Star Trek TOS Hero Phaser Observation

TOS Phaser

Member
"Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water..."

I found a high resolution close up (from my TPZ collection) of the Hero P2 that Captain Kirk holds, when Finney jabs the Captain in the back with the Spock P2 aka the "Finney"!

CourtMartial P2s.png

Even in this photo I can see a forehead crack on the Hero P2 Captain Kirk is holding!

P2 Captain Kirk Holds in Court.png

And after enlarging the photo - you can not only see the forehead crack - you can see the nozzle is low on the P2 body...

is Captain Kirk holding the Sulu - GJ in Court?.png

Comparing the above Hero closeup to the GJ prop left-side view scanner image, (Architect Elevation Cameras are very expensive - the prop was place on red material/padding and I believe the scanner was then placed on-top of the prop for a distortion/parallax free image), provides a good argument the GJ P2 was the Hero P2 that Captain Kirk held in this scene.

Thus I believe (now) the Greg Jein P2 was last filmed in episode 15, "Court-Martial".
 

Leinads

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
"Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water..."

I found a high resolution close up (from my TPZ collection) of the Hero P2 that Captain Kirk holds, when Finney jabs the Captain in the back with the Spock P2 aka the "Finney"!

View attachment 1623901
Even in this photo I can see a forehead crack on the Hero P2 Captain Kirk is holding!

View attachment 1623897
And after enlarging the photo - you can not only see the forehead crack - you can see the nozzle is low on the P2 body...

View attachment 1623899
Comparing the above Hero closeup to the GJ prop left-side view scanner image, (Architect Elevation Cameras are very expensive - the prop was place on red material/padding and I believe the scanner was then placed on-top of the prop for a distortion/parallax free image), provides a good argument the GJ P2 was the Hero P2 that Captain Kirk held in this scene.

Thus I believe (now) the Greg Jein P2 was last filmed in episode 15, "Court-Martial".
Sure looks like it - good eye. Did you further enhance/ filter the high-res image? Unless that’s some odd artifact or shadow it does appear to match the crack on the GJ
 
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feek61

Sr Member
I looked at the blu-ray frame-by-frame of the entire scene, zoomed in and honestly, I would not call it conclusive evidence of it being the GJ. If it were, it would mean that the P1 was switched at some point since there is no velcro on it. I also believe the GJ side dial was glued in place (did not rotate) and the orientation does not match but still an interesting find.
 

ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hmmmmm…if this phaser is indeed cracked, it doesn’t appear to be cracked at the exact same spot, perhaps lower than the crack on the Jein.

I blew this up on my projector screen and the dark line looked like part of the side heat sink detail vs. a crack in the Phaser II body.

The possible crack is highlighted, below, which doesn’t seem to occupy the same position as the Jein Phaser’s crack.

049EF20B-B513-4154-8F30-CA969DF34BD7.jpeg


EFFA76B8-F928-4453-8FD5-BFB47EBD2EA4.jpeg
 

TOS Phaser

Member
Did you further enhance/ filter the high-res image?
No - However as I said - I grabbed this image (that was part of a collage of "Court-Martial" images) from the TPZ TOS Phaser thread - so it is possible that one of the "Mark English" group edited the photo...
 

TOS Phaser

Member
it would mean that the P1 was switched at some point since there is no velcro on it.
The switching of the P1s is something that was done quite a bit (IMO) in the first season - you can see it in particular with the B&W Hero P2s. In fact this is what I found in my examination of episodes 5, 6 and 7 - the two (IMO) P1s with Velcro were approximately the same size and shape as the two P1s without Velcro. I believe the 4 Hero P1s were routinely swapped depending on the script requirements for a given scene. Thus I think the three other Hero P2s: the Kirk, Spock and Scot (each with a Hero P1s) - consists of two Hero P1s without Velcro and one with Velcro.
 

TOS Phaser

Member
I originally thought the P2 Captain Kirk carried into Engineering was the "Unknown" P2 or the B&W Hero P2 that Captain Kirk holds in episodes 5 and 6. However - after looking at the close up images - I can see the P2 he carries in the "Court-Martial" episode is not the "Unknown" P2.

I will look at my Apple version of this episode (If I have it) and report back. These were packaged by Apple before the episodes were put on Blue Ray and before they were digitally enhanced.
 

feek61

Sr Member
The switching of the P1s is something that was done quite a bit (IMO) in the first season - you can see it in particular with the B&W Hero P2s. In fact this is what I found in my examination of episodes 5, 6 and 7 - the two (IMO) P1s with Velcro were approximately the same size and shape as the two P1s without Velcro. I believe the 4 Hero P1s were routinely swapped depending on the script requirements for a given scene. Thus I think the three other Hero P2s: the Kirk, Spock and Scot (each with a Hero P1s) - consists of two Hero P1s without Velcro and one with Velcro.
I don't believe there is any evidence that indicates the P1's were switched frequently, particularly since there would be no reason to do so. It is probable that they may have been switched around when the B&W's were converted to the grays but it would be hard to come up with a reason for them to be switched after since it would not matter for the plot of any of the stories. Further, I believe the evidence shows only 1 hero P1 had velcro on the side since all 4 have been identified and three do not have velcro. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post, I would be interested in seeing your proof.

