Star Trek 4

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by alienscollection.com, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. alienscollection.com

    alienscollection.com Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    4,275
  2. Goonie

    Goonie Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,505
    But will the 4th have nuclear wessels?
     
    Wes R and Riceball like this.
  3. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    4,470
    Let's wait and see how the 3rd one does. Although, I suppose, Paramount wants to keep its franchises going to compete with the likes of Disney.
     
  4. SciFiMuseum

    SciFiMuseum Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    915
    Well that is good news as far as a fourth film but they haven't filmed the third one yet so as Solo said above, we will see...unlike a lot of fans apparently I like the films as I am a Kirk and Spock man myself, I grew up before the Next Generation existed so TOS is still my favorite and I liked the new crew.
     
  5. tgreco

    tgreco Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,535
    Sorry... but I want the JJ verse to die, and Trek to return to TV, as it should be.
     
  6. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    Good news in a way, with those pay outs to Pine and Quintero, in a perfect world the next film will tank as well as the fourth, this current blasphemy will end and we can move on to what Trek is really about! :lol
     
    robn1 likes this.
  7. bwayne64

    bwayne64 Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    815
    Amen to that ! And maybe get an Enterprise that doesn't look like plucked poultry, :)
     
    Apollo likes this.
  8. Mola Rob

    Mola Rob Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,685
    I miss the days when I looked forward to new Star Trek. Now I just don't care.
     
    tgreco, Angelus Lupus and Apollo like this.
  9. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    4,470
    You wrote what the groan that just escaped me meant. :lol
     
  10. MooCriket

    MooCriket Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,366
    The most important question I need to know the answer to: Is Gracie pregnant?
     
    brandomack likes this.
  11. Angelus Lupus

    Angelus Lupus Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,730
    I wish I didn't feel this way too.
     
  12. brandomack

    brandomack Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    The hell she is.
     
  13. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,375
    Agreed.
    Hope the third bombs horribly.
    This will never be a form of Star Trek to me.
    Everyone can go watch JJ Wars, that is what they wanted anyways.
     
  14. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    Are you sure now is the time for a colorful metaphor? ;)


     
    The Terminator likes this.
  15. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    Wow. A lot of hate here.

    Sent from my SM-N915W8 using Tapatalk
     
  16. brandomack

    brandomack Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Dude...we're QUOTING Voyage Home...
     
  17. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    No ..... Really. ...dude? I'm talking about the jj trek hate. Lighten up.

    Sent from my SM-N915W8 using Tapatalk
     
  18. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,375
    "From hell's heart I stab at thee....."

    Abrams is pretty low in my universe. Not like Hitler low, but you know, low.
    My TOS was effectively raped to cheering crowds so that's not easily forgotten.
     
    tgreco likes this.
  19. MooCriket

    MooCriket Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,366
    Hahahaha! Well done, Good Sir!
     
    brandomack likes this.
  20. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
     
  21. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,375
    [video]https://youtu.be/GTil0-smOJQ?t=50[/video]
     
  22. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    :lol ....and that's your problem right there! :lol


     
  23. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    Oh. Okay. I have the problem You just keep dreaming your ST fantasy movie. I'll just move along.


    Cheers

    Sent from my SM-N915W8 using Tapatalk
     
  24. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    This is'nt reality, this is fantasy, now get back into the closet! :lol

     
    brandomack likes this.
  25. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    That's a great point. Perhaps you should follow it.

    Sent from my SM-N915W8 using Tapatalk
     
  26. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    Trust me Mr. adventure you are out of your depth here! :lol


     
    brandomack likes this.
  27. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    Is that because of your post count?
     
  28. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    Not at all, You just don't get it! :facepalm


     
  29. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    Enlighten me . What am not getting?
     
  30. brandomack

    brandomack Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    image.jpg
     
  31. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
    That sure persuaded me .:thumbsup
     
  32. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    The old star trek films were dying, the tv shows were dying, JJ breathed new life into the franchise, if its not your trek, good, your trek is what killed trek.
     
    seelsa73 and clancampbell like this.
  33. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    No , bad decisions, mainly, bad scripts opened up the current mess.


     
    tgreco likes this.
  34. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    brandomack likes this.
  35. Mola Rob

    Mola Rob Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,685
    That and the fact that Paramount wanted a blockbuster franchise with movies that make far more than any Trek movie ever made in the past. All they had to do to achieve that was change everything that made Trek what it was and turn it into a generic special effects driven summer franchise with stories that are utterly forgetable.
     
    Apollo likes this.
  36. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,670
    And you know... the producers, writers and actors telling the fans to fu** off and that THEY'RE the ones who make movies.
     
