Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad V´ger?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Wes R, May 19, 2012.

  1. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    The episode with Nomad is on tonight and I never realized until now that Nomad and Veeg'r have a lot in common. Are they actually related or did Gene just reuse the ideas for the motion picture?
     
  2. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    No relation. Just imagined by fans.
     
  3. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    I have heard that the script for ST:TMP was supposed to be a continuation of the Nomad thing -- or something to that effect -- but was then modified later. That could just be urban legend, though. I don't claim to be an authority on the subject.
     
  4. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    It just struck me as to how the storylines were a like but I think Mic could be right and it's a thing where fans just put the two together when they're not.
     
  5. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    I don't believe they are "deliberately" related.

    [​IMG]

    V'ger was originally Voyager 6. The Voyager series of deep space probes were launched in 1977 (in reality there were only Voyagers 1 and 2). They were to travel out to Jupiter and Saturn and then out of our solar system.

    According to TMP, Voyager 6 (conjecture, but probably launched in 1999 as it was less advanced than Nomad) fell into a "black hole" and emerged on the other side of the galaxy. It eventually reached the "machine homeworld" whereupon the machines found it to be crude, but treated it as one of their own kind.

    The machines built the V'ger spacecraft for Voyager and sent it on its return path to Earth (presumably taking hundreds of years to arrive).


    [​IMG]

    Nomad was launched from Earth in 2002 (exact date was in the script of The Changeling however Kirk simply mentions that Nomad was launched in the early 2000s). Its mission was to seek out new life forms. However in a freak accident it collided with an alien probe called Tan Ru. Tan Ru's mission was to obtain and sterilize soil samples as a preclude to colonization.


    [​IMG]

    After the collision, the two probes managed to merge and repair one another becoming the new improved Nomad. It believed its mission was now to sterilize all life forms (in other words destroy everything that shows the smallest flaws or weakness).

    Of course Nomad destroyed itself after a bout of wits and logic from Kirk, so it "can't" be V'ger.


    The two stories do have similar plotlines though. We all joke that The Motion Picture is just a fancy big screen rehash of The Changeling.

    However the script for The Motion Picture was originally supposed to be the premiere episode of Star Trek Phase II (the second proposed Star Trek television series in the late 1970s). The episode's title was "In Thy Image" and was pretty much what we got in The Motion Picture. However in this version, Voyager 6 was Voyager 18 launched before Earth suffered World War III (its mission was simply a record of Earth's civilization to be found by an alien race in case we completely destroyed ourselves). Voyager 18 traveled out to the far reaches of the galaxy and encountered "The Wan" who sent it back to Earth as "Veejur."

    Upon reaching Earth looking for its creator, Kirk and crew explain that Earthlings created Veejur, however Earth was nearly destroyed by WWIII so Veejur cannot believe such a warlike race created it. It intends to wipe out all of humanity.

    Kirk proves that Earthlings created it by repairing a damaged section that only its "Creator" could know how to. Veejur then accepts that humans are its creator, but states that it no longer serves humanity and leaves for the deep exploration of space for its own sake, and not as a part of its original mission (though it may choose to return to Earth one day).



    Kevin
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  6. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    You are in error. Must examine imperfection. Must sterilize. Must carry out prime directive.
     
  7. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    Non sequitur.

    ;)


    Kevin
     
  8. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    I just figured that the story was recycled since it had so much potential.
     
  9. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?


    Norman, coordinate.
     
  10. feek61

    feek61 Sr Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    Well, the guy who wrote the story for "The Changling" (Nomad episode) did sue and got money because TMP was the basically the same story.

    No, it's not your imagination.
     
  11. BAK55

    BAK55 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    Since Star Trek: the Motion Picture was from a story by Alan Dean Foster, it figures.

    This is just my opinion, but I don't think the man could come up with his own idea for anything.
     
  12. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    I would have liked to have seen the Ray Bradbury story.
     
  13. YenChih Lin

    YenChih Lin Sr Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    Some speculated wildly afterwards, if V'ger met the Borg…
     
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  14. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    A mass of conflicting impulses :lol
     
  15. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    Well, he did write the Spellsinger series which, as far as i know, is original. Also which brought me much entertainment at the tender age of 13.
     
  16. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    In one of Shatner's Trek novels he even mentioned that kind of thing.
     
  17. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Re: Star Trek: TOS question: Is Nomad Veeg'r?

    The machine planet was exactly that- a race of pure machines. Think of a planet inhabited by Skynet, HKs and Endos only.

    The Borg are partly organic ("Borg" is derived from Cyborg- cybernetic organism) so they are not the machine World depicted in TMP.

    Most of this stems from a joke Gene Roddenberry made after the episode "Q-Who?" was produced- saying that V'ger "may" have fallen into the Borg homeworld. However it was only a joke and not to be taken seriously. Well... about as seriously as any novels Shatner has written. ;)


    Kevin
     
  18. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Nomad is goofy, V'Ger is.....