Also, the 4 hero P2's have been identified so I'm not sure what "unknown" P2 hero you are talking about.
 

TOS Phaser

Member
I don't believe there is any evidence that indicates the P1's were switched frequently, particularly since there would be no reason to do so. It is probable that they may have been switched around when the B&W's were converted to the grays but it would be hard to come up with a reason for them to be switched after since it would not matter for the plot of any of the stories. Further, I believe the evidence shows only 1 hero P1 had velcro on the side since all 4 have been identified and three do not have velcro. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post, I would be interested in seeing your proof.

Also, the 4 hero P2's have been identified so I'm not sure what "unknown" P2 hero you are talking about.

One reason, that I can state that P1s were switched in the first season (In My Opinion) is because I observed in: episode 5, "The Enemy Within" and episode 6, "The Man Trap": two Hero P2s, each with Hero P1s, being worn on gold pistol belts at the same time, in the same scene by Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. (Also I believe in an earlier scene in episode 6, "The Man Trap", The Captain is wearing a Hero P2 and so is the young officer on their gold pistol belts.) The Hero P1s in these scenes are not the same thickness and they both had Velcro on the left side.

Another example of P1 switching is as follows:

The following photo was on the TPZ:
Unknown P2.jpg

This photo was labeled by the members of the TPZ (before I joined) as the "Unknown P2".

In my opinion the "Unknown P2" is the same B&W P2 that Captain Kirk carries and holds in episodes: 5 and 6:
Kirk B&W P2.png

The B&W Hero P2 in this cap does not contain the same Hero P1 as the "Unknown P2" photo. For one thing Captain Kirk pulls his Hero P2 off his belt. And you can see the P1 in this photo is thicker than the P1 in the "Unknown P2" photo. (You do not see Velcro on the left side of a Hero P1 until episode 7, "The Naked Time" - - IMO.)

In the following photo of the "Finney" P2 (with "TMOST" P1) compared to the "Unknown" P2 (with the "Nona" P1) - you can see the Hero P1s are not the same.
unknown P2.jpg

The shapes and sizes of these two P1s were different - just as the P2s are different.

If you are correct and there was only 1 Hero P1 with Velcro - then by your own admission - P1 swapping had to be done in the first season every time a Hero P2 was pulled off of a gold pistol belt!

I can not produce "proof" because I do not have access to all 4 Hero P1s. All I can do is express my opinion and provide photo evidence from the show. For example the following P2 comparison photo shows (In My Opinion) the same P2. I can write this because I have been carefully studying the B&W Hero P2 that Captain Kirk carried in episodes: 5 and 6. (The concentric, conical emitter is not the only clue.)
Kirk P2 compare.png

Also by the same reasoning I can state, In My Opinion: the Hero P1s shown in this comparison photo are not the same.

The following photo shows a Hero P1 with Velcro on the left side:
P2 Compare 2.png

This Hero P2 is not the Greg Jein - it has a conical emitter. The question is: does this photo comparison show the same Hero P1?

I saw the arguments and photo posts made by various members of the TPZ, back in the middle 2000s, who were trying to specify the Hero P1s.
I was not convinced by their arguments since, in my opinion, many of the attempts listed/showed the same Hero P1 twice.

You wrote: "...since all 4 [Hero P1s] have been identified...", I would be interested to see your "proof" that all 4 Hero P1s have been identified.
 
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robn1

Master Member
Kirk's phaser in the first "Court Martial" pic is the Riley/Lenore from "Conscience of the King", notice the short emitter tip.
Screenshot 2022-10-07 194022.png
 

TOS Phaser

Member
I don't believe there is any evidence that indicates the P1's were switched frequently, particularly since there would be no reason to do so. It is probable that they may have been switched around when the B&W's were converted to the grays but it would be hard to come up with a reason for them to be switched after since it would not matter for the plot of any of the stories. Further, I believe the evidence shows only 1 hero P1 had velcro on the side since all 4 have been identified and three do not have velcro. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post, I would be interested in seeing your proof.

Also, the 4 hero P2's have been identified so I'm not sure what "unknown" P2 hero you are talking about.
You wrote: "I believe the evidence shows only 1 hero P1 had velcro on the side since all 4 have been identified and three do not have velcro."

The following cap from episode 6, "The Man Trap" at approximately 32.X min reflects two Hero P2s hanging on two gold pistol belts:
Kirks Hero P2 in same shot as Spocks.png

This is the first combat scene on the planet - where Captain Kirk and Spock are confronting Dr. Crater.

And here is another cap a second later:
Two Hero P2s in the same shot.png

I believe with higher resolution caps of this scene - there would be no doubt that the two phasers shown in this
scene are in fact Hero P2s and not "plastic" P2s. I believe the P2 on Captain Kirk's gold pistol belt is the Scot P2.
It has a short concentric, cylindrical emitter and no screw on the right side near the nozzle - just like the Spock P2.

