Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

Khan? Really? Khan? We have a whole blank universe to play with, and we go straight for Khan? And I'm sorry, you just can't do better than Ricardo Montalban, so why try? I really think the writers are really stuck.

Like I said earlier, it's not that they used Khan that bothers me, it's that they took Khan at face value and said "done!". Here we have an evil madman hell bent on revenge and will flat out murder people for no real reason. The original Khan had a bit more character than that. He wasn't some soldier who was created to bring peace to a war torn world, he was a product from which scientists hoped to improve the human race. And when they became smart enough, Khan and his followers decided that the world would be better under his rule. He didn't massacre anyone, he didn't wage war against other countries, and in the end, chose to leave Earth rather than stay behind to conquer it.

Kirk: I'd like those answers now. First, the purpose of your star flight.
Khan: A new life, a chance to build a world. Other things I doubt you would understand.

THAT right there is motivation that stems from his years of ruling on Earth. He just wanted a future for his people without the lesser humans getting in his way like they did on Earth. Now he's just some war criminal who was "banished" and was willing to be some guy's puppet. Khan ain't no puppet.
 
I guess after seeing Into Darkness, it just really sunk in that every block-buster type film caters to this knuckle-dragging concept that war and cruelty-without-conscience is entertaining. Is that where we still are in our evolutionary development? Is simple vindictiveness the plateau of our emotional maturity? And will it still be in the 24th century? THAT is depressing.

Right there, you've nailed the reason I no longer go to the movies. It was a slow evolution I think I first noticed during Michael Keaton's Batman, where the Joker was slashing those paintings, and people in the theater were laughing their fool heads off. Villainy somehow became 'funny' somewhere along the line.

The final nail in the cinematic coffin for me was last year. Clearing out my deceased mothers' house I ran across a pistol that once belonged to my sister. having no use or interest in it, I brought it to the police station for disposal. The very next day was the Batman movie shooting. Upon hearing of the brutality in the movie, I couldn't understand the shock at the event. Brutal, soulless mutilation...theater shooting...hmm, sounds like birds of a feather to me. Why the surprise? I realized that day that movies and I had taken separate forks in the road...

Comic books have plowed a similar path during this time. If I had had kids I wouldn't have let them read any of them during the last twenty years or so.

Depressing morbidity has seemingly replaced suspense, nail-biting tension and the inspiring contrast between good and villainy. I have a half joking/half serious theory that the generation who grew up with Garbage Pail Kids are at the root of this phenomenon...:unsure
 
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I know I’ll probably get bashed for this, and I hate to sound like a disgruntled female, but I’m so bloody sick of every movie, TV show and game focusing on war, destruction, vengeance and mayhem. Is that really ALL men think about? Is that really the focal point of all their motivations and dreams?

I guess after seeing Into Darkness, it just really sunk in that every block-buster type film caters to this knuckle-dragging concept that war and cruelty-without-conscience is entertaining.

We must have watched a different movie, because the one I saw was a pretty blatant condemnation of unjust militarization.
You're ascribing a work's ambitions or aims to those depicted as the clear antagonists in the structure of the story. Depiction is not glorification.

And yes, your generalizations are, generally, offensive, but not so much as at the above-mentioned logical fallacy.
 
Like I said earlier, it's not that they used Khan that bothers me, it's that they took Khan at face value and said "done!". Here we have an evil madman hell bent on revenge and will flat out murder people for no real reason. The original Khan had a bit more character than that. He wasn't some soldier who was created to bring peace to a war torn world, he was a product from which scientists hoped to improve the human race. And when they became smart enough, Khan and his followers decided that the world would be better under his rule. He didn't massacre anyone, he didn't wage war against other countries, and in the end, chose to leave Earth rather than stay behind to conquer it.



THAT right there is motivation that stems from his years of ruling on Earth. He just wanted a future for his people without the lesser humans getting in his way like they did on Earth. Now he's just some war criminal who was "banished" and was willing to be some guy's puppet. Khan ain't no puppet.


But original Kahn had the added advantage of having an entire TOS episode dedicated to his backstory, discovery, attempt to take over the Enterprise, and his defeat and exile. And a wife to boot. So when TWOK rolls out, we have readily established motivations and character to build off. This Khan had no opportunity, or if you want to put it on the writers, to create the same level of mythos. So to keep quoting Space Seed as case in points makes no sense as none of that happened in this universe. It's a totally new character.
 
Depressing morbidity has seemingly replaced suspense, nail-biting tension and the inspiring contrast between good and villainy. I have a half joking/half serious theory that the generation who grew up with Garbage Pail Kids are at the root of this phenomenon...:unsure

Interesting. You see, my theory is that an entire generation grew up without Adam West Batman, and skipped right to the "darker" interpretations, and that is the root of the bizarre phenomenon. I truly think the bizarre nihilistic tones of modern cinema are lasting effects of 9-11 on our culture. Sad, in a way, the terrorists won a little bit.

I also think Jason Bourne ruined cinematic action, but that's a different rant.

Oh, and can anyone explain to my what the title of this film has to do with any of it? How did they Trek into darkness? They went to Kronos and then quickly came home.
 
