Star Wars: Force Ghost.. why only Jedi?

DarthLee

Sr Member
Why only Jedi??

Jedi who were not dismembered, seem to come back as "ghost"

Makes me wonder about Mace Windu and Sidious, both seem to have much knowledge.

As greedy as Sith and Dark Lords were/are, it would seem that would be the first thing to practice.. "cheating death"

Was Sidious lying when he portrayed to be as knowledgeable as Yoda..

Sidious was not cut in half or dismembered... just like Mace.. so why not?

Darth Plagueis the wise.. cheated death... was it the same as Yoda.. Anakin and Obiwan (and now assumed Luke)? and did Sidious or others find a way to kill the ghost?

Ive always wondered.....
 

SethS

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It was very unclear, and poorly delivered, but at the end of ROTS it is implied the Force Ghost thing is a trick Qui-Gon learned, taught to Yoda after death, and that Obi-Wan was going to learn it next.

This was done in the PT style of poor screenwriting by telling us and not showing us, so the plot point was easy to miss.
 

mkstewartesq

Sr Member
It was very unclear, and poorly delivered, but at the end of ROTS it is implied the Force Ghost thing is a trick Qui-Gon learned, taught to Yoda after death, and that Obi-Wan was going to learn it next.

This was done in the PT style of poor screenwriting by telling us and not showing us, so the plot point was easy to miss.
Yep, though it was made much more explicit in the novelization. In effect, Qui-Gon, true to his characterization as a maverick, rediscovered the technique, passed it on to Yoda who then offered to teach Obi-Wan at the end of ROTS. So really only those three should persist as ghosts. Likely speculation is that Anakin\Vader must have sought out the technique and taught himself after being puzzled by what happened to Obi-Wan when he killed him on the Death Star. I’ll stop there until the newer SW material is, well, less new.

M
 

DarthLee

Sr Member
It was very unclear, and poorly delivered, but at the end of ROTS it is implied the Force Ghost thing is a trick Qui-Gon learned, taught to Yoda after death, and that Obi-Wan was going to learn it next.

This was done in the PT style of poor screenwriting by telling us and not showing us, so the plot point was easy to miss.
Which leads to my next question... if Qui-Gon had to teach Yoda.. then what was the Plagueis story about

Just hoped someone here had some insight or EU info they could spill.. as to why and how Qui-Gon knew.. and Sidious' "Master" knew.. But Sidious never knew
 

SethS

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Looking for logic in random PT plot points is like looking for the Star Wars equivilent of a needle in a haystack.

Ask Sifo Dyas.
 

Jaitea

Master Member
I read somewhere that Lucas explained......ages ago.....that Sidious had taught Anakin the teachings of Plagueis....the secrets of life.....to stop death.....but no matter what a Sith cannot become a Force Ghost,....the teachings were flawed....

In ROTS Qui-Gon had communicated to Yoda from the other side,,,....& passed on to him his findings.....who passed on to Obi-Wan at the end of the film.....to learn of these teachings

By the end of RotJ after Vader redeemed himself & saved Luke,....& moved back into the light side of the Force & died.....the teachings that Sideous taught him worked.....the passage to become one with the Force only work with a Light side user

Thats why Anakin joined Obi-Wan & Yoda at the end of RotJ

J
 

Probe Droid

Master Member
Qui-Gon mentions the "living force" several times, so it seems to be a facet of the Force that he alone has tapped into. This explains Yoda and Kenobi's continued presence, but there's no way Anakin would know anything of it, so, yeah, an inconsistency.
 

mobius303

Well-Known Member
I think making Anakin a force ghost was a mistake. It trivialized the Force Ghost thing and it was further muddied up by the whole Darth Plaugis thing. The Emproer was trying to get Anakin to turn to the darkside by playing on his emotional attachment to Amadala. They should have done something with it if the Emporer did have that knowledge. Just like they did by making Anakin a force ghost.
Yes it was an inconsistency as well as a huge mistake that to me made it bad story telling.
People who are making the new three of the trilogy to me have passed up big opportunities and stories only because they want to tell their story their way and not be consistent to the original material that they do not really understand deeply. JJ is all about putting in mystery for no reason and then not following up or through with any answers beyond the superficial which to me makes it bad story telling.
Even Rogue One obviously had several different cuts with parts shown in the trailers that were not at all in the movie. I liked what they did but it could have been even better.
Remember that the Force is based on Eastern Religions and the becoming a force ghost is akin to enlightenment. That may be where the true answer is at and again people who are writing these movies really do not have a deeper understanding of what they are writing about.
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Master Member
I read somewhere that Lucas explained......ages ago.....that Sidious had taught Anakin the teachings of Plagueis....the secrets of life.....to stop death.....but no matter what a Sith cannot become a Force Ghost,....the teachings were flawed....