    Apollo likes this.
  37. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    So Insurrection and Nemesis were great movies then?
     
  38. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,670
    [​IMG]

    Star Trek is my favorite franchise of all time, but I'm not so devoted to it that I won't acknowledge that a lot of stuff it's put out there is straight up bad. Insurrection followed up on what was a very promising start at a full TNG focused movie and squandered it into a below average mediocrity that has since drowned in irrelevancy. Nemesis was so horribly mishandled that nobody knew how to properly handle the characters. You want to emphasize how different Picard and Shinzon are? The movie could have been saved if you had only worked Picard's artificial heart into the story since that was such a crucial character developing moment for him in the series and it would have given Picard something TANGIBLE to show Shinzon that the events in one's life do have a lasting impact on who you are! GOD DANGIT! How could they have missed that opportunity?

    And a lot of the problems I see in Nemesis I still see in these new movies. We have a need for a film to appeal to a greater audience, we have writers who really don't understand the characters, we have scenes written for pure self-indulgence and an almost complete lack of respect for the source material. I fear if I list how they mishandled Khan I'd be reported for spamming so I'll just leave it there.

    Whatever good faith Trek09 brought to the entertainment industry, it did not carry over with Into Darkness. It was more of the same and didn't promise us anything new. If the next film doesn't have Carol Marcus or follow up on the whole Klingon schtick that was beaten into our heads, the film is completely skippable. Trek09 ends with their five year long mission and there was no 'Khan' incident. I mean, Kirk's death and resurrection was handled with all the grace of an episodic reset button rather than a moment that stuck with the characters long past the film.
     
    tgreco and MooCriket like this.
  39. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,266
  40. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    I am not going to say Darkness was as good as 09, although it did have some great visuals.

    However none permanent deaths have been the staple of the original series.

    Kirk's death in Amok Time, Scotty killed by Apollo and Nomad, most of the crew being turned into tetrahedrons, McCoy's fatal illness, suddenly cured by the end of the episode, Uhura's complete brain wipe, everything back to normal the next week.

    And that is just TOS, you want to talk about reducing dramatic impact. Remember how terrible it was seeing the enterprise burn in star trek 3? And how it just wasn't the same in Generations?

    That is because by the time generations came along we had already seen the enterprise D blow up seven times.

    The sins of the JJ films are there, but to say they aren't true to the series that came before utilises a very selective memory.
     
  41. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,375
  42. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    Who?

    His opinion makes a lot of assumptions about the enterprises importance that bear no relevance to the alternative timeline.

    In TOS the enterprise was not the flagship, it was one of 12 identical ships, important to the federation, but not irreplaceable.

    The ship became legendary because of the actions of Kirk and his crew on that five year mission, and the missions that followed, enough to make sure the name carried on in other ships, although either they took care of the B for a very long time, or there was a significant gap between B and C, there definitely was between C and D.

    In 2009 there was no mention of the enterprise being the flagship then either, and it didn't have any history because it had only just been launched.

    There were cadets on board because the ship was not expected to be taken into battle, much like the similar situation in star trek II.

    At the end of the film Kirk was willing to spare the life of the man who killed his own father in the name of peace and the greater good, to suggest that this is the same cocky Kirk from the start of the film seems to be the mark of a person not really paying attention to the film.

    And if Kirk is not acting like the Kirk we know, maybe because the Kirk we know had a living caring father, not some abusive step father banging his mother to get closer to his dads collection of antiques.
     
  43. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    5,035
    :lol He was a member here way before your time :lol



     
    Contec likes this.
  44. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,670
    I'm going to stop you right there. The reason why the destruction of the Enterprise D wasn't as dramatic as the original Enterprise being destroyed was NOT because we've seen it blow up seven times before. It was because the circumstances behind it's real genuine destruction didn't have any drama to begin with.

    Star Trek 3 built the Enterprise up as a ship past her time. The original ship that has been a part of the show since it's very beginning was going to be decommissioned and scrapped. When Kirk and crew steal the Enterprise, they know that this will probably be their last journey not only on the Enterprise, but as Starfleet officers. But when they get to Genesis, their hopes are almost shattered when a surprise attack by the Klingons leaves the Enterprise disabled and helpless. Kirk's attempt to intimidate the Klingon Commander Kruge fails which winds up costing the life of his son. When it comes to surrendering the Enterprise, there's only one thing left to do. Destroy the Enterprise. The moments that begin with the self-destruct sequence all the way to seeing it's remainds entering Genesis' atmosphere are some of the most dramatic and intense work ever seen in a Star Trek film Thanks in no small part to James Horner's incredible score (RIP!). And this was done all in the confines of one film.

    The Enterprise D in Generations?
    • We see the crew * around on a holographic boat while making fun of Worf.
    • The Enterprise arrives too late to stop the Romulans from killing the stations 18 compliments but they do save the villain.
    • The crew allow the villain to go back onto the station where he takes their chief engineer hostage and blows up the whole solar system.
    • No one thinks about checking Geordi's visor to see if it was tampered with.
    • Remember what Picard says here. "Maybe they're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon Bird-of-Prey can be a match for the Federation flagship."
    • Picard allows himself to be the Klingons' hostage in order for him to have a chance to stop Soran. Results? Picard inconveniences Soran from crossing a bridge.
    • The Enterprise D, armed to the freaking teeth with enough weapons that would make the Borg pause, fires only one single phaser blast at the Bird of Prey, turns around and flees. Worse, the only way the crew think they can defeat the Klingons is with *rolls dice* Technobabble! Yes, the Enterprise defeat the Klingons because of nonsense.
    • Geordi's engineering springs a leaks and he gives up instantly saying 'there's nothing I can do'.
    • When all is said and done, Picard feels very, VERY passive about the destruction of the Enterprise (Our casualties were light) and even leaves many of his priceless invaluable artifacts for a gawddang family album that was only introduced in this movie and was never seen again.
    Conclusion... The original Enterprise's destruction had drama and a lasting impact. The destruction of the Enterprise D was contrived and nobody seemed to care. When the newly resurrected Spock started to remember Kirk by calling him Jim, Kirk finally felt vindicated. After all that Picard had went through, it took the sight of his family album to make him happy again. So, no. It wasn't the TNG series that diminished the destruction of the Enterprise D.
     
  45. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    I think both reasons are valid.
     
  46. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,670
    Not when you talk about the film within the confines of itself. And Star Trek Generations on it's own just happens to be a unorganized mess that originated from a studio mandated check list than an actual draft of a story. The destruction of the Enterprise D could have been one of the most impactful things to ever happen to the TNG crew even with the entire series behind it. Saying that episodes like "Cause and Effect" diminish the destruction of the Enterprise is an unfair point because Cause and Effect was a FREAKING AWESOME EPISODE! The Enterprise being destroyed wasn't even the main problem because it was never permanently destroyed to begin with. The loop was the problem.
     
  47. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    And if had just been that one episode you would have a point, but it blew up in time squared, cause and effect, Yesterdays enterprise, Timescape, and the very last episode before Generations itself, all good things, where you get three different enterprises blowing up.

    Kirks enterprise was a big deal when it blew up because until then it had never blown up, Picards enterprise blew up an average of once a season.

    Throw in the fact that every time we ever see a galaxy class that isnt the enterprise that blows up too, its no wonder people had galaxy class explosion fatigue by the time it finally bit the dust for real.

    You also didn't take star trek 3 in terms of only itself, you yourself mentioned the history of the ship throughout the series, and other films.

    You seem to want to have your cake and eat it. Noone is arguing with you that generations is a mess, least of all me, but you are trying to invalidate my theory by ignoring the same thing in yours.
     
  48. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,670
    I believe Star Trek 3 literally used clips both narratively and in-context with the film to tell it's story. The blue-tinted recap of Spock's death, funeral and final resting place to the the security footage from engineering. All from the previous film. So bringing up the previous movie is still within the boundaries of the movie itself. And don't forget that the self-destruct sequence code from the original series episode Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is used digit by digit. Even on it's own, Star Trek 3 still acknowledges the details that I brought up. It's a far more practical explanation than using deleted scenes to explain why a character did nothing for 25 years.
     
  49. tgreco

    tgreco Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,535
    The biggest problem with Into Darkness... was simply it couldn't stand on its own. Even being so pathetic as to have to contact Spock Prime to fill them in on who Khan was. It was an incoherent mess, and I hated everything about it, from the first teaser sequence.

    That being said, why would I go see ST3? I didn't bother seeing Revenge of the Sith.
     
  50. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,375

    Enterprise doesn't have to be THE ship in the fictional verse, there are others. It is however THE ship for the TOS message as we view the show. It is THE ship to us the viewer. And why she is out there is important.
    Not the least of which is what was very clearly spelled out in legendary Shatner fashion.....



    And Abrams never understood that. He never liked Star Trek.
    As Spock explained about V'ger not understanding emotions... it had no meaning to him.

    JJ Trek fails to connect with many of us and this is one of the reasons why.
    Your calling it Star Trek, you having characters that are TOS based, but beyond that?
    Does that not mean great expectations of handling the material?
    There is no there there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018

Share This Page