Star Trek: Picard

[Captain Dunsel]

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Picard premiere dates and more revealed at NYCC http://bit.ly/NYCCPicard

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Now I have to admit, as cynical as I’ve become about the “Discovery Era” of Trek...the scenes with Riker and Picard truly touched my reactionary, toxic, and perpetually unsatisfied heart. How could any fan not like seeing that??

If “STP” were to be nothing more than a series about a retired Picard having reunions and catching up with the old TNG crew, without a “fate of the entire galaxy hangs in the balance” storyline, I would still happily tune in.

Oh those juicy, succulent, ‘Member Berries...

 

[CessnaDriver]

Fool me once.
I'll not watch until prime timeline verified after premiere.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

The budget for Data’s wig apparently is not very much. Looks like it was purchased from the Halloween store.

The TNG era costumes in that scene look pretty ill-fitting as well—especially around the collar area; almost Rubies quality In appearance.

 

[Apollo]

I highly doubt Paramount has any left, everything has pretty much been auctioned off.

I know Patrick has one of his Costumes from TNG, but he ain’t hauling that thing out!

Him or his children will cash that thing in big time one day!

The TNG era costumes in that scene look pretty ill-fitting as well—especially around the collar area; almost Rubies quality In appearance.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

So this is an alternate timeline? No sale.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

I highly doubt Paramount has any left, everything has pretty much been auctioned off.

I know Patrick has one of his Costumes from TNG, but he ain’t hauling that thing out!

Him or his children will cash that thing in big time one day!

I saw an interview online where Stewart said that they used his uniform for the scene. By used, he rented it to them for the show!

 

[NakedMoleRat]

So this is an alternate timeline? No sale.

I think that they are trying to tie in the best of both worlds. When Spock tried to save the Romulan sun and went back in time, Picard’s current timeline carried one, one where Romulans are endangered.

The time Spock went to is now the the new timeline and when “that” Picard is born and grows up, he will be on that pathway.

 

[Apollo]

Good for him last time I heard him talk about it was that he had it under lock and key!

I saw an interview online where Stewart said that they used his uniform for the scene. By used, he rented it to them for the show!

 

[The Terminator]

Fool me once.
I'll not watch until prime timeline verified after premiere.

It's very much connected to the 2009 film so it's definitely the prime timeline, as in NOT Canon Star Trek.
They have been referencing the 2009 4-part prequel comic "Countdown" from the start.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I think that they are trying to tie in the best of both worlds. When Spock tried to save the Romulan sun and went back in time, Picard’s current timeline carried one, one where Romulans are endangered.

The time Spock went to is now the the new timeline and when “that” Picard is born and grows up, he will be on that pathway.

Nope. The fission point is further back. Probably First Contact. Things were already different in Trek09 than they'd been in the original canon. Chekov's parents apparently met and had a baby a decade earlier, for instance. Shipbuilding is vastly different. NX-01 Enterprise -- which is part of this universe and doesn't fit the original canon (bad finale ignored) was approximately the tech level of the original NCC-1701 (and with one or two refits after the series was cancelled, is getting close to the same volume and engine output), while the NCC-1701 we see in Trek09 is roughly the size and tech level of the canon NCC-1701-D.

They've been trying to insist that Discovery and Picard are part of the original TOS-VOY canon, but they just don't fit, and I get mad at people who have worked on both who toe the party line. I heard KRAD talking at the Star Trek panel at ECCC last Spring and it made me furious. He was one of the better authors of the ancillary fiction back in the late '90s/early '00s and knows the lore amazingly well. To hear him saying, no, it's all the same timeline, and if you think it's an alternate universe you're just a hater... Ooo! I know you like your paycheck, Kieth, but a little moral integrity would be nice.

So no. If a Jen-Luc Picard is ever, in fact, born, as the timelines continue to diverge, it may not be in the same place or at the same time, and he may or may not choose to enter Starfleet, may or may not be in a position to take command of the Stargazer, may or may not lose it to a Ferengi sneak attack, may or may not gain enough clout over the decade following his court-martial that he ends up with the Federation flagship, but that ship won't be the canon NCC-1701-D. There's a whole lot of "same-but-different" between the original and Enterprise timelines, but it definitely is not a one-to-one mapping.

 

[Strikerkc]

So this is an alternate timeline? No sale.

I guess I don't get the hate for things on the new time line. The fact that the whole Enterprise crew was STILL brought together by fate, even under new circumstances, seemed to imply that the universe WANTED them together, to accomplish their tasks.

To me it implied that the gist of everything we'd seen in the non Kelvin timeline, would still take place in their respective orders. Works for me.

 

[The Terminator]

I guess I don't get the hate for things on the new time line. The fact that the whole Enterprise crew was STILL brought together by fate, even under new circumstances, seemed to imply that the universe WANTED them together, to accomplish their tasks.

To me it implied that the gist of everything we'd seen in the non Kelvin timeline, would still take place in their respective orders. Works for me.

Same as "I accept any BS these hacks come up with."

The fact that they all ended up together, again... *might* have something to do with, well you know earning money from sheep.

John Connor said it best: "easy money".

 

[Strikerkc]

View attachment 1066853

Same as "I accept any BS these hacks come up with."

The fact that they all ended up together, again... *might* have something to do with, well you know earning money from sheep.

John Connor said it best: "easy money".

I accept any story line as long as it's still fun to watch on it's own terms. Kelvin is fun for me. It's all fiction, even your precious "prime" timeline. If each individual story is fun, it doesn't matter what it's hooked to.

Why aren't you out there demanding the "prime" timeline where Earth was destroyed in star trek iv? Instead of saved by time traveling with whales? How about a separate timeline for every instance where time had been messed with in the show? In fact, I demand all parts of Star trek set after the time traveler with holes in his face for a nose visited Westley in TNG be NULLIFIED and IGNORED. He altered the timeline slightly by showing up. I want my PRIME timeline where Westley never met him back!

How is time traveling with whales more acceptable than a murderous romulan?

Even if you don't buy that "most things panned out the same", you DO know you're allowed to like more than one version if something, right?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Okay. 1) Could do with no more time travel in Trek ever. Could do with retconning as much of the existing time travel in Trek out as we could, too (special dispensations for Q and the Guardian of Forever).

2) Star Trek IV is more of a "continuum-model" story -- i.e., if anyone had been paying attention at the time, two humpback whales recently released at sea disappeared and were presumed illegally hunted, and the marine biologist who had spent years working with them also vanished, presumed dead. Her coworker Dr. Bob Briggs mentioned she was unusually distraught be the whales' release and might even have gone off somewhere to commit suicide. No remains were ever found... but, then again, it is scary how many missing people are never found, how many John and Jane Does are sitting unidentified in ME's coolers, and how infrequently a lot of those are ever resolved. It was central to the movie, but as far as late-'80s Trek Earth, hardly anyone would have noticed, let alone commented. Kirk and Co. went back because they'd always gone back.

P.S. I hate time travel.

Incidentally, while I do enjoy TVH -- and TWOK and TUC -- my most rewatched Trek films are actually TSFS (even though I prefer Kirstie Alley's Saavik) and TFF. Reduced budgets and other production issues aside, those movies are better Trek than most of the others. And I'd like TMP more if a) it weren't a retread of "The Changeling", b) the uniforms and bridge weren't so relentlessly beige, and c) Roddenberry had made Kirk the commander of the mission, while Decker retained command of the ship -- common practice in most navies over the years...

3) "Everyone ended up together on the Enterprise" by utter contrivance rather than organic backstory. Rather than Kirk being a serious and dedicated student who entered Starfleet at 17 and was utterly focused on being a model officer, rose rapidly through the ranks, commanded a Destroyer after the conflicts of the 2250s, was granted command of the Enterprise in his early 30s, where he encountered Spock, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov for the first time, and requested McCoy as his CMO after having been his patient while recovering from the incident on the Farragut, th elatter having already joined Starfleet on his own...

Instead, we now have Kirk meeting half his crew at the Academy (McCoy on the shuttle to), Chekov is a decade younger to be shoehorned in, and Kirk goes from Academy cadet on academic probation for disobedience... to Captain of the Enterprise. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200. This was all, of course, before Scotty rendered starships obsolete by beaming people across interstellar distances to a starship that was travelling at high warp speed.

I have no problem with new stories, in new timelines, provided they're good. There are parts of Enterprise I like. There are parts of the trilogy of new Trek films I like. There are even a few scattered parts of Discovery I like. But in general they're dreck, not Trek. Anti-intellectual flash that embodies the George Lucas quote, "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing". If the premise falls apart if you stop to think about it for even a second, it's not good Trek.

Whether they have to ignore forty years of established worldbuilding because of stupid business reasons, or deliberately ignore forty years of established worldbuilding out of creative laziness/ineptitude, I don't care -- I'd rather they place a moritorium on new Trek content until they can get the rights sorted and the people hired to do it right.

 

[CessnaDriver]

It's very much connected to the 2009 film so it's definitely the prime timeline, as in NOT Canon Star Trek.
They have been referencing the 2009 4-part prequel comic "Countdown" from the start.

Well then I'm out. I'll assume Vulcan still went BOOM too.
Not my Picard. I'm not going to jump through hoops to make it so. Pun intended.
I'll just imagine him the space archeologist exploring still as he always wanted to do.
Pity.

