SSgt Burton
Sr Member
Seriously?
Man I can't believe it! I finally come around to accepting Pine as Kirk et al, and none of them are going to be in the next one!? No Karl Urban?
That blows.
Mind you I won't miss Saldana.
Kevin
Star Trek 2009... I gave it another chance
- Thread starter SSgt Burton
- Start date
Seriously?
Man I can't believe it! I finally come around to accepting Pine as Kirk et al, and none of them are going to be in the next one!? No Karl Urban?
That blows.
Mind you I won't miss Saldana.
Kevin
Qrest Fourstar
Sr Member
My 2 cents..
I liked the film as a whole, just thought Nero's ship was poorly designed. a Scary looking mining ship? I just hated the design. And in 25 years he just didnt deal with his anger in all that time and realize: "Hey, I can change time so it doesnt happen"? and NONe of the crew thought: "hey, the captain screwed us over because he's upset. I just came on board to drill holes not destroy and entire planet of people." And they remained loyal? Sorry. needed more.
I liked the film as a whole, just thought Nero's ship was poorly designed. a Scary looking mining ship? I just hated the design. And in 25 years he just didnt deal with his anger in all that time and realize: "Hey, I can change time so it doesnt happen"? and NONe of the crew thought: "hey, the captain screwed us over because he's upset. I just came on board to drill holes not destroy and entire planet of people." And they remained loyal? Sorry. needed more.
SmilingOtter
Master Member
I thought the casting was just about perfect. (I had serious problems with Nero - especially the "Hi, Christopher..." line - but Bana could only work with what he was given.)
My biggest problem with the production was how little thought was put into the details: the ship designs/scales. The logistical hoops of getting Spock Prime, Kirk, and Scotty together. The simple mining vessel that can destroy multiple fleets of warships. The need to have the black hole form at the center of a planet rather than, say, ANYWHERE NEