Star Trek Nemesis Data...is he

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nickytea

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
You're not the only person that liked Nemesis. And there's nothing wrong with you for liking it.

Don't take the exhaustive reductions of those here as any kind of conclusive ruling. They often can't see past their own straw-grasping obsession with illusive "continuity" and realize how inconsiderate their comments can be read.

Man, for extolling the virtues of "Trek" and how much certain installments don't inhabit them, a lot of you guys don't seem to show any of that signature optimism in the way you treat the people that have an opinion that differs from yours.

"Jeyl: Ensuring Trek threads die an embarrassing, hypocritical death since 2009."
 

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nickytea

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Excepting of course that Kirk's first middle name was something with an R.

Go re-watch Where No MAN Has Gone Before.

So where is Canon now?

Expecting EVERYTHING to follow canon in something as large as Star Trek is a fools errand.
QFT.
Each story stands on its own. Any branch between them is a gift to be celebrated. Any branch that doesn't quite reach needn't be a reason to cut down the tree and deem it ineffective or "non-canon."
 

DarkKnight

Sr Member
I liked Nemesis, but did not like the way data "died" and "lived" in B4, his "death" showed that even though he was a machine he learned to be human and his sacrifice shows this I wish they had some way for him to return better than they had, a floating in space Data head or something at the end
 

Jeyl

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Excepting of course that Kirk's first middle name was something with an R.

Go re-watch Where No MAN Has Gone Before.

So where is Canon now?

Expecting EVERYTHING to follow canon in something as large as Star Trek is a fools errand.
Who's to say what that R really meant? It could have been an insult to Kirk that only Mitchell knew.

And really, mistakes happen. Sometimes more glaring in the series itself than in any novel, comic or game. After all, we got Spock smiling in The Cage, we have the Enterprise crew forgetting that the Romulans have cloaking devices, we have Picard welcoming Wesley onto the bridge promising more opportunities in the future, than stating that he's been completely banned from the bridge the next time we see him, we have the Borg state that they will assimilate all forms of life to bring them closer to perfection, but refuse to assimilate certain species because they won't bring them perfection....? We have a research station that genetically modifies people on the whim when it's completely illegal in every other episode, we have Troi saying she's never kissed Riker with a beard when in fact they have, we have Data breathing in the series (Stated by Bashir and confirmed by Data) but he doesn't breath in the movies, Data is almost immobilized when Troi accidentally hits him with an arrow, but Data is functioning perfectly after being shot with a machine gun to both his back and his chest, we have Data's emotion chip not only changing size, shape and color, but also it's function from being fused into his neural net and cannot be removed, being able to be shut down in the next movie to not even having it brought up in the last, we have Worf accepting the title of Ambassador only to return to the Enterprise in Nemesis with no explanation, we have Picard with a fill set of hair when he was young, but now he was completely bald in Nemesis, Klingon blood is red in the series, but pink in the undiscovered country.

All of this and many, many more are considered canon, yet a comic book that explains Nero's motivation and why his ship is so freaking un-Star Trek is not. Sounds stupid if you ask me.
 

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Apollo

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Shame on you! ;)

If the Great bird of the galaxy was still alive he would leave you a nice present as he flew by over head! :lol


Expecting EVERYTHING to follow canon in something as large as Star Trek is a fools errand.
 

Apollo

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Knowing Frakes, like I do, he would be doing Trek in his 80's wheeled about in a wheelchair pushed by a cranky Worf! :lol

A friend of mine supposedly ran into Frakes at a pub in Ireland or England. Anyway, from what I remember of the story, Frakes said no one was happy with the way it ended, and he had been trying to, and at least at the point said friend talked to him, in getting everyone together for one more movie or get a new series going.

Sadly, neither happened.
 

Jeyl

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Canon is what "officially" happened
I don't think even Gene knows what he was doing when he instigated this whole canon rule. He wrote an episode in the original series that openly states how women cannot become Captains of a Starship. That was finally overturned when Gene left the producer's chair, and finally Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett introduced us to the first female captain in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

That's not to say that all of Gene's canon ideas were terrible. For instance, he didn't consider Star Trek V canon, and for very good reasons. In fact, he had a pretty solid idea for the Enterprise A coming into being. Since Star Trek III considered the refit Constitution Class as not up to spec with every other Federation starship, why would the Federation build a new one, and so quickly after the whale probe encounter? He argued that the Enterprise A was in fact the York Town, a Constitution class vessel that was disabled by the Probe. Rather than give Kirk the brand new Excelsior after disobeying orders, they decided to re-christian the York Town as the Enterprise A. I for one am happy with this canon decision since not only does Star Trek VI carry on the story of the genesis trilogy, but also removes a lot of glaring, self-indulging inconsistencies that Shatner brought to the table.

And V isn't the only instance where the powers at Star Trek decided to cut finished products out of canon. Voyager's Threshold was a painful example. Not only does that episode not get mentioned, the show even has Paris stating he's never done Transwarp before. Here's an example at how scientifically aware the writers were on this episode. If you add 1 to any number, it will come out as 0. That's how bad the science is.
 

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DuneMuadDib

Sr Member
Well thankfully some of Gene's lesser ideas were retconned in later canon when he didn't have as much of a say in matters.

Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas share a common weakness IMO. They're great with coming up with concepts, but when they have too much control over the execution the results are lacking. TNG got a lot better when Gene lost control, the movies got better (overall) when Gene lost control.

For years the animated series wasn't considered canon either. When it came out on DVD or Blu-Ray Paramount changed their minds. It's at least partly canon based on all the references to things from in the official canon, even if most of those references are from Enterprise.

Hell, Enterprise is now the most canon Trek series, since it wasn't affected by the time travel of '09 Trek; it's canon in two continuities.
 

Funky

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I didn't hate Nemesis and I can pretty much live with all the inconsistancies. The only one that really bugged me was Wesley. Why the hell was he wearing a Starfleet uniform??? When we last saw him he left with the Traveler to...well, travel. He even said that he always felt Starfleet was not for him and that his path was intended for something different, so he left with this alien on some intergalactic, soul-searching quest to find what he was really destined to do. Now we find him quietly seated in the audience of the wedding party. No lines, no close-up, no explaination. I can live with him coming back for Riker and Troi's wedding. Fine. But back in Starfleet???
Funny story. My wife being a much bigger TNG fan than I (I'm TOS all the way, baby!) had watched Nemesis several times and loved it. Just last year we watched it together and I couldn't believe I saw Wesley sitting there in his uniform. We were amazed that we never noticed him there before which of course prompted the whole "why is Wesley there?" conversation. It's almost as if the producers felt that they needed the entire cast in the movie and almost hoping nobody would notice his presence while still being able to say everybody was there.
Well, except Tasha. I guess they couldn't BS ANY excuse to bring her in. :lol
 

Zombie_61

Master Member
Well we do know that Brent Spiner was last seen selling MIB LCDR Data action figures out of the back of his car in the Pasadena, California area.:lol
Bazinga! (y)thumbsup

Apart from my personal dislike of Nemesis, there was one thing I found curious in light of Brent Spiner's reluctance to continue playing a character who aged considerably slower than humans: Why would they kill off Data, then replace him with a physically identical character who would have to be played by Brent Spiner if another sequel had been greenlighted? To me it seems a more likely explanation that Spiner was tired of playing Data and, as an actor, would perhaps find playing B4 new and more interesting.
 

Monster Dave

Sr Member
^ and don't forget that data was 'killed' once before:



-and I thought that was a much better way to kill data and still come full circle.
 

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YenChih Lin

Sr Member
Well thankfully some of Gene's lesser ideas were retconned in later canon when he didn't have as much of a say in matters.

Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas share a common weakness IMO. They're great with coming up with concepts, but when they have too much control over the execution the results are lacking. TNG got a lot better when Gene lost control, the movies got better (overall) when Gene lost control.
I agree here!

Hell, Enterprise is now the most canon Trek series, since it wasn't affected by the time travel of '09 Trek; it's canon in two continuities.
Not canon for me buddy… :behave
 

dbalschi

Sr Member
I didn't hate Nemesis and I can pretty much live with all the inconsistancies. The only one that really bugged me was Wesley. Why the hell was he wearing a Starfleet uniform??? When we last saw him he left with the Traveler to...well, travel. He even said that he always felt Starfleet was not for him and that his path was intended for something different, so he left with this alien on some intergalactic, soul-searching quest to find what he was really destined to do. Now we find him quietly seated in the audience of the wedding party. No lines, no close-up, no explaination. I can live with him coming back for Riker and Troi's wedding. Fine. But back in Starfleet???
Funny story. My wife being a much bigger TNG fan than I (I'm TOS all the way, baby!) had watched Nemesis several times and loved it. Just last year we watched it together and I couldn't believe I saw Wesley sitting there in his uniform. We were amazed that we never noticed him there before which of course prompted the whole "why is Wesley there?" conversation. It's almost as if the producers felt that they needed the entire cast in the movie and almost hoping nobody would notice his presence while still being able to say everybody was there.
Well, except Tasha. I guess they couldn't BS ANY excuse to bring her in. :lol

I know deleted scenes don't count but there is a deleted scene on the collector's-edition DVD features a brief conversation between Wesley and Picard: Wesley, now a lieutenant in operations-division gold, has returned to Starfleet and is a member of Captain Riker's engineering crew on the USS Titan.
 

0neiros

Master Member
OK keep this under your hats, during his academy days, Picard had a one night stand with some Rigellian chick, and she had Melevganian crabs. As you know Melevganian crabs don't just restrict themselves to the pubic area and take a long time to eradicate.

It's just lucky that in his academy pic, he had recently been able to grow back his eyebrows. He decided to go bald (and I mean everywhere) for a while, as he still wasn't going to be picky about whom to have low-G encounters with.
 

GeneralFROSTY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I don't hate Nemesis, but considering all its flaws and liberties taken with the characters, I don't like it either.
It's an incredible shame that this movie represents the last adventure of this crew. I always thought it would be nice to do a TV special; one last mission for the crew to send them off as nicely as was done for the original crew in ST VI.
 

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