I know I’ll probably get bashed for this, and I hate to sound like a disgruntled female, but I’m so bloody sick of every movie, TV show and game focusing on war, destruction, vengeance and mayhem. Is that really ALL men think about? Is that really the focal point of all their motivations and dreams?

I guess after seeing Into Darkness, it just really sunk in that every block-buster type film caters to this knuckle-dragging concept that war and cruelty-without-conscience is entertaining. Is that where we still are in our evolutionary development? Is simple vindictiveness the plateau of our emotional maturity? And will it still be in the 24th century? THAT is depressing.

I know this isn’t necessarily a gender-based argument, but generally, it is. Men and most of their hobbies still fixate on war and war-like toys. Why isn’t science and higher ideals frothing up as much testosterone?

Regardless, I wanted Trek to rise above that. That was what set it apart from the plethora of artless brutality that permeates most media. I know it is a reflection of our current terrorist fears, but I want a movie (especially a Star Trek movie) to take me to another plane of thought and emotion…not exacerbate the present.

I apologize to all the men who are offended by that, but I’m just generalizing of course.

And, I guess I’m as guilty in some ways because I DID enjoy Into Darkness more than I thought I would. But mostly for the characters who are still intact and shine through whatever lackluster story Abrams can throw together.



Preach it! You are RIGHT! And I'm grateful you spoke up.

I'm a male and love action like most guys but they have turned Star Trek into something I no longer recognize because it's mostly action and fighting, even a beat down.

Starfleet is NOT supposed to be about massive battle space ships named "Vengeance" for crying out loud.
Did they borrow that ship from the Star Wars imperial fleet? LOL

Sure villians and battles get in the way of the greater mission and that creates obstacles to overcome and drama. But that is not he only way to create drama.
Humanity has NOT risen to the next level as Roddenberry envisioned in Abram's Trek-like product and that is a CORE principal of good Trek.

There is no thought provoking think in new ways Sci Fi like GOOD Trek accomplishes.

Roddenberry also hired FEMALE writers too and it payed off! compelling stories and new directions that make people... gasp.... THINK! in new ways.
Good Sci Fi should do that.

Into Darkness was written by three men who are after the Transformers movie going demographic.


Yes the Klingons were Russians and the Romulans the Chinese on TOS.. so yes they did map the Cold War onto TOS a bit.
But again, the battles were far more intellectual then actual blowing the crap out of each other and beat downs.

I think even of Kirk and the Gorn, what a great ending! Kirk stops the violence, he defys the aliens to kill, who then tell us we have.... hope of becoming something greater... in a few thousand years.

I won't see this movie because I have read several detailed story accounts and it was worse then the first film.
Just yet another remapping of current war on terror concerns onto a remake of Wrath of Khan onto a reimagined TOS Trek and clumsily done at that lifting complete lines from another film. That is not compelling.
We don't need more of it. Hell original Khan and Kirk had battles of the wits most of all.

We need positive visions like good Trek delivers, thoughtful stories, sure lock phasers on target and blast bad guys now and then but give me compelling content and challenge me to think if I so choose. You can do both.
 
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But it is mentioned by Kirk in the movie that Khan and his followers wanted to destroy anyone not as perfect as they were and that was not the case with the original Khan. His motivations and character should have remained the same as they were in Space Seed. I guess Nero changed Khan as well, amazing I know but it seems the changes to the time line are now going backwards.
 
I walked out of the theater and said to my friend "remember when Star Trek used to be about ideas?"

It was a solid action flick, but who was it written for? The fans? Then why crap all over them by rehashing WOK and UC? New audience members? Without a pre-existing affection for the characters, there's nothing much to this movie. The sole pleasure is the "ah-ha" moments where we recognize something we love. And they were way overdone. I rolled my eyes when Kirk went into the radiation and almost laughed at "Khan!"

On DS9 when Bashir is revealed to be enhanced, it raised all kinds of social and ethical issues. In this movie when we meet Khan, he's basically a guy who kicks really hard. There are no ideas explored here. It's pedestrian.

I'm gonna go watch TOS and wash the taste of this mediocre shoot em up out of my mind.
 
So i got to see it on Friday. Stunning and brilliantly amazing movie. It was totally worth the long wait and I was very impressed. I loved the score, the visual effects, and the plot. However, I had a few problems. The plot was too predictable for me at some points, especially how they saved Kirk. When he went into the radiation chamber, I know it was going the TWOK route. Comberbatch did a great job of playing Khan because he played him as a bad guys with a sad back story and he pulled that off. The film had a lot of action, which was good, but at some parts, it was too much and it was hard to watch because it was all so fast. I did like the plot twits, but I think they put too many in. Overall it was a great movie with a few problems, but Abrams did a wonderful job with it.
 
People do realize the movie is called Star Trek Into Darkness?

Then why are you so confused this wasn't about peace and progress?

It's about a society that wants to build itself on ideals but instead finds itself slipping into war, destruction and darkness.

It's right there in the title!
 
We just got home. I officially fear for the future of the Star Wars franchise in the hands of Abrams.

Also: The moral of the story, kids, is actions have no consequences! SWEET! :sick

Roddenberry is spinning in his grave like a top.

