STAR WARS Debate Settled? (Guess we're all vindicated, huh? :) )

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Bryancd

Master Member
The script in question was a reproduction sold at conventions and it never was in question, the original script had Han shooting first.
 

Jeyl

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
But Lucas said that Greedo shooting first was always in the script! He says so in his commentary! Thanks for ruining my childhood.
 

Wolfsburg

Sr Member
Wow, I had no idea Lucas was making that claim. I just assumed he changed it in the SE to make it a bit more kid-friendly.
 

JD

Master Member
We're supposed to trust a source that says Luke was going to be called 'Skykiller?'

I don't think there's a doubt that Han was supposed to shoot (first), not Greedo.
 

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J EM

Well-Known Member
We're supposed to trust a source that says Luke was going to be called 'Skykiller?'

I don't think there's a doubt that Han was supposed to shoot (first), not Greedo.
Can you guys imagine that? Luke Skykiller?! :lol


Idky but that makes me laugh
 

Jeyl

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Wow, I had no idea Lucas was making that claim. I just assumed he changed it in the SE to make it a bit more kid-friendly.
I was 12 when the Special Editions came out and being at that young age, I didn't see the "Greedo shooting first" change as a moment intended to make Han look less cold-blooded. I thought it was a change to make the scene look more action packed. You know? Han is so cool he can dodge a blaster shot from six feet away! That's how I interpreted it. It wasn't until years later that I learned how big of an issue it was in the fan community and it wasn't until I listened to Joss Whedon's solo-commentary on Serenity when I realized just how influencing that creative decision had on filmmakers.

Now knowing what I know now, the change is a complete failure in trying to convey a different perspective on the event. Han still kills Greedo like it's nothing and shows no remorse in his actions. Having him react to being shot was no different than having him react to Greedo's "That's the idea. I've been looking forward to this for a long time" retort.

If Lucas didn't want Han Solo to come off as cold, he probably shouldn't have had him kill Greedo at all. There have been capable killers who use guns in such a way that it doesn't kill the person being shot. James Cameron did that for the Terminator in T2, and the anime show Trigun is practically built around that premise. Unfortunately, Lucas wanted Greedo to be killed by Han and changing it to be 'self-defense' doesn't really take away the 'cold' factor.
 

Wolfsburg

Sr Member
Yeah I seem to remember reading an article about the SE back in the day and the claim was it was changed to "self-defense" to be more kid friendly. Pretty silly. If that was the case, I'm surprised they didn't cut out the shot of Ponda Baba's bloody severed arm or the Tauntaun being disemboweled by Han.
 

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swgeek

Sr Member
This is so stupid to me. First of all, how is this a debate? Until the special edition, Han shoots and kills Greedo before Greedo can get off a shot, period. Early drafts of the movie are just that, early drafts. All sorts of things change from one draft to the next, and even while filming. The only thing that matters is what ends up on the screen, and not what ends up on the screen when the director decides to go back and bastardize the original film.
 

Sourdoh

Sr Member
Funny. I always thought that Greedo drew first, but Han got off the first (and decisive) shot. A classic Old West situation, which went along with Lucas' supposed original statement that he was trying to make a homage to movie serials.
 

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Wolfsburg

Sr Member
Duh... :) I probably first saw SW when I was 3 in 1980 and I never once thought Han was a bad guy because he shot Greedo. As a kid that young even I figured out that Greedo was trying to kill him. Give kids some credit.
Totally agree. It seems like kids are underestimated these days.
 

Solo4114

Master Member
This is so stupid to me. First of all, how is this a debate? Until the special edition, Han shoots and kills Greedo before Greedo can get off a shot, period. Early drafts of the movie are just that, early drafts. All sorts of things change from one draft to the next, and even while filming. The only thing that matters is what ends up on the screen, and not what ends up on the screen when the director decides to go back and bastardize the original film.
This was never even open for debate.
It's not even really a debate. You watch the film. Han shoots Greedo. That's that.

I think the only reason this came up as a debate is the sort of mythology floating around about what Lucas said he "always intended" or "always wanted" or "was never satisfied with" and such.


And you know what? Most of that, I think, is down to the fans, not Lucas himself. Lucas has said stuff about what he intended at different points, yeah. And he has changed his tune on some of that, as well as having his statements directly contradicted by what appeared on screen.

But the more I think about it, the more I think it's the fans -- myself included -- that gave him credit as this master planner who knew all the details and structure and background info for everything, and had this grand plan for what he was going to do with everything, why he made every decisions, etc. We also credited him as a singular auteur, rather than one (critical) part of a larger creative process.

And it was the prequels that dropped the scales from our eyes, basically. Well, the prequels and the special editions, and the interviews that followed. The whole sense of "GOTCHA!!! You SAID this, but then you LATER said THAT!!" comes as a result of our disappointment with the prequels, as well as George's unwillingness to say "Yeah, that was a mistake" in some way that acknowledged the fans were right. So when he defended some of his positions by saying what he "always intended," the fans jumped on it to prove him wrong (as if that'd matter somehow?). Like, we so wanted to catch him and shove in his face how wrong he was, as if that'd (A) vindicate our disappointment, and (B) I dunno, make him go change it back the way we wanted? Of course, that'd never happen.

Lastly, I think that while Lucas has said in a handful of occasions that he "always intended" this or that, the attitude that he always intended something has probably been more widely attributed than it should've been. And again, I think that's down to us. I don't think Lucas has pronounced what his intentions were for every little niggling detail in the films, nor has he responded to every challenge made to him about why XYZ was different. Midichlorians? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I read how he actually addressed that. Han shooting first? I think that was more about "it always kinda bugged me a little" but we've turned that into "always intended." Basically, I think fans have attributed a notion of "I'm never wrong, it's my world, and if you don't like what I do, you can eat bantha poodoo," to pretty much everything he's done, and I just don't think he's actually said that much on so many subjects about the films. Some stuff, yeah, but not everything.

Mostly, though, at this point, I just don't think it really matters what he's said. It's not his stuff anymore. He's not holding the creative reins. He's just a guy with some ideas, and while he is the creator, his ideas don't necessarily mean "And that's exactly what'll happen." As the creator of the world, he's got some insight into what he intended or how he imagined stuff, but it doesn't matter because the people writing the stories are going to do it their way.
 

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