onto the time-travel concept shown in the first one... somewhat makes this one... annoying. But that is partly due to my own demented self putting limitations on things for no real reason, instead of just enjoying the movie for what it is... a good action movie, with pretty much all the cool stuff that I love.

However... T1 is the one for me. The rest just doesn't reach it.
 
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