Star Trek Nemesis Data...is he

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DarkKnight

Sr Member
spoiler if you havent seen this movie












his last words the "goodbye" were so powerful, do you think he still lives, was there ever a sequel written? "Star Trek the Search for Data"?
 

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lordtalon

New Member
Last I heard, there was no official sequal written, but I believe that there is a novel or two out there where Data's mind had been backed up in B4 and he was slowly taking over.
 

DuneMuadDib

Sr Member
It's clearly set up for him to come back. The comic book prequels to the latest Star Trek which show the destruction of Romulus and the Nero/Spock interaction show Data revived in B4's body as captain of the Enterprise-E.
 

Roland

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
In my opinion all those comic books and novels don't count. Canon is just what we see in the TV shows and movies.
 

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tgreco

Sr Member
it was billed as "A Generations Final Journey Begins"

I don't think there was a sequel ever planned
 

SSgt Burton

Sr Member
I see no need for a spoiler alert as the movie is already very spoiled. ;) :sick


In my opinion all those comic books and novels don't count. Canon is just what we see in the TV shows and movies.
Seconded.


However much like Spock's "Katra" they pretty much set it up (as already mentioned) that B4 would evolve into Data II.

In Nemesis-

Data sings "Blue Skies" at Troi and Riker's wedding reception...

Data downloads all his memory patterns etc into B4...

Data scarifices himself to save the day...

B4 sings the first verse (with a little help) of "Blue Skies."


So it's pretty blatant that (if the movie didn't completely suck rotten eggs and fail miserably at the box office) they planned on having B4 "learn" to be Data in the next film(s). This would probably have been a rehash of Spock's retraining going from "'Your name is Jim!' Spock" in ST:III to "Rainman 'I liked him better before he died' Spock" in ST:IV & V to "Good old Spock" in ST:VI.


But as it stands the TNG era movies are forever over and done with. So we are left with Data dead, and a glimmer that B4 remembers who he was.


Kevin
 

Jeyl

Master Member
his last words the "goodbye" were so powerful
:lol

Not really.

For a film that was supposed to be the last voyage of a long loved cast of characters, it was instead handed to a man who didn't care about Star Trek and couldn't give the time to pronounce the actor's names right. Stuart Baird, John Logan and Rick Berman are the three individuals who succeeded in doing what William Shatner almost did. Kill the franchise. With Patrick Stewart's big popularity boost with the X-men films and his enormous salary to take part in the movie, the film's story was written to be so Picard focused that the only way it could glorify Picard more than ever done previously was to do things that were out of character and cringingly stupid.

For example, Patrick Stewart loves driving. He says it all over the behind the scenes videos. How do we get Picard into a car chase with guns and explosions while fitting in with the rest of the story and his character's principles? The film's answer? You don't. Just stick it in there and don't worry if it has anything to do with anything established. The aliens on the planet will never be referenced again, Picard attacking and killing pre-warp natives while doing nothing to be stealthy is never mentioned, and his attitude regarding the Federation Principles that beat us over the head again and again about the Prime Directive isn't even a factor.

Oh, and remember how much the film tried to convey that how one experiences life will shape him/her to be the person they will be in the future? And how sometimes there is an urge to be a better person? Well, when Picard has Shinzon right in his ready room, does he tell Shinzon about what his academy days were like? Did Picard tell Shinzon that one day he picked a fight with an aggressive alien who stabbed him through the heart and must now use an artificial heart that must be maintained periodically? No. Instead, Picard tells Shinzon that his heart is the same as his.

:facepalm

And the part to become a better man? Shinzon started out as an experiment, abandoned to the mines, worked his way up with his Reman comrades, and managed to over throw ALL OF THE ROMULAN EMPIRE. So from Shinzon's point of view, all Picard is telling Shinzon is "You could be nice every once in a while".

And this whole thing involving Data and B4 was also heavily mismanaged. This could have been LORE, or another attempt at Lore since Data was made first. So instead of taking every precautions with another Data that has proven in the past to be a psycho path murderer, Data and Picard agree that giving all of Data's memories to B4 is the right thing to do. Not his behavior perimeters, not his reasoning programs, and not even basic Federation knowledge. ALL HIS MEMORIES. How can they be this stupid?

This is why I don't like either Nemesis or Trek09. Both have stories with bland stories, annoying dumb villains who only matter because the plot just threw them a bone (Shinzon with Thaleron, Nero with Red Matter), and it was all made to try appealing to a wider audience. The only reason Trek09 succeeded was because it managed to be entertaining.

Nemesis felt like saying goodbye to your dog of many years in the worst way possible. Instead of being with him/her on their final day and making sure they're comfortable and loved, someone else comes in and decides to do it for you. Not only can they not remember your dog's name, but they drag the dog outside, shoot it in the head and won't even give you the decency of knowing where your dog was buried. All of that and they still expect a tip and a pat on the back for a job well done.
 
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Apollo

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
That was the last Next Gen Movie there were going to be no more.

Brent also had great input to killing off Data as he felt he was to old to portray him anymore.

I saw him a few years later and asked him if they threw a bunch of money his way would he do it and he said no not that the studios would :lol


So it's pretty blatant that (if the movie didn't completely suck rotten eggs and fail miserably at the box office) they planned on having B4 "learn" to be Data in the next film(s).
 

Jeyl

Master Member
That was the last Next Gen Movie there were going to be no more.

Brent also had great input to killing off Data as he felt he was to old to portray him anymore.

I saw him a few years later and asked him if they threw a bunch of money his way would he do it and he said no not that the studios would :lol
So why all the hints that he could come back?
 

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darthgordon

Sr Member
As I understand it, some were banking on it being the last TNG movie, while others were not.

The studio was already pushing Rick Berman to retire the TNG cast and go with a younger one. They felt the cast was getting too old to maintain their appeal.

Patrick Stewart was getting tired of playing Picard. He was open to the idea of doing another movie... but was leaning more toward ending it. He wanted to do other things.

Brent Spiner felt that he was getting too old to play an android that wasn't supposed to age or if did, aged more slowly that humans. At this point, he had a lot of pull and was friends with the writer. So he pushed to kill Data off.

The rest of the cast was ready to do more movies, but was growing unhappy with the fact that they'd started to become background characters.

Berman wasn't quite ready to give up on the TNG cast but had to accept the possibility that it might be the last movie. He was banking on Nemesis being a big enough success to get the green light for another movie.

So the ending is intentionally left with the possibility of another movie. But since the studio was already wanting to retire the TNG crew and the box office numbers were beyond disappointing, it pretty much put the final nail in the coffin.

Now as we know, if it's not on the screen it isn't canon. So there's no canonical answer to this question.

Obviously, because of this, the comics and books set after Nemesis are not considered canon. However, since there will never be another TNG movie ( :( too bad THAT had to be their swan song), I prefer to take the explanation that Data's mind emerged in B4 and he continues his career in Starfleet for several years.
 

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phase pistol

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Where teh heck did Shinzon get yet ANOTHER totally unknown Soong android in the first place?! :cry

That's what I kept screaming throughout the entire film. :D

k
 

0neiros

Master Member
Those saying those comics are Non Canon are mistaken. They tell the back story leading up to Trek 09. The whole loss of Romulus, The Jellyfish, Red Matter, WHY Nero hates Vulcans (they basically stonewalled things in the Federation Council, until there was no saving Romulus) where the Narada came from, (which is a part Borg ship if you didn't know or couldn't guess). If you read them, THEN watch The movie, things make a Hell of a lot more sense. What saddens me is the the studios just feel that a movie like Trek 09 HAS to fit in the 90-120 minute span, when if you gave it another 30 minutes to clarify things, would make a superior product. Hey Studios...30 more minutes = people needing more food and drink, which = more $$$.
 

darthgordon

Sr Member
According to Dr. Tainer, there were three androids created before Lore. Each of them experienced a cascade failure in their neural nets. Shinzon would have had to have procured one and repaired it. Of course, this seems far fetched given that even Dr. Soong couldn't repair them.

But then again, the movie is wrought with problems...

Schinzon assassinates the Romulan Senate and is simply allowed to take over as Praetor.

The Enterprise is able to detect a positronic signal from light years away.

Worf appears out of nowhere in a Starfleet uniform, even though he was supposed to be the ambassador to Kronos.

There's a tiny emergency transporter that's a fraction the size of the standard transporter, but for some reason there's only one of them on a ship full of replicators, scientists and engineers. It somehow not only beams a person, but itself. This means that it has to dematerialize itself and while it's dematerialized, rematerialize not only the person in transport, but itself.

Picard was bald at the Academy and knew Dr. Crusher.

Say nothing of the characters acting out of character and the hollow villain, the missed opportunities that could have been done with the Romulans and Lore...
 

DuneMuadDib

Sr Member
Hey Studios...30 more minutes = people needing more food and drink, which = more $$$.
Do you buy more food and drink for a movie that's 2 and a half hours long than one that's two hours long?

I think you've got the economics backwards there. Longer movies are bad for the theaters because they can't cycle as many bodies through showing a 2.5 hour movie four times a day verses a 2 hour movie five times a day. That extra half hour of length is one extra showing they lose over a ten hour period which means lost ticket sales and lost concession sales from those lost ticket sales. Kids movies are awesome for theaters: they're short so the theater can run more showings a day, a parent or two has to take the kids, and the kids all want candy and popcorn and soda.
 

DuneMuadDib

Sr Member
Schinzon assassinates the Romulan Senate and is simply allowed to take over as Praetor.
Well he did have a lot of military support from the Remans. How much resistance is a guy with a ship that can blow up the planet and just assassinated the entire governing body going to get? I'm fuzzy on the TNG Romulan government stuff, but is there anything that contradicts the Roman senate kill to get promoted schtick?

Worf appears out of nowhere in a Starfleet uniform, even though he was supposed to be the ambassador to Kronos.
We can't just all assume he changed jobs again? That's Worf's thing (aside from being tossed around like a rag doll in TNG to show how strong the bad guy race of the week was). Seem to recall there was deleted dialogue referencing him and Wesley rejoining Starfleet and planning to join Riker on the Titan.

There's a tiny emergency transporter that's a fraction the size of the standard transporter, but for some reason there's only one of them on a ship full of replicators, scientists and engineers. It somehow not only beams a person, but itself. This means that it has to dematerialize itself and while it's dematerialized, rematerialize not only the person in transport, but itself.
The only way that makes sense to me is if it's a signal booster or something. They also forget that there are cargo transporters separate from the personnel ones, and that most if not all of the shuttlecraft should have transporters as well on their own power supplies.

Picard was bald at the Academy and knew Dr. Crusher.
What, they don't have razors in the future? He couldn't have just gone through a phase in the Academy between bar fights and and getting stabbed in the heart where he shaved his head?
 

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