Student needing opinions for Bigfoot research paper.

Discussion in 'Replica Costumes' started by jedichase, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. jedichase

    jedichase Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hello everybody,

    I'm currently working on my final research paper in a writing class. The paper has to argue for or against a debatable topic. The topic I chose was the existence of Bigfoot. My paper will be supporting the existence of Bigfoot. While examining the world famous Paterson Film (image below) I had the thought, "hey I wonder if RPF'ers think it was possible for a costume like this to be made in 1967." So here is my question for the costume experts of the RPF.

    Do you think that a costume replicating the image below could have been made in 1967? Please give your honest opinion.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for reading and any opinions given.
     
  2. Megamicrofish

    Megamicrofish Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes I do, and hasn't this film been debunked a thousand times already ?
     
  3. jedichase

    jedichase Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Though many people have claimed to be the person in the suit, there has never been anyone who has kept their story straight or have any strong evidence supporting their accusation. So it really has never been confirmed for either side.
     
  4. Nobby

    Nobby Sr Member

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    of course the costume could have been made back then. Just look what they did with Planet of the Apes (1968)

    It's only a man in a rug :D
     
  5. The BDK

    The BDK Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The footage has to my knowledge never been definitivley debunked.

    There's been people come forth and claim to be the person in the suit but they have no evidence to support it. So that parts up in the air. I'm still at the 50/50 on real or faked. Google search it and you'll find arguments going every direction from they can see muscle movement to you can see a zipper. Personally its too blurry for me to see any of that such stuff.

    Now, as to could it have been done back then with the materials and knowledge of the time?

    Of course, its not all that far away from something like the Planet of the Apes costumes or King Kong suit used by Toho for Godzilla and King Kong Escapes,
     
  6. Mullreel

    Mullreel Well-Known Member

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    Here is an argument for the existence. Even though I personally don't believe Bigfoot exists.

    I live in Texas. There are approx. a billion (not an actual factual number, just saying there is a lot) coyotes in Texas, yet how often does the average person see one. The answer is not often. So if Bigfoot was in small numbers how often would they be seen.

    and..........discuss.
     
  7. Sean Hebein

    Sean Hebein Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Bigfoot is Laffo. Didn't you guys know that?
     
  8. The BDK

    The BDK Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There is such a discussion in the OT somewhere, I remember arguing for its existance against Def.
     
  9. Nobby

    Nobby Sr Member

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    since there have been people searching for him for decades with no real proof of existence I have to say............................... FAKE :D
     
  10. Laffo

    Laffo Sr Member

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    Yes. I built one this year and it only cost $500. Stan Winston answered this exact question in on the series Movie Magic. He says it was a "bad suit."

    And it's either true or false entirely depending on what you want to believe. If you want to believe it is conclusive evidence, you'll find every reason to focus on the arguments that support it being an animal. Conversely the same is true if you think it's a hoax. Neither side has proven anything, though the Hoax position has gotten stronger since 2000.

    Now I've spent, literally hours and hours watching every analysis and stabilized version of the footage, and this is the problem I have:
    The bottom of the foot.

    Watch it here:
    2:30
    Patterson Gimlin Bigfoot Gait Analysis

    The monsters palms and the soles of it's feet do not match. There is not a mammal alive who's soles and palms do not match. I've also been to the area. The dirt and mud up there is a blue/gray and a sandy clay.

    The Patterson Film, Patterson/Gimlin Film of Bigfoot Sasquatch

    This article talks about the ability of the soil to hold footprints. The feet would not be caked with a light color mud then. A soft dry cohesive soil is what makes a good footprint. Even wet, there would be no transfer.

    But to prove my point, where that throws up a flag for me, it proves the films' validity for others:
    White feet?

    Laffo.
     
  11. Laffo

    Laffo Sr Member

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  12. Contec

    Contec Master Member

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    It's clearly chewbacca..
     
  13. Atlanthia

    Atlanthia Sr Member

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    In my humble opinion, there is EVERY possibility that several variatons of this creature exist in the Arctic circle. There are VAST areas of land that have still not had more than a cursory exploration: Northern Canada, Siberian Tundra, The Himalayas, Even North China!

    I DON'T, however, believe that the footage you show that we all know so well is genuine. It's like the Roswell alien autopsy film. Clever but fakeroony! The perp will eventually come forward in the next ten or so years on their deathbed and admit it, because that's what fakers do. They always come clean just before they peg off so that they can bask in the limelight of their own cleverness and go out in a blaze of glory...
    Time will tell either way....
     
