Star Wars Episode VI - They didn't fix the lightsaber cross

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Jehudah Design, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Jehudah Design

    Jehudah Design Well-Known Member

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    Ever since I was a kid and saw Star Wars Episode VI, I always wondered why it appeared as if Darth Vader's lightsaber was the one being blocked when Luke tries to kill the Emperor. It was easier to see before they "fixed" the colors of the lightsabers in this scene, but clearly Vader's lightsaber is in front of Luke's as if Luke is pushing his away from the Emperor.
    [​IMG]

    Then I realized that it's WRONG!
    Obviously the horizontal Lightsaber being blocked is Luke's in an attempt to decapitate the Emperor while the diagonal one is Vader's. How can I say this for sure? Because otherwise Vader would be holding his lightsaber with his kneecaps! Look at the position of his belt box lights, he could not have held his lightsaber that way.

    So they simply screwed up the colors like they did many times in Episode IV, and they blew their chance of fixing it during their recent color enhancement for this scene in the Blu-Ray Discs.

    This is what it should have looked like.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    On the new Blu-ray the sabers are now so bright I can't tell which one is where, but at least it's not that half-cut crap like the regular DVDs.
     
  3. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    No no, it`s a test from George. ``let`s see if they really want the crummy originals or if they want the new improved versions. Obviously, you are th target audience for rocks in front of R2, Sebulba in RotJ and `NOOOOOOO!`. Thanks for ruining for the rest of us.

    I kid, I kid:)

    Actually there`s so much wrong with the BDs that I`m susurprised you`d expect they`d have caught anything like that which would have required thinking about the visual logic in the shot.
     
  4. aeonpulse

    aeonpulse Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I honestly don't understand why Lucas won't let us have the untouched originals in Blu-Ray quality. If you want to make revisions and tweaks, that's fine. But godd@nm, don't just replace the versions we grew up loving! My copy of Blade Runner has the theatrical version, the director's cut, and the final cut. My copy of Aliens contains both the theatrical version, and the extended director's cut. Why won't Lucas offer the same!? I don't UNDERSTAND! WHYYYYY?!?!
     
  5. Jehudah Design

    Jehudah Design Well-Known Member

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    Well my point is that they claim they "fixed" that scene while the colors of the lightsabers have been swapped in every single version of the movie. They blew their chance at swapping back the colors because they thought it was supposed to be that way.

    The GREEN lightsaber should have been RED.
    The RED lightsaber should have been GREEN.
     
  6. SciFiMuseum

    SciFiMuseum Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that lightsaber strike always bothered me but not half as much as Lucas never fixing the effect when Han Solo comes out of Carbon freeze...it looked hokey to me as a teenager when I went to see it and it still does. he keeps 'fixing' everything and I accept that because it is George's universe to play in. If you don't like that he is doing that simply watch the original copies. Sure they will never be on a newer format like Blu-ray in their original form but then again that would be altering them in a way. The first time he actually altered them from their original form was before ESB was released when he fixed the crawl and added "Episode IV" to the title but no one brings that up. However with all that said if he is fixing them, I agree-then fix them by cleaning up things like the sabers and the Carbon freeze melting shot. Just my 2 cubits.
     
  7. Jehudah Design

    Jehudah Design Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the movies need more fixing instead of adding. So many things still annoy me because it looks off or fake, but the money goes to adding a Dug in Jabba's palace for no purpose what so ever and make the Ewoks blink a few times because that supposedly make them seem more real. I just don't get it. If they were my movies, I'd track down all errors and mistakes instead of ignoring them and adding pointless crap.
     
  8. SciFiMuseum

    SciFiMuseum Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that bothers me but it is acting and blocking... is when Luke activates his fathers lightsaber for the first time. Ben just gives it to him and is standing VERY close when the kid just turns it on-with the blade VERY close to Ben. Even the ignition effect looks more violent in that shot. I know it is supposed to be that the Force that is protecting Ben...but he would have never handed him a lightsaber in the first place without some sort of "hey point that over there when you turn it on" advice.
     
  9. benhs1898

    benhs1898 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Is it that Luke is actually striking at the Emperor? I always saw it as just the first moment of the fight and they chose to frame the Emperor that way to show that it is really him in between father and son. Exposing him to be a sort-of puppet master.

    SciFiMuseum, I think maybe he figured it's the same logic as "never stare down the barrel of a blaster".
     
  10. SciFiMuseum

    SciFiMuseum Well-Known Member

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    I know it is just how the actors were standing and they had no idea how the effect would look at the time...
     
  11. CJS

    CJS Well-Known Member

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    It would be set differently when it was a wider shot. Medium close up on the emperor. It was probly an insert cut. Shot for artistic merit after the actors fought or maybe a reshoot after the scene was shot. It's probly not David and Mark holding the light sabers for the shot. Most likely standins and it caused a continuity error.
     
  12. steveo

    steveo Sr Member

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    Um, I'd say yeah. It's the Emperor that is creating the tension for Luke and Luke wants to kill him. I'd say that's the whole point of that scene in general.
     
  13. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Really?!?!? Another one.

    Luke starts to swing at the Emporer. Vader starts to counter by striking at Luke. Luke redirects his swing to counter Vader's blow toward himself.

    Was that so hard?

    They're Jedi, they're very fast.

    You people have no imagination.
     
  14. rodneyfaile

    rodneyfaile Sr Member

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    I bet he wants to add something about how high Luke's midichlorian count is.
     