In ROTS Qui-Gon had communicated to Yoda from the other side,,,....& passed on to him his findings.....who passed on to Obi-Wan at the end of the film.....to learn of these teachings

By the end of RotJ after Vader redeemed himself & saved Luke,....& moved back into the light side of the Force & died.....the teachings that Sideous taught him worked.....the passage to become one with the Force only work with a Light side user

Thats why Anakin joined Obi-Wan & Yoda at the end of RotJ

J
If Lucas said that then he contradicted himself because one of the Clone Wars episodes has Darth Bane's spirit. That could have been a vision though.I don't know if he means that the Sith can't do this trick the same way a Jedi can, or can't do it period. In the old EU Sith ghosts were in certain tombs. So maybe Sith can do something, but they are tethered to one location permanently?
 

modelcitizen

Sr Member
sidious lied to anakin about knowing how to cheat death. he only implied he might have the knowledge to get anakin to turn to his side.
after anakin gave in and killed windu, sidious says "sorry, kid. i don't really know what i tempted you with, but together we can look for the secret (sorry. sucker....)".

classic horns, red cape and tail....
 
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usajdm

Well-Known Member
In one of the Clone Wars episodes, Jinn contacts Yoda, only in voice though and sets him on a path to start learning this ability and to further his connection with the force.
Ill try to look up the exact episode.
To my understanding, Jedi and Sith that are chosen to learn this, are ones that upon death are not ready to completely become part of the force, due to having knowledge that must be passed on to others in order to keep the balance.
Of course I could be way off.
Robert
 

DarthLee

Sr Member
sidious lied to anakin about knowing how to cheat death. he only implied he might have the knowledge to get anakin to turn to his side.
after anakin gave in and killed windu, sidious says "sorry, kid. i don't really know what i tempted you with, but together we can look for the secret (sorry. sucker....)".

classic horns, red cape and tail....
If this is true and Sidious did not know.. then how did Anakin learn it? Had to learn it somehwere... wasnt from a Jedi
 

DarthLee

Sr Member
It's almost as if the PT wasn't very well thought out and poorly written.. hmmm...
I just text Lucas.. waiting for his reply

Until then, thats why I started this... if there were any answers out there that I might have missed, seems that it's a discussion sense TLJ and Luke and all
 

DarthLee

Sr Member
If Sidious really (secretly) knows how to cheat death, could he be the mastermind behind Snoke's death....Kilo.. the First order?

He wouldnt have told Anakin the secret.. not after just revealing the death of another Dark Lord by an apprentice. Keep that stuff to yourself, and live forever!!!
 

SethS

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Here's the thing about Star Wars. The movies are mythic storytelling. That means big broad strokes. White cowboy hat vs black cowboy hate. It's good versus evil in storybook fashion. To that, these complex overly-complicated theories NEVER turn out to be true. Never.

Just because Star Wars birthed one of the biggest twists to ever be onscreen, people continuously seem to think that every movie will have another one-- but it hasn't happened yet. That big twist was in the second SW movie made, and episode IX will be the eleventh. Unless you count Leia being Luke's sister, none of them have had an epic twist like that.

Since TPM was announced I have seen endless complicated conspiracy theories and plot ideas. And NONE of them ever come to fruition.
 
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Metaluna mutant

Well-Known Member
I always posited that being Sith is about being physically alive, and nothing else. Eternal life? For a Sith it must be physical, bodily eternal life.

Only the Jedi looked beyond this and realized that, by giving up your bodily life you could have an eternal spiritual life. A life of the "soul" not the "body" A Sith would not consider that eternal life, so they would reject that form of "immortality" from the start.
 

DrkSideTndncies

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Why do you think that only the Jedi can do it. The stories shown to us (in movies) are from the point of view of the good side (mainly Luke with the ghosts) so why would he see Dark Side ghosts, the ghosts should be there to give inspiration or direction, I guess if he chose to see the emperor or DM then maybe he could but that would be silly. Seriously (to stay away from religion), if you were looking for enlightenment would you want to see the Dali Lama or Hitler. I think if we had a movie based in the dark side POV we would see Sith ghosts.
 

DarthLee

Sr Member
Why do you think that only the Jedi can do it. The stories shown to us (in movies) are from the point of view of the good side (mainly Luke with the ghosts) so why would he see Dark Side ghosts, the ghosts should be there to give inspiration or direction, I guess if he chose to see the emperor or DM then maybe he could but that would be silly. Seriously (to stay away from religion), if you were looking for enlightenment would you want to see the Dali Lama or Hitler. I think if we had a movie based in the dark side POV we would see Sith ghosts.
Just an unanswered question...
 

Bryancd

Master Member
Dave Filoni has addressed this and shared what George told him about this very subject. The Sith are obsessed with living with their power. They selfishly cling to it and they try and prolong their lives to make it last. The Jedi are selfless and willing give themselves to the Force, and death if necessary. The Bane vision in Clone Wars really wasn't a Force ghost.
 
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