  14. Vermithrax 4

    Vermithrax 4 Well-Known Member

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    I still hold that this footage is real. Could such a suit have been made back then? Sure...but only by the likes of John Chambers or Dick Smith and it would have cost a pretty penny. A couple of woodsmen wanting to play a prank just could not have pulled this off. The creature in the footage has never looked like a man in a suit to me, you can see musculature under that fur, the fur is tight over the body, it's black speckled with gray, not loose or uniform in color like a rental gorilla suit would be at that time. Those guys would had to have had a muscle suit made to fit under the fur suit and again I don't think they had that capability. Plus, the creature has *. Show me any prankster who would have thought to make their creature female. Too much of a longshot. It walks quickly over rough terrain, again not possible by a man in a fur suit and a rubber mask, he would have tripped up or had to walk slowly and carefully. The head turns too smoothly, not like a man wearing a monkey mask.

    Phil Morris of Morris Costumes has claimed for years that he was the one these guys rented the suit from but Phil is an old magician and trickster himself and loves to tell fibs for the sake of publicity. Wonderful man, Phil, I just happen to think he's fibbing through his teeth in this case, plus he's never produced the actual suit as proof.
     
  15. sterling archer

    sterling archer Active Member

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    I do believe a costume could have been made in the 60's to look like Bigfoot.With the use of real fur,no synthetics like what we have today,it could easily be made by anyone with experience.Who or how, may never be found,but to use an example the Cowardly Lion suit from the Wizard of OZ was made from real lion pelts and that was from the 30's.
     
  16. Atlanthia

    Atlanthia Sr Member

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    It could even have been made by an eccentric film producer with more LSD than sense. OOps! I meant to say more MONEY than sense. Normally, the richer someone is, the more nuts they become!:lol
     
  17. Onigiri

    Onigiri Sr Member

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    Dunno but what I DO know is that as a kid going to summer camp in the mountains of Washington State we found footprints by the Wallace River. I didnt even know what Bigfoot was (I was 10 at the time). What was interesting is that one of the feet only had 4 toes. The little toe was missing. Anyway, the counselors made plaster casts and called the park rangers.
     
  18. RAGE88

    RAGE88 Member

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    I think that the very fact that nobody has EVER discovered remains makes it highly unlikely that they exist.

    As for the film... I think its a fake (personally) I want to believe... but at a distance on that film grade... the costume doesn't need to be that great... its not like today where everything is HD.
     
  19. Onigiri

    Onigiri Sr Member

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    The remains issue is an interesting one. One of the latest docs had these researchers stake out a freshly roadkilled deer. They put it under a time lapse camera. They said they expected it to take up to 7 weeks for the carcass to disappear. It took less then a week. This was in the mountains of the Pacific NW. We find deer remains because deer are extremely common so thats going to happen by sheer numbers from time to time. When it comes to something like this which is purportedly in vastly smaller numbers in the mountains its not surprising. If it IS some sort of primitive man with a culture they might also have primitive burial making it even less likely to stumble on a body.
     
  20. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Sr Member

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    2OO1's ape suits were fabricated in 65/66.
     
  21. PR85

    PR85 New Member

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    ...This made my day...
     
  22. RAGE88

    RAGE88 Member

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    It made me believe that we have an alien caught on film... and not a saskquatch.

    debate that :eek
     
  23. Laffo

    Laffo Sr Member

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    Oni is 100% correct.

    My Brother is a pathologist for the State of Florida and NOAA, with his concentration being Sea Turtles. He was the head pathologist on the Deepwater Horizon spill. When Louisiana opened up the shrimp fisheries early to beat the oil, they did so on top of the turtle egg laying season. The turtle kill was massive. Even though the two weeks before the spill they had 1000 turtles in their lab (compared to 80 they get for a year normally), my brother said that's 1/2 of 1% of the animals actually killed. That's just simply the only ones that could be found.

    That they get remains of any kind out of the woods or ocean after 3 days is highly unlikely. Especially if the animal is desirable to scavengers.

    Humans are not desirable, we smell like humans, that's why we tend to lay out there undisturbed. Felines aren't that desirable either.

    We live where the Whitetail population, in some areas, is approaching 5 deer a square mile, and where there is now no limit on the number you can kill. Even with that population density I haven't run up on a deer carcass in 3 years. I haven't run up on a complete one in 15.

    The absence of remains is not conclusive at all.

    Laffo.
     
  24. Onigiri

    Onigiri Sr Member

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    I would also like to relate a story as to how my old sensei in Seattle and his wife decided to go camping in the vicinity of 'Ape Canyon'. I told him that was the original Bigfoot hotspot and he just laughed at me. He and his wife spent all night sitting back to back in their tent with pistols drawn because of 'howling' and rocks hitting their tent. They got out of there 1st thing in the morning. Not much scares this guy but Ape Canyon scared the crap out of him. He grew up in Arizona and said it definitely wasnt coyotes and it was more an escalating 'yell/scream' and it really messed with him. Wat scared him even more was the fact that whatever or whoever was messing with them was close enough to hit the hit the tent with thrown rocks. He's not claiming Bigfoot he's just claiming that something scared the carp out of them that night and he has no desire to ever go back there.
     