  15. Monster Dave

    Monster Dave Sr Member

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    I read an article recently with Michael Okuda in regards to remastering Star Trek TNG for Blu-ray. He was asked if they would make 'corrections' to mistakes made when episodes first aired on TV. His reply sums up what I believe that we all think about Star Wars and the multitude of changes that Lucas has made to the films:

    “For the most part, we find that people – for whatever reason – [mistakes are] part of the viewing experience...So to smooth over things they expect to see we find will disappoint some people.”

    Every time Lucas makes a change, he changes both our memory and the experience of what we loved so much about these great movies. I applaud the perspective that those like Okuda and even Spielberg (with regards to Indy) are holding to as far as not making changes to original works - the people have spoken, but Lucas just isn't listening.
     
  16. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Well Okuda doesn't own anything and Spielberg was the FIRST to do a Special Edition (of CE3K) and E.T. later.

    Next.
     
  17. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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  18. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Hey, Okuda invented touch-screen interfaces, so he's a scientist and a film maker! Or something. Oh, wait, no, he's neither. He's an art major.
     
  19. Vermithrax 4

    Vermithrax 4 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I've seen that scene hundreds of times but never noticed Vader's belt to the right of the Emperor's chair. Of course, that shot is strictly done for drama's sake, the crossing of saber blades within inches of Palpatine's head. I've always loved how totally without fear Palpatine was at that moment, knowing full well that Vader would counter a blow and laughing in the face of Luke's attack. It's so manipulative. I was never hung up on the error of the blade positions but it is quite noticeable.

    The error that DID bug me, though, was Vader's wrist. After he tosses Palpatine down the reactor shaft (there's always a reactor shaft somewhere close by in the SW world) he's leaning on those cylinder things and his arm is bent at the mid-forearm...AFTER Luke has sliced his hand off AT THE WRIST!!! Now, I know that's just Dave Prowse failing to keep his hand straight under the severed glove extension. I guess it could be claimed that since his arm was metal it got bent somehow under the weight of carrying Palpatine or something. :lol
     
  20. SciFiMuseum

    SciFiMuseum Well-Known Member

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    You must mean Alec and Mark...we are talking about two different shots from 2 different films I think....plus no one on set at the time knew how the lightsaber effects would look. It is a blocking problem. You are talking about the ROTJ shot, I am discussing ANH where you are quoting me.
     
  21. The Night

    The Night Member

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    i watched this scene last night on blu-ray. the thought occured to me, did Vader block Luke's strike to save the emperor's life? Or did he do it to save Luke from the dark side?

    the line before is palpatine telling Luke to "take your Jedi weapon. strike me down with your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete." so in a sense by blocking Luke's strike Vader prevents Luke from turning to the dark side.

    Also, suppose Luke had killed the emperor, then by the rule of 2 who is the new master? Since according to the rule of 2 the only way to become the new Sith Master is for the apprentice to kill the master. So wouldn't killing the emperor have made Luke the new master and Vader his apprentice?
     
  22. Jehudah Design

    Jehudah Design Well-Known Member

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    I never thought about it that way. Vader have wanted the Emperor dead for years and Luke could've just cut his head off right then and there, so maybe he didn't want Luke turning to the dark side because he secretly cared for him, enough to kill the Emperor himself later on even..
     
  23. ChaoBreeder

    ChaoBreeder Active Member

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    Really? That's such a minor detail.
     
  24. Vermithrax 4

    Vermithrax 4 Well-Known Member

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    "It's a trifle of course. But there's nothing so important as trifles."
    -Sherlock Holmes
     
  25. blewis17

    blewis17 Sr Member

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    [​IMG]

    On Endor, when Vader ignites and examines Luke's green saber, vader's belt boxes are on BACKWARDS. Both of them! You can kind of see it on Vaders right (image left) box. The right box and left box were placed on the wrong sides of his belt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  26. ShadowX81

    ShadowX81 Well-Known Member

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    Out of all the changes that Lucas makes to the trilogy, I don't get why he wont make the few changes that people might be able to get behind. Specifically cleaning up the lightsaber effects; especially in A New Hope.

    Luke's lightsaber is still green in some shots, and the glow on the sabers is very rough and inconsistant. In the Darth Vader duel scene, there is apsolutly nothing illuminating Obi Wan's saber, and you can clearly see the stunt-rod undernieth.
     
  27. rodneyfaile

    rodneyfaile Sr Member

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  28. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Wait, STILL? The Obi-Wan rod thing is still in there even in the blu-rays?!


    I swear, I do not get the mindset involved in how they handle these films. They fix some stuff, "fix" other things that didn't need fixing, BREAK several things, and then let sit some of the more obvious things that would be exactly what you'd EXPECT them to fix.

    There's no logic to it. Why put rocks in front of R2? Was it for the 3D conversion so you can have something pop in the foreground in that shot? Why NOT restore the more muted ESB color palette or at least make the transition shots not visibly switch back to the old one before fading out? Why leave the Obi-Wan sabre thing alone, and NOT fix Luke's sabre color?

    It's just this bizarre mix of changes that improve, changes that hurt, and ignoring other things and there's no consistency to it whatsoever.


    It's stuff like this that makes me just skip buying these things altogether. I mean, say what you will about the artistic choices (Greedo shoots, Greedo doesn't shoot, whatever). They can't even get the technical details right. These are supposed to be these razzle-dazzle high-tech updates, and they seem to drop the technical ball with each release.
     
    Falk likes this.

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