T1 and T2 Endoskeleton Research Thread

Yeah, the movie ones had the thin palm piece.

The "piston" pieces are also on T2 hands. But I am not sure if T2 also started using the ones seen on the LFS kit - simplified versions with the grooves at the ends sanded down. I was planning on adding the grooves back in on the models I made from the LFS ones.
I think there are 3 different styles of T2 hands, so it depends on what you're trying to replicate. There are super simplified rubber hands/forearms that were used on many of the endoskeletons with really garbage looking piston/rod attachments (static with no motion), then there's a mid-tier I've seen that has better looking pistons and rod attachments and might be capable of finger articulation (might have only facilitated posing from scene to seen... unsure). Then there are the hero style hands with all the extra curves, grooves, and real cabling that make them possible to puppeteer. The Endo arm in the vault is a hero style (until it smashes into the ground and swaps to a rubber version for a bit). The arm we see when Arnold peels his skin off is a hero style arm, and it the full Endoskeleton at Lightstorm has hero style hands.

I know this because I researched it to death when I modeled my T2 Hero style hands.

-Dana
 
Cool. Yeah... we are trying to replicate the hero style.

Did you see the T1 lower arm castings at Bob Burns? Wonder what they made them for.
Yes, I saw, handled, and photographed it. It's a plastic casting.
IMG_4672.JPG

-Dana
 
How did you angle things so that the top pistons are placed wider than the bottom pistons?
The alignment of the upper/lower toe piston rods is a real problem. You're right about that!

Let me start by saying that I am VERY convinced that the LFS foot/heel castings we have (or even Icons ones) do not match most of what I see in T1/T2 parts. I am guessing these were built from scratch at some point. Here's a photo of two that I have from my Endoskeleton kit that are similar but also different:
unnamed (4).jpg

unnamed.jpg

The underside of the feet in T1 and T2 seem to have 5 individual "clevis" parts that each toe somehow mount to. Not this monolithic/simplified bar. The upper pistons connections also are much more complicated with what looks like a separate piece with 5 mounting "bushings" that are all welded on with different angles to splay the toes. It is sandwiched between the upper and lower metal plates of the heel. Lots of welding and weirdness makes the feet and hands work.

You can see gaps between each clevis even in various photos like these:
Untitled-2.png
T2 - Endoskeleton - Prop - Feet - 02 - 02.jpg

I bring this up, because I also think the dimensions of those connecting clevis pieces under the foot are different than what we see/measure on the LFS parts.

So, when you ask how I solved it. I haven't fully. I have the middle 3 toes close, and the outer (big and little toe) are still off by a good amount. I'm also thinking they may have cheated and used the slop in some of the pivot points or underside shafts to "bend" things to fit. We'll likely never know.

I also think the cylindrical part of the heel that juts out and taper toward the ball was somewhat inaccurately replicated. It's ok, but I think the length, angle to the ground, and some other nonsense was altered. Some of it may also be responsible for the "high heel" look we all don't like. So I tried to improve that as well while I was reworking my heel part.

-Dana
 
Yeah, a lot of things were simplified for the LFS kits - either the normal alteration done to distinguish from original castings, or to make things easier to mold and cast. Or, it was idiosyncracies seen on the endoskeleton used to mold and make casts from. Though. The LFS kit is not from just 1 source. It seems to be from several different sources, with some cast from screen used thrown in here and there. There's definitely some T2:3D store front endo parts in there, even parts manufactured specifically for that piece. There are a few pieces from the endo seen in T2 lying damaged and being shot, but I only identified the battery cover and feet (piston parts). Uncertain about the back torso piece. Chest looks T2:3D storefront.

Having the pistons on the feet done solid non-functional will make it easier to bend the bottom ones into their slots. You see they are fake on the Lightstorm endo, but I can't tell if they are functional or fake on the T1.

I was thinking... maybe the arms seen at Bob Burns came from a mold that made the blow-up endo at the end of T1?
 
Yeah, a lot of things were simplified for the LFS kits - either the normal alteration done to distinguish from original castings, or to make things easier to mold and cast. Or, it was idiosyncracies seen on the endoskeleton used to mold and make casts from. Though. The LFS kit is not from just 1 source. It seems to be from several different sources, with some cast from screen used thrown in here and there. There's definitely some T2:3D store front endo parts in there, even parts manufactured specifically for that piece. There are a few pieces from the endo seen in T2 lying damaged and being shot, but I only identified the battery cover and feet (piston parts). Uncertain about the back torso piece. Chest looks T2:3D storefront.

Having the pistons on the feet done solid non-functional will make it easier to bend the bottom ones into their slots. You see they are fake on the Lightstorm endo, but I can't tell if they are functional or fake on the T1.

I was thinking... maybe the arms seen at Bob Burns came from a mold that made the blow-up endo at the end of T1?
I think you're right about the Bob Burns hand, looks similar to the explosion scene:
IMG_4669.JPG

And here's 2 frames from the latest 4K bluray (I just bought it recently):
The Terminator 4K (1984).mkv_20250123_104226.653.png

The Terminator 4K (1984).mkv_20250123_104230.710.png

If you look closely, it appears his right arm has the same "webbing" connecting the fingers. They look to have painted it black so that it looks like the fingers are fully separated, but when the bomb goes off you see no light coming through the fingers at that part of the hand. Like the Bob Burns casting... maybe? Certainly not a complicated articulated hand like whatever the Tested hand was.

-Dana
 
Looking at the T1 foot above. Are the fork heads the bottom pistons connect to the same, or similar style, as the ones at the top pistons connecting to the foot piece? They kinda look the same.

Sorry for the crude encirclings.

Untitled-2.png
 
And another thing. I often wondered if the LFS heel part of the ankle was added upside down, so the angle was steeper?

If cutting it off, rotating it 180°, would it then sit right?

unnamed (4).jpg
 
Looking at the T1 foot above. Are the fork heads the bottom pistons connect to the same, or similar style, as the ones at the top pistons connecting to the foot piece? They kinda look the same.

Sorry for the crude encirclings.

View attachment 1898392
I don't think the bottom clevis parts match the ones you circled. They don't seem to have the same length or bevels. I DO think that they may be the same parts as the ones closer to the toe ends:
Untitled-1.png

And I've found this little dot, or circular hole on the sides that seem to be on both.
Untitled-2.png

Those dots show up on several resin castings of feet that I have seen from T2.

-Dana
 
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And another thing. I often wondered if the LFS heel part of the ankle was added upside down, so the angle was steeper?

If cutting it off, rotating it 180°, would it then sit right?

View attachment 1898395
I don't think it's on "backwards" I think the heel is from a different generation of Endoskeleton. As you mentioned some parts came from different places... who knows. I can roughly rotate it in photoshop to give you an idea of how it would look though:
unnamed (4).png

Yuck! That other angle you thought might go up against the underside of the foot plate is just for the shin pole that they were using for the endoskeletons to stand without an armature in the pelvis holding it up. So, I don't know if SWS made a set of feet like this for the endoskeletons they were retiring and turning into free-standing display pieces like the one in Japan and Lightstorm. Mystery.

-Dana
 
I still can't get over how good that foot model is. Wish I could sculpt like that.

Did you get the video I uploaded a while back showing close-ups of the T1 endoskeleton and especially the feet? I noticed in that that the bevels on the forks weren't the same width on all of them. They got smaller out towards the little toe.
 
Also, the angle if the big toe outer fork - the one connecting to the toe bit - should not be as steeply angled as the rest of the toes. I tried finding my models to show, but I don't have pictures of those saved on my phone, so was trying to find them in the thread. Found this one so far. Trying to find a better picture:

 
Well thanks! I've still got work to do on it. But making progress. You'll get better the longer you're at it and take on challenging models. I began my 3D art career over 25 years ago AND I did it professionally in the video game industry. I do hard surface modeling like this in Fusion360. It's all parametric CAD style modeling which makes it easier to change and dimension everything.

For instance, I looked at those clevis (fork) bevels... and in my ref I can definitely see larger bevels on the big toe. But to me it looks like the other 4 toes have similar sized bevels. So I just changed that with a few numbers typed in.

WIP_T1_Endo_Foot_02.png

Also, I got those "tendon turnbuckles" under the foot blocked in and roughly positioned. I'll be refining the foot more and I also need to make all of the universal joints.

I'm not sure which video you mean, are you referring to that Stan Winston Japanese laser disc video? If so, I've seen that.

-Dana
 
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This post shows pictures of the foot I'm talking about. Is that from the laserdisc documentary you've seen?

 
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