  25. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    I personally do not believe in bigfoot but I did watch a documentary on this famous piece of film footage you have shown a still from.

    After watching the documentary there are quite a few things that were pointed out about the movement of the bigfoot and the proportions of it that made it appear more feal than fake.

    Not sure how biased the documentary was although the scientists did seem pretty impartial.

    Oh and they also interviewed Hollywood prop guys of the time and they said they could not have made an outfit that moved like this. Again that was only the opinion of one man.

    Cheers Chris
     
  26. Cal

    Cal Well-Known Member

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    I personally believe it's one of those times where they did everything in such a way it fools your eye into seeing things that are not there because of the poor quality of the film. It's hard to dismiss or prove because, there are to many things left without clear answers, and to many what if's.

    The existence of a creature this size is definitely possible, but no-one can say for certain that what is in the film is a new species biped mammal native to the U.S. It just seems unlikely.
     
  27. SiliconRiot

    SiliconRiot New Member

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    There is an article in an old Cinefex..not sure of the issue I'll try to find it where John Landis talks about when he was working on the lot as a runner and he walked past John Chambers makeup room, they were working on a similar suit and talking about setting up a friend. There is also a popular story that Rick Baker knows more details about the story directly from John Chambers....:cool
     
  28. SiliconRiot

    SiliconRiot New Member

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  29. SiliconRiot

    SiliconRiot New Member

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  30. Onigiri

    Onigiri Sr Member

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    Well that was yet another article that started with everyone 'knowing' that Chambers made it to Chambers himself denying it and folks like Rick Baker recanting their story.
     
  31. SiliconRiot

    SiliconRiot New Member

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  32. RAGE88

    RAGE88 Member

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    The whole decomposition issue is interesting. Never thought of it like that. I still contend that in this day and age and in populated areas like North America, that it would be hard (not impossible) but hard for these things to exist without being noticed or caught on a video camera or phone or something.
     
  33. Laffo

    Laffo Sr Member

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    How much time have you spent in the old growth Pacific Northwest? The Okefenokee? The Everglades? You'd realize right quick that there's all the chance in the world these things could be in there and not get seen. There are parts of Yellowstone that are just NOW being mapped. They have found 200 waterfalls over 50 feet that no knew existed, in the last 10 years in the Park.
    A Park that attracts millions of visitors a year.

    Yellowstone Waterfalls

    Until 4 years ago the existence of Reticulated Pythons in the Everglades was unsubstantiated, and now their population is so large they are showing up everywhere. Plus they are now big enough to eat crocodilians.

    It is very possible for a species to survive and flourish in the Americas and we not know about it.

    That doesn't mean there IS, just means this Country is a lot bigger and a hell of a lot more remote in areas than you give it credit for.

    Laffo.
     
  34. clonesix

    clonesix Sr Member

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    The evidence of existence is not necessarily require a visual sighting. Something that big (or any size for that matter) needs to eat. It probably needs to eat every day. Even if it eats only plants, it needs to eat. It must eat a certain percentage of its body weight to live. Even 1% of a 200 lb beast is 2 lb/day. That's 750 lbs worth of plant material being torn up, pulled down, broken off each year. You think someone would find evidence of this somewhere? They haven't

    If it eats animals, it must hunt for the animal and kill it. It must leave its hiding place long enought to hunt and kill an animal. It either eats it there, or hauls it back to its hiding place. Either way, it doesn't eat the bones. so they would be left behind. Has anyone found the remains of the meal? No. Bone that they do find, they can directly attribute to the bear or other animal that killed it by the tracks, bite markes, etc.

    Next, If an animal eats, it also poops. Most animals * every day. Most * dries up and doesn't necesssarily wash away. The size and shape of the * will tell you whether it was deer, bear, dog, etc. Do you think a "Bigfoot" makes big *? Everyday? Over the past 100 years? Has anyone ever found bigfoot *?


    No tracks, No food source, and no *. = Doesn't exist.
     
  35. PoopaPapaPalps

    PoopaPapaPalps Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'll believe anything if you bring me a carcass of said thing. Your paper should petition to form a party for the protection and preservation of paranormal critters via killing them. Think of the justice that could be done for the species if we kill some for study. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few dozen," is how the old saying goes, I believe.
     
  36. Laffo

    Laffo Sr Member

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    See the post above yours.

    The diet and feeding patterns you list are complete conjecture. You argue there's no way for it to exist and list possible diets, ignoring the possibility that it's an omnivore. Which is likely. Solitary omnivores leave little sign, especially very timid omnivores. Therefore we have no idea what sign it would leave.

    There are plenty of mammals and birds that DO EAT bones and teeth on a kill. We've already discussed why the remains of a Bigfoot may not be found. A kill site is no different.

    We also don't know if it buries it's scat. Many animals do. We have a Barn Cat. I never see it's craps or remains of all the Mice it eats. Does that mean that it doesn't exist?

    Laffo.
     

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