Damn. I have little interest in seeing this in theaters. Once I realized it was Khan in the second trailer and the people involved still kept lying saying it wasn't Khan. I just knew things were going to be bad. You don't remake one of the best movies ever and the best Star Trek movie. It's just something you don't do. And the first reboot wasn't that good anyway. I'll still go into it with an open mind when it's released on cable. But from the few unbiased reviews I read online. This movie seems to be really bad. I hope I don't feel the need to write another forum paper on this subject like I did with Tron Legacy about why TRON is the far better, original movie.

I still can't believe a guy who openly says that he didn't like Star Trek gets to direct it. And now gets to direct Star Wars. People are already backing Abrams like his Star Wars will be the best. I'm very wary as I've only seen a few good action sequences from him in movies. Never a complete good movie.
 
So to keep quoting Space Seed as case in points makes no sense as none of that happened in this universe. It's a totally new character.

Unfortunate how a film like STID is being praised for the portrayal of it's characters yet we're quick to dismiss what made the original characters they're based on special to begin with. The reason I keep bringing up the original Khan is because what made him unique is completely absent in this film. It doesn't want to portray Khan as a dangerous but sympathetic character who could be reasoned with. It treats him as a two dimensional bad guy who is evil at heart and just wants to kill people. And as for that "It's a totally new character" argument? No. The writers wrote that stupid Spock Prime scene to emphasize the fact that this Khan is the same Khan from the original. If he was a brand new character, why bring in someone who knows nothing about him?
 
I really did enjoy the movie it was really cool the way they redid the storylines the submarine thing was a little far-fetched though
 
Great Trek popcorn movie flick. Did they nail everything? No... but, this Trek for the masses.

Are you going to nitpick it to death and not appreciate it for what it is? Yes. Doesn't make it any less of a great, fun film... something that quite of the "old" Trek films missed out on.
 
...It was a bit distracting when Kirk describes Spock as "throwing him under the bus." I doubt that metaphor is going to last 200+ years. And McCoy made a similar comment that seemed out of place, but I don't remember it at the moment...
McCoy's comment, in relation to the Enterprise's warp drive being sabotaged, was something to the effect of, "You don't rob a bank when your getaway car has a flat tire." Apparently, even 250 years from now we still won't have flying cars. :lol
 
Correcting the movie's many flaws (both this one and the 2009 film) would be fairly simple, not sacrifice any of the "fun" factor, and still appeal to the masses. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

Why did Mickey, - err, the sick girl's dad - blew himself and his facility up after she was cured?

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McCoy's comment, in relation to the Enterprise's warp drive being sabotaged, was something to the effect of, "You don't rob a bank when your getaway car has a flat tire." Apparently, even 250 years from now we still won't have flying cars. :lol

That was it. Though, admittedly, they still have wheeled vehicles as of Nemesis...:sick
 
McCoy's comment, in relation to the Enterprise's warp drive being sabotaged, was something to the effect of, "You don't rob a bank when your getaway car has a flat tire." Apparently, even 250 years from now we still won't have flying cars. :lol

Well we do know that the police will at least have flying motorcycles
 
...Why did Mickey, - err, the sick girl's dad - blew himself and his facility up after she was cured?
First, the entire time he was on screen all I could think was, "Hey, it's Mickey!" :lol Since I've only seen him in Doctor Who, it took me out of the movie a bit.

Second, because that was the deal he made with Harrison, i.e., I'll save your daughter if you blow up the facility (which was actually a secret Federation facility).
 
I already know the answer, and this is me really just being nit-picky with the "rules" of the Trek universe - but can we talk about transporters for a second? We had that TNG episode where Picard had heart surgery, and in this Pike gets shot, Kirk gets radiated, yadda yadda - but with transporters existing in this universe, why would you ever need to do surgery at all? Why couldn't the transporter just reassemble your molecules from pattern buffer memory/the last time it assembled you? I'm sure there are "rules" to it somewhere, it just seems like transporters would revolutionize medicine - especially from things like a "gunshot" wound...
 
Damn. I have little interest in seeing this in theaters. Once I realized it was Khan in the second trailer and the people involved still kept lying saying it wasn't Khan. I just knew things were going to be bad. You don't remake one of the best movies ever and the best Star Trek movie. It's just something you don't do. And the first reboot wasn't that good anyway. I'll still go into it with an open mind when it's released on cable. But from the few unbiased reviews I read online. This movie seems to be really bad. I hope I don't feel the need to write another forum paper on this subject like I did with Tron Legacy about why TRON is the far better, original movie.

I still can't believe a guy who openly says that he didn't like Star Trek gets to direct it. And now gets to direct Star Wars. People are already backing Abrams like his Star Wars will be the best. I'm very wary as I've only seen a few good action sequences from him in movies. Never a complete good movie.

Same reason Michael bay is killing the Transformers franchise and he isn't a fan. His name is hip with teenagers and that's who they care about making movies for so you get stuff blowing up and half naked girls. What bothers me is how can this just be an alternate timeline when this Khan looks absolutely nothing like the original khan? They've gone from alternate timeline to alternate dimension with that.
 
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