Here is a cap of the B&W Hero P2 that I believe is the 4th or Scot P2 (on Captain Kirk's gold pistol belt) made by the DPD:
scene at 34.19.png

This scene is at approximately 34.19min. You can see the short, concentric, cylindrical emitter and no screw near nozzle.
Scotty wears the same B&W Hero P2 on his gold pistol belt in episode 7, "The Naked Time" - except for the broken tombstones
on the power pack grip - it is the same B&W Hero P2:
Scotty wears the Scot P2 - episode 7.png
 

TOS Phaser

Member
Kirk's phaser in the first "Court Martial" pic is the Riley/Lenore from "Conscience of the King", notice the short emitter tip.
View attachment 1624602
Is the P1 release pin painted in the first Court high resolution shot?

I have been wrestling with the "Riley/Lenore" P2 for some time. At first I thought the Riley P2 was the 4th Hero B&W P2 with a short, concentric cylindrical emitter and then someone posted the following high resolution blue ray cap:
Riley P2 closeup.png

However the emitter on the Riley P2 is not cylindrical.

Then when I examined the P2 sight window on the Riley I do not see a P1 or a horseshoe:
I think the Riley P2 is the Scot P2.png

As I can clearly see on even low resolution images of the "Red Alert" P2:
Red Alert P2 - has a P1 in the sight window.png

And then there is the question of the Van Gelder P2 which was filmed in episode 11, "Dagger of the Mind" before episode 13, "Conscience of the King":
Dr. Van Gelder on the Bridge with a Highgrade P2.png

And during the final days of working on my book I discovered the Lenore P2 is not a "working" P2! The emitter does not light before the animated beam appears:
Lenore not a Hero P2.png

Compare the scene with Lenore firing her P2 at Captain Kirk with the scenes of Guytano and Latimer firing the same Hero P2 (the "Finney") in episode 14, "The Galileo Seven":
Guy P2.png

This image clearly shows the emitter is lit.
And comparing these two images shows how the emitter is brighter near the tip (which is typical in light inside conical optical glass):
Lat P2.png


I may be way off base - however I now believe the Riley/Lenore P2 is the same P2 that Dr. Van Gelder points at Captain Kirk and this P2 is what was refereed to in TMOST (4th sentence, page 273) as one the first "authentic-looking dummy phasers" the DPD made. At least 1 of the 4 "reworked" B&W Hero P2s were back from Wah Ming Chang and the DPD could have made a non-working, highly detailed P2 that closely resembled the reworked Hero P2s once the Desilu suits decided to stop using the very expensive Hero P2s.

ConscienceLenore.jpg

Notice how the sight window on the Lenore P2 has the same lumpy, milky white material behind the glass as the "Midgrade" P2s featured in episode 26, "The Devil in the Dark":
Lenore is a highly detailed dummy.png

In fact I think the Van Geldner/Riley/Lenore P2 was the DPDs first attempt to make "authentic-looking dummy phasers":
Lenore - Van Gelder Midgrade P2.png

Midgrades.png

Since we know, thanks to feek61, there were only 4 Hero P2s (with Hero P1s) made - If the Riley P2 had a cylindrical emitter I could agree the Riley was the 4th B&W Hero P2 with a non Velcro Hero P1 inserted for the shot. However I do not see either a horseshoe or P1 emitter in the Riley P2 sight window. I definitely do not see either in the Lenore P2 or the Van Gelder P2. The Riley/Lenore P2s have Hero parts such as a "ten-turn" instead of a washer. It has been pointed out that the Riley and Lenore both have the same raised screw on the bottom rear.
 
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robn1

Master Member
I do not see either a horseshoe or P1 emitter in the Riley P2 sight window. I definitely do not see either in the Lenore P2 or the Van Gelder P2.
Lighting/shadows and angle all affect what can be seen through the window. And since that phaser has a short retracted tip, it could be due to the yoke not extending properly.

Is the P1 release pin painted in the first Court high resolution shot?
Yes.
 
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TOS Phaser

Member
The image on the right is what I saw - the emitter tip is not very bright (compared to other Hero P2s firing - such as the Finney P2 in Galileo 7 and I could not freeze a frame - where the emitter was lit first - as I can with every other Hero P2 firing.

Also the animated beam appears to start inside the nozzle...

This scene is relatively dark - compared to the scenes where Guytano and Latimer fire the Finney P2 where the emitter tip is much brighter.

OK so if the emitter on the Riley/Lenore P2 is a short concentric, cylinder (it looks conical to me) as was the case on the Kirk P2 / "Unknown" P2 - which would make it the 4th B&W Hero P2 to be filmed in episode 6, "The Man Trap" - then perhaps the battery in the power pack grip was dead and the P1 is not a Hero. Because I should be able to see the P1 sight window in the Riley P2 - where light and angle cannot be argued - and I do not.

I would love to know which Hero P2s Lenard Nimoy had in his collection...
 

ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I would love to know which Hero P2s Lenard Nimoy had in his collection...
There is no evidence that Nimoy had any TOS props.

I believe that the only things that he ever confirmed as having were a pair of ears that he kept in a shadow box and some scripts.
 

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