    [​IMG]





    ......scary.... :ninja
     
  19. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    That is still amazing looking all these years later.
     
  20. darthgordon

    darthgordon Sr Member

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    If you stare at this long enough, you'll see a 3D picture...

    As I understand the story which I've pieced together from various articles that had nothing to do with TMP- they wanted to do a big budget remake of a classic episode using updated visual effects. They narrowed it down to two episodes... The Changeling and Spock's Brain... however, they were going to modify it to be Shatner's hairpiece. However, the story was dropped because Harlan Ellison threatened to sue over the fact that he felt the story was too similar to his script for City on the Edge of Forever... in that it used the original crew of the Enterprise and on page 2 of the first treatment the word "time" was used twice. This was very upsetting for Shatner who'd always wanted to be filmed without his hairpiece, but was never allowed by his agent. He became very upset when TNG premiered with a captain who did not need to wear a hairpiece... So upset in fact, the he insisted that the character of Kirk die in Generations. He even refused to film his scenes with Patrick Stewart. So all the scenes of them were filmed separately and then edited together in post.

    I think I need to add all this information to Wikipedia... as it doesn't appear to be there.
     
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  21. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    This is so full of win. :lol
     
  22. Mola Rob

    Mola Rob Sr Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Moriarti

    Moriarti New Member

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    What if the creators of V'Ger and the creators of the probe that hit nomad were made by the same civilization. Just a thought I had while watching ST:TMP
     
  24. madmikeee

    madmikeee Sr Member

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    I would love for them to reincorporate V'ger into one of the new films. I know many people pan the motion picture but the concept was great IMO. Just not very well executed. My thoughts were always that V'ger was the creator of the Borg.
     
  25. Lightning

    Lightning Well-Known Member

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    One of the nicknames for TMP was "Where Nomad Has Gone Before"
     
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  26. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

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    Preferably with no Stephen Collins though.
     
  27. asalaw

    asalaw Sr Member

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    :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol
     
  28. dascoyne

    dascoyne Master Member

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    In 1979 my buddy saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture before I did and said, "I just watched a 2 hour version of 'The Changeling'. It's the same story."
     
  29. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    All the times I've watched TOS and all the times I've watched TMP, I never drew that parallel. They both have self-aware space probes, but their motivations and methods and the way Our Heroes deal with them are utterly different.

    --Jonah
     
  30. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    I remember this thread!

    In the comic book prequel to Abrams' film, it explains that, after escaping Rura Penthe, Nero and the Narada are essentially summoned to V'ger, from whom Nero is able to determine where/when Spock will emerge in this timeline.

    In the game Star Trek: Legacy, they say that V'ger created the Borg to help it learn everything it could. And remember, Spock was of the opinion that, in dealing with V'ger, "resistance may be futile."
     
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  31. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    Except Guinan told Our Heroes the Borg had been developing for thousands of centuries. So unless the black hole sent the Voyager probe back in time as well as across space... But that doesn't explain how it was a planet of living machines that the probe encountered -- not proto-Borg. Not everything needs to be connected to everything else.

    --Jonah
     
  32. Contec

    Contec Master Member

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  33. madmikeee

    madmikeee Sr Member

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    Thanks for the summary! I never read the books or played the game. I am glad my fanboy force was strong in this one. Yeah Yeah I know, star wars doesn't belong in a trek conversation but I did it anyway :)
     
  34. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    That quote from Memory Alpha uses the Star Trek Encyclopedia as its reference, however I can find no such quote in the encyclopedia (which I own and just leafed through) under any of the headings "Q-Who", "Borg", "V'Ger", "Voyager 6" or "ST:TMP". There is no entry for "machine planet/homeworld" etc.

    However I did find a quote similar to this in the ST Chronology:

    [​IMG]

    Key phrase here is "half jokingly." Gene was probably just making a lighthearted remark when he himself noticed "similarities" between the "machine planet" and the "Borg".

    No Voyager did not encounter the Borg homeworld, it encountered a planet of sentient machines.

    (And yes, that was a full-on nerdfight response. ;) :) )


    Kevin
     

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  35. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    You think Gene half-jokingly making connections is weird, you should see how he thought the Ferengi should be depicted when he was serious.
     
  36. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

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    I know that reference, and it would have been hard to pull off on tv
     
  37. dbuck

    dbuck Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    When my dad and I walked out of the theater after seeing ST:TMP we immediately agreed it was a big screen version of the Changeling without the typical 'does not compute' self destruction ending.
     
  38. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Surprised nobody has taken a whack at the V'ger plaque. Hey that rhymes.
    Would be quite cool.
    I started a thread sometime back but I guess nobody has ever done one.
     

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