 

[Joek3rr]

Nope. The fission point is further back. Probably First Contact. Things were already different in Trek09 than they'd been in the original canon. Chekov's parents apparently met and had a baby a decade earlier, for instance. Shipbuilding is vastly different. NX-01 Enterprise -- which is part of this universe and doesn't fit the original canon (bad finale ignored) was approximately the tech level of the original NCC-1701 (and with one or two refits after the series was cancelled, is getting close to the same volume and engine output), while the NCC-1701 we see in Trek09 is roughly the size and tech level of the canon NCC-1701-D.

They've been trying to insist that Discovery and Picard are part of the original TOS-VOY canon, but they just don't fit, and I get mad at people who have worked on both who toe the party line. I heard KRAD talking at the Star Trek panel at ECCC last Spring and it made me furious. He was one of the better authors of the ancillary fiction back in the late '90s/early '00s and knows the lore amazingly well. To hear him saying, no, it's all the same timeline, and if you think it's an alternate universe you're just a hater... Ooo! I know you like your paycheck, Kieth, but a little moral integrity would be nice.

So no. If a Jen-Luc Picard is ever, in fact, born, as the timelines continue to diverge, it may not be in the same place or at the same time, and he may or may not choose to enter Starfleet, may or may not be in a position to take command of the Stargazer, may or may not lose it to a Ferengi sneak attack, may or may not gain enough clout over the decade following his court-martial that he ends up with the Federation flagship, but that ship won't be the canon NCC-1701-D. There's a whole lot of "same-but-different" between the original and Enterprise timelines, but it definitely is not a one-to-one mapping.

How does the Picard show not fit? Discovery I understand, but Picard?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

How does the Picard show not fit? Discovery I understand, but Picard?

At this point, it's just a general "off-ness" I'm feeling. The uniforms and badge already established for this period being ignored, the look of everything from the buildings to the ships, the question I figure they'll answer about how B-4 became Data, why Data is ageing, the snippets of non-reunion dialogue feeling very Discovery-y...

I do not expect adherence to continuity with the current holders of the creative power. Currently making bets with myself how far in we'll get before the first real research blunder or continuity cringe. While this show seems to be actually Prime Timeline, as opposed to Discovery, which claims it is but so very isn't, the Prime Timeline itself only has about an 80% overlap with the TOS-VOY canon. Remember that the term was created by CBS to indicate their interpretation of the origial 1966-2001/02 (I have a hard time including Nemesis -- or, really, any of the TNG stuff after Picard goes into the Nexus) body of work, not the works themselves.

 

[Joek3rr]

At this point, it's just a general "off-ness" I'm feeling. The uniforms and badge already established for this period being ignored, the look of everything from the buildings to the ships, the question I figure they'll answer about how B-4 became Data, why Data is ageing, the snippets of non-reunion dialogue feeling very Discovery-y...

I do not expect adherence to continuity with the current holders of the creative power. Currently making bets with myself how far in we'll get before the first real research blunder or continuity cringe. While this show seems to be actually Prime Timeline, as opposed to Discovery, which claims it is but so very isn't, the Prime Timeline itself only has about an 80% overlap with the TOS-VOY canon. Remember that the term was created by CBS to indicate their interpretation of the origial 1966-2001/02 (I have a hard time including Nemesis -- or, really, any of the TNG stuff after Picard goes into the Nexus) body of work, not the works themselves.

I didn't realize there was already established uniforms and badges for the period. I'm not up on my Star Trek as much as my Star Wars I learn something every day.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I didn't realize there was already established uniforms and badges for the period. I'm not up on my Star Trek as much as my Star Wars I learn something every day.

TNG got there first with "All Good Things..." in 2395. I get the feeling this was early in that uniform's use, as Admiral Riker still had the previous style flag uniform:

Even though it came out later, in-universe Voyager is next in 2404:

And DS9's outing was in 2422:

 

[The Terminator]

I accept any story line as long as it's still fun to watch on it's own terms. Kelvin is fun for me. It's all fiction, even your precious "prime" timeline. If each individual story is fun, it doesn't matter what it's hooked to.

Why aren't you out there demanding the "prime" timeline where Earth was destroyed in star trek iv? Instead of saved by time traveling with whales? How about a separate timeline for every instance where time had been messed with in the show? In fact, I demand all parts of Star trek set after the time traveler with holes in his face for a nose visited Westley in TNG be NULLIFIED and IGNORED. He altered the timeline slightly by showing up. I want my PRIME timeline where Westley never met him back!

How is time traveling with whales more acceptable than a murderous romulan?

Even if you don't buy that "most things panned out the same", you DO know you're allowed to like more than one version if something, right?

The "Prime" BS was invented for the 2009 alternate license reboot crap.

Here, learn a thing or two:

Or if you're a bit lazy and want a shorter version: