Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Jaitea]

Its already been mentioned that the Falcon was already available as a rendered model asset by somebody ( but not in this thread) when discussing teaser trailer two and his credibility is 100%. .

It is worth noting that this render of the Falcon that has appeared in the trailers & on the cover of the Fortune magazine is completely new & not the CG model that was used in the SE enhancements,.....that version was a miss-mash of the 32" & 5 foot models,......this new baby is based solely on the original 5 footer (drool)

http://fortune.com/2014/12/29/millennium-falcon-bob-iger/

It does have some new finer greeblies,...,some areas painted differently,....& of course a new rectangular dish & base for that dish,.....Lando wrecked more than we thought

The really great thing is that now this ship is digital, we hopefully will have accurate toys & models of her,....& I'd say that we will see this digital beauty again with the circular dish in a Han Solo Anthology film

J

 

[Riceball]

Interesting. I never thought about this before, but do you think they were able to yank a lot of the renders from the PT and place them right into the clone wars? A lot of the vehicles for that series were pretty detailed

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Maybe but likely not given the difference between the peace of production in TV vs feature films. The models from the PT would likely be too detailed to use on TV because of how long it would take to render. There's also the possibility of ILM using different software to create the models from what the animation team on Clone Wars uses although it would mostly be a matter of saving the models out as an OBJ file and importing it in to the animation software. On the other hand, with HD being a factor in TV now, the bigger res movie files might be useful but there's still the matter of rendering time although the style of TCW being less than photo real would help to reduce the render time, less bells and whistles needed, but the poly count is still a factor; the higher the poly count the longer it takes to render.

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[kristen jones]

LOL :lol :facepalm Only one is an undisputed record holder - 3 out of the top 10 aren't winter releases. How is this even a debate?.

Well if only three of the top ten aren't winter releases then that means the other 7 are, right? So that fact should show why your May argument is invalid, shouldn't it?


EDIT: In a later post you said the opposite: that 7 out of then were not winter releases. So perhaps this earlier quote from you was a mis-type?

 

[JD]

Well if only three of the top ten aren't winter releases then that means the other 7 are, right? So that fact should show why your May argument is invalid, shouldn't it?

Oops. I think I re-wrote that line and forgot to change the most important part of it. I'll fix the typo.

 

[Riceball]

Its already been mentioned that the Falcon was already available as a rendered model asset by somebody ( but not in this thread) when discussing teaser trailer two and his credibility is 100%. Pre production work on Rogue One is already well advanced because the existing teams working on TFA are rolling on into this project and using a fair portion of whats being used in TFA to retro design whats in Rogue One. Which is why its got a very early release date. The rendering programs and all the tech gear is exactly the same as ILM has been using for TFA and no doubt certain other digital effects will be contracted out as per the norm. But the bulk of it is being done by ILM.

If we're talking Rogue One, then yes, they do have a bit of a head start but only in that some modeling work is already done. They would still have to do the texturing, rigging, animating, lighting, rendering, and comping, then rendering the comps all from scratch. CG is no different than using miniatures in that you can't simply drop in a pre-existing sequence into new footage and expect it to work and look good. The best they can do in that regard is to recycle footage like they did in TOS BSG, but nobody is going to do that in a big budget, feature film.

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[NeoRutty]

Recovering a lost lightsaber and helmet, Stormtroopers (not Clones), Empire (or First Order) - there ya go: poor and weak plot holes. No speculation needed and no explanation needed (as if I haven't explained it enough)... this sounds more like EU stuff than stuff that should be on the big screen. And I'm still of perfectly sound mind.

Go ahead and keep eating it up... I wish I could so blindly accept what they're feeding us.

Everytime I read this "Not clones" thing I just shake my head.

By your thinking, I'm to assume all the guys fighting in Afghanistan right now are the same soldiers from the Gulf war? That the guys in Vietnam fought in WW2?

I just don't get why people think that stormtroopers would be clones, 20 plus years after the clone wars?!

 

[kristen jones]

. I talk about TFA (possibly) being rushed during pre-production. (But, you'll conveniently ignore that so that you can call people names).

.

I don't see anywhere in his post that he called you a name. Just saying.

 

[JD]

Everytime I read this "Not clones" thing I just shake my head.

By your thinking, I'm to assume all the guys fighting in Afghanistan right now are the same soldiers from the Gulf war? That the guys in Vietnam fought in WW2?

I just don't get why people think that stormtroopers would be clones, 20 plus years after the clone wars?!

Do we really need to continue this from a thousand posts ago?

I just don't get why you have several movies setting up folks in white armor as clones and then just pull the rug out from under that. There is absolutely nothing in the movies that shows that Stormtroopers aren't clones - are they the same Jango clones from the Prequels? No.

There is a public perception the Stormtroopers are clones. I've asked my nephew (10) - he thought so, his Mom even chimed in and agreed.

As I said on November 14:

I understand that they're not supposed to be clones anymore... I get it, it's not in my head. That doesn't stop that we have movies that setup Clones as Stormtroopers... and this changes that. The public perception is that Stormtroopers are clones, because more of them saw Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, A New Hope, Empire, Return... and those set up Stormtroopers are clones.


You can say Lucasfilm said this, you can say the cartoon did that, but that doesn't change what the movies did. Maybe there is some explanation and reasonings in The Force Awakens... but, I stand by my statements that it's lazy and it's a forced retcon --- I'll even add that it's akin to Greedo shooting (first).

and...

We will have 5 movies that have implied strongly that Stormtroopers are clones - and a huge chunk of folks who have seen these movies think Stormtroopers are clones... because there is nothing in these movies that show us otherwise (other than a minor height difference here or there). This is about what we're shown in the films... there is just too much in those movies that say this and there is nothing to show the contrary.


It's lazy, lazy, lazy. It's retconning something that's a given. Will people accept it? Yes. Does that make it right? No.


I expect better of Star Wars - and maybe there is some rational explanation in the movie (that I still can't wait to see), I'm still going to guess that there could be a better way to go about this.

If you want to have this discussion again, please read my old posts on the matter.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see anywhere in his post that he called you a name. Just saying.

Semantics.

 

[Westies14]

I just don't get why you have several movies setting up folks in white armor as clones and then just pull the rug out from under that. There is absolutely nothing in the movies that shows that Stormtroopers aren't clones... There is a public perception the Stormtroopers are clones. I've asked my nephew (10) - he thought so, his Mom even chimed in and agreed.

For what it's worth, I never thought for a second growing up that the Stormtroopers were all clones. There's nothing in the films saying they're not, but there's nothing saying they are either. To me, the clone wars always sounded like something resolved, in the past. I always thought that the Academy mentioned early on in ANH was empire-related, feeding them pilots and troops. Leia's snarky comment when Luke comes to rescue her speaks to variation in troopers as much as uniformity, and Luke and Han make no effort to concel their voices though every cloned trooper would sound the same and recognize their "own" voice. Not to contradict the impression that your nephew and his mom got from watching those movies, but it wasn't a universal experience and it's definitely not canon...

 

[Bryancd]

Wasn't my experience either. Different heights, different voices, nothing made me think clones. I also took Leia's hologram comment to refer to something in the distant past.

 

[JD]

For what it's worth, I never thought for a second growing up that the Stormtroopers were all clones. There's nothing in the films saying they're not, but there's nothing saying they are either. To me, the clone wars always sounded like something resolved, in the past. I always thought that the Academy mentioned early on in ANH was empire-related, feeding them pilots and troops. Leia's snarky comment when Luke comes to rescue her speaks to variation in troopers as much as uniformity, and Luke and Han make no effort to concel their voices though every cloned trooper would sound the same and recognize their "own" voice. Not to contradict the impression that your nephew and his mom got from watching those movies, but it wasn't a universal experience and it's definitely not canon...

I'll agree - to me, the Clone Wars were resolved and in the past. And the side with the Clones won. The Emperor needs nameless, mindless fighters to do his work... it makes sense to use Clones that will do his bidding without question. It would be a lot easier for a populace to accept the loss of ST lives in battle if they were clones and not their family members.

An Academy suggests officers - someone to lead or command, someone that would be smarter than what a clone might be. An officer that has to go through an Academy that has many, many, many steps to go through that will test loyalty and assure their allegiance to the Empire (that would take time and effort that would not be spent on an average ST).

Leia definitely suggests that ST's are of some height. While in the years since the Clone Wars, it's very possible that new sources were used for Clones - it would seem that Luke is shorter than all of those sources.

As far as Han/Luke's voice - luck? The comlink distorts enough? Multiple clone sources mean too many voices for them to keep track of? They all sound the same to human officer?

There is absolutely nothing in the movies that suggests that ST aren't clones - whereas, we have AotC and RotS that could definitely lead many to think that they are. I think Lucas intended STs to be clones - but, that changed so we can have our new hero in TFA.

 

[batguy]

Maybe the (non-cloned) stormtroopers in the OT were using armor & equipment that was rooted in the clone army era. There's no reason to throw away a colossal pile of R&D work & tooling that was only a few years old. Just add some additional armor sizes & adjustments on stuff.

 

[NeoRutty]

his Mom even chimed in and agreed. .

My mom thought little Annie was young Luke, let's not bring moms into this :lol

And no need to keep continue from 1000 posts ago if you stop stating 45 year old clones should still be fighting in TFA (which, actually, was like 2 pages ago...so... less than 1000)

Just healthy debate.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

I don't know a single person that thinks stormtroopers are clones. There's a reason there are clonetroopers and stormtroopers

 

[JD]

My mom thought little Annie was young Luke, let's not bring moms into this :lol

And no need to keep continue from 1000 posts ago if you stop stating 45 year old clones should still be fighting in TFA (which, actually, was like 2 pages ago...so... less than 1000)

Just healthy debate.

Where did I say a 45 year old clone would be fighting in TFA?

 

[NeoRutty]

Well considering they talk about joining the academy then jumping ship for the rebellion, they clearly don't use clones as recruits, or why ever have people enlist? Why recruit farm boys from tatooine when you have clones of Jango you could use....

So if they aren't ordering clones anymore (thus the end of the clone wars), then any still in service would be 45 or so years old.

at least I took "Attack of the clones" to be one large order... not a constant flood of new ones every 5 years...

 

[Bryancd]

Ask him about the evidence they are clones based on the banging of the head on doors theory.

 

[joshvanrad]

Isn't it cool when a person or person/s can graciously back out of an argument?

Just an observation I've made throughout my life. Nothing to do with Star Wars. I just wanted to share that here... for no particular reason.

Another observation I've made: Sometimes when you're on the end of a losing battle, it's just best to cut your losses and bow out for a while.

 

[cboath]

Maybe but likely not given the difference between the peace of production in TV vs feature films. The models from the PT would likely be too detailed to use on TV because of how long it would take to render. There's also the possibility of ILM using different software to create the models from what the animation team on Clone Wars uses although it would mostly be a matter of saving the models out as an OBJ file and importing it in to the animation software. On the other hand, with HD being a factor in TV now, the bigger res movie files might be useful but there's still the matter of rendering time although the style of TCW being less than photo real would help to reduce the render time, less bells and whistles needed, but the poly count is still a factor; the higher the poly count the longer it takes to render.

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No such thing as too detailed. Pretty much all modeling and rendering packages have LOD (level of detail) options in them that can reduce poly counts and take high detailed model renders and apply that as a texture to lower detailed models. As far as models and software go, meh, in 90% of cases i'd imagine there's a translation tool available. In the other 10%, they have the inhouse programmers required to write their own. The big killer in rendering time doesn't tend to be model or texture size, but rather lighting, shadows, and global illumination/radiosity/whatever you're using. The TV shows (cartoons) don't seem to be using that much, especially the GI which will help greatly. Also the fact they have a warehouse full of slave units to do the rendering If an ep has a running time of 24 minutes, that 43,200 frames. split it by number of render nodes in the warehouse.

 

[JD]

Ask him about the evidence they are clones based on the banging of the head on doors theory.

No need to be a dick.
http://www.lucasforums.com/archive/index.php/t-57797.html
http://www.eeggs.com/items/35104.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/faq#.2.1.8


Everything I've said about STs/Clones I've already said in this thread. If you want to continue that, please feel free to look up my old posts.