Studio scale TIE wing thickness info if you can

greeble_gremlin

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The notches were for a "keyed fit".
They were more for the Virtual Kool Shade version of a build which would have been cast from very Hi-Rez 3D print.
Ultimately we went a slightly different route with the VKS but they do go together now more like a hero kit (with real Kool Shade) rather than a single piece solid cast wing. The WingStars attached separately over the VKS cast portion/core. As I said these were made almost 10 years ago.
At the time we could not 3D Print a large enough section of VKS but within just 2-3 years later that changed... it got a bit cheaper to print too.
I do not think there would be anything to gain trying to "key' the real Kool-shade... you would only end up mutilating the louvres.

It would be interesting to test if the Kool Shade could be cut effectively with a water-jet cutter.
Unfortunately, I do not have enough extra to spare for such experimentation.
Perhaps if I could get some of the modern stuff. It may make nice clean cuts without bending the louvers as with shears.
The water jet does have abrasive residue.; in which one might run the risk of scratching of the finish in places.
 

greeble_gremlin

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I have not had any experience laser cutting metal.
Flyscriber do you think it could be cut that way?
...probably have a problem with the focal point of the beam. Kool Shade is almost 1/8" inch deep/thick
doubtful it would lay perfectly flat on the bed anyway.

I guess I am musing about this;:eek: as I get terrified a the thought making a mistake cutting the KoolShade I have left!
I don't even want to think about the per square foot cost.:confused:
 

Flyscriber

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awesome images Jason, thanks for posting those, and everyone else who has posted, this thread has helped me out a bunch.

Greeble_gremlin
The main issue with the laser cutting is holding the koolshade in position whist being cut. The focal point doesn't become an issue until you get to about 8mm thick, then the lower edge of the cut can become a little uneven, but is easy to clean up with a file if needed. Also I didn't want to trust the alignment of the koolshade wire lines and direction of the mesh to the factory, as there is only enough koolshade for one hit at the panels.
I am planning to use an angle grinder. I know it sounds a bit manic, but the high speed of the 1m wide metal slitting disk requires very little pressure to remove material which keeps the cool shade unaffected in direction and angle of the vanes. I have tied this a couple of times on portions of koolshade which were too creased to use and it works fine with a slow and steady hand, even diagonally across the vanes.
I will use a steel1 inch angle as a straight edge for the grinder to follow which will also clamp the material down (ish) keeping it flat along the cut.
That's the plan anyhow !! The proof of the pudding will come soon.
 

JLinNY

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Awesome, awesome thread!! This is going to help me so much if I ever get around to building Steve's kit. Outstanding photos Moff, thanks so much for posting.
 

Flyscriber

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Hey folks.
Ive just been checking my DXF file against the actual wing stars.
Am I correct that the lower horizontal edge of the wingstars are about 2mm further from the horizontal center line than the top ? meaning the lower half of the wings are 2mm longer than the top.
It looks to be intentional on the moulding. Please can you let me know if I am correct about this, as I will be sending the cutting file soon, or are the original wings completely symmetrical about horizontal and verticle. Or, does this matter at all ??? :)

Hers a quick pic to help you see what I am going on about.


Cheers folks

+2mm bottom.jpg
 

swgeek

Sr Member
Well they were hand cut at the time (no laser cutting/3D printing) so I'm sure they aren't perfectly symmetrical but they do need to line up pretty well back to back. I didn't notice a big difference in top to bottom when I drew mine but of course I couldn't find a good straight on view to use without the pylon cover. So I have no way of knowing where exactly the center hole was.
 

Flyscriber

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That sounds awesome Jason, who knows what gems you might uncover. Bring it on :). I am 99% sure I will be reverting back to symmetry for the laser cut center panel and the rib supports.
 

Flyscriber

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laser cut parts.jpg
taping 4m holes also 3mm holes on tips of koolshade spacers.jpg
csk holes.jpg
outer side csk screws.jpg
koolshade template test fit.jpg
wing right assembly after recessing.jpg
Hi folks. Well, things are going nicely on the wing front so far.
All panels are laser cut and look great.
Some info for anyone who may have something like this done in the future. Laser cutting metal will harden the edges where the metal is melted away during the cut, this gives a hardened edge to all cuts. So if you are planning to thread any holes, always undersize them on the file and manually drill them out to the correct diameter for your chosen tap. This will stop you snapping taps on the toughened edge of the steel.
Anyhow, after drilling and taping all the threads, the outer surface holes were countersunk to partly hide the screws, leaving a small amount of the head protruding on the outer surface. The undercuts around each protruding countersunk head will "key" the epoxy to the metal on final assembly.
They all fit perfectly, the H strip just clicks into position over the koolshade spacer layer. I am very happy with this so far.

So heres a few shots of the stainless steel parts and assembly for you delectation.
I will post more as the wings develop.
Todays job is cutting a test kolshade panel for thickness testing and possible slide in fixing. As I am thinking I may insert the koolshade as a taper fit sliding it under a completed wingstar assembly, then adding the edges last to encapsulate the whole thing.

I have one really important question for all you folks in the know.
What colour should the background "inner layer behind the koolshade be ?
I am guessing matt back. Any thoughts or facts gratefully received.
 
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Flyscriber

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Ive cut the first test panel from a portion of the koolshade roll which wasn't up to scratch (too creased for main finished panels). I used an angle grinder with a 1 slitting disk, and the results were perfect first time. NO deflection of the vanes at all, actually it was no effort to cut, and the grinder just followed the template easily. I have no hesitation in recommending this method. Here are some pics of the cut koolshade panel.
cut edge 2.jpg
cut koolshade edge.jpg
edge thickness.jpg
cut edge 2.jpg
cut koolshade edge.jpg
edge thickness.jpg


Just another question for you guys.
Do the vanes slope towards the center of the wing, or toward the edge. Im having issues seeing it in reference images so far.
cheers everyone.
 
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vectorzero

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I think Jason posted this a while ago.

Quote:

Louvers face \\\\\ when viewing from the front, with longest outer spar facing upwards, so the louvers all radiate inward as you go around the "clock". So 12 o'clock is \\\\\ and 6 o'clock is ///// when viewed head on.
 

moffeaton

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Screen Shot 2018-12-18 at 12.23.12 PM.png
I am getting closer to the wing star dimensions... the ANH wing star pattern pretty much lays perfectly over Gawley's blueprint, length and angle-wise. The red outline is the eFX/Neisen wingstars - incredibly close!
 

greeble_gremlin

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FlyScriber,
Sweet! and Hardcore!
I"m curious, what where the thickness' of the metal you used?
Regarding the finish of the inside piece, I ended up with a flat black.

Though, though initially I had vain imaginings (for my own build) to get the aluminium "core' piece black-anodized. It would have had a nice iridescent quality. This proved impractical as there were too many minor scuffs/scratches on the metal sheet. Easily hidden of by a coat of black primer and some wet sanding before a final coat of paint.
It would have been nice to add a brushed metal effect in directions parallel to the KoolShade braided wires. but this too was impractical to mask-off one "triangle" at a time and use a small belt sander. That would have gone well with an anodized treatment
Also the anodizing was way too pricey.
I know they did nothing like this on the real miniatures, but this thing will be sitting in my office subjected to close scrutiny (chiefly by me).
As i said I had to sand the inner "channel of H_Beam to make room for the aluminium core and Kool-Shade. That was a real pain. I suspect you can go with a thinner gauge of stainless steel for the same amount of strength


-Nice treatment with the tap & dye.
I doubt those wings will ever warp.
 
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greeble_gremlin

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Jason,

-How do the dimensions of the Wingstar shapes I sent you back in 2011(2012??) compare to your new findings?


We took those measurements off an original TIE used in ANH back in 2009 (now in a private collection)

The dimensions of the EFX TIE wings differ slightly unfortunately, from the 2D shapes I sent you.
We sent corrections to the firm after evaluating their CAD files, before they committed to the final design and before they began tooling for the injection molds.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason they chose to disregard the corrections. If you look close too, the EFX wings "taper" in thickness as they proceed away from the central hub.
I actually like this feature, but the originals remained the same thickness throughout the whole wing.
In my experience dealing with those overseas firms in China almost always proves problematic at one stage or another.
The same thing happened with the Moebieus TOS Glactica Viper.
 
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greeble_gremlin

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I do not mean to usurp this thread.
I checked but I think the original RPF post and the old link to these files are gone.
At any rate, these files and their dimensions are out in common circulation by now.
Initially any one buying one of Nice-en's revised SS "Hero"TIE kits (from circa 2010 on) was given these PDF files to help them cut the Kool-Shade triangles and inner membranes.
I think that practice fell by the wayside.
So here are the 2D Wing & Wingstar files for the Studio Scale "Hero" TIE fighter once again

WingStar_Diagram_[Final]3-20-2010.jpgWingStar_Triangles_[Final]3-20-2010.jpgWingStar_Inner Membrane_[Final]3-20-2010.jpg

I also made a diagram to help with the miter cuts of the Plastruct... not sure if I still have that file?
I will have to look thru by back-ups
 

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Flyscriber

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Guys, please don't worry about usurping this thread, all this info is the reason I asked, so please crack on with the usurping.
Awesome images Jason, loving all the info and images of other SS Tie stuff.
To answer the metal thickness info,
The centre (full size) plate between the koolshade is 0.9mm in thickness,
The star shapes screwed to the centre plate are 2mm.
The vinyl under each koolshade panel is aprox 0.15mm,
which gives a very small amount of clearance for the koolshade which seems to be about 1.7mm in thickness.
If the koolshade seems a little loose on final test assembly, I will add another layer of vinyl to tighten the gap.
The edge of the wingstar where it meets the H strip needs to be thinned on the mitred areas by the thickness of the edge of the H strip (about 1mm), as per the reference images , and it clips over the metal perfectly.
All on track for a pretty bomb proof set of wings so far.
Thanks for all the info so far folks. Its always a pleasure.
Oh !! Happy Christmas as well. :)
side black.jpg
vinyl inserts.jpg

koolshade insert.jpg
koolshade root.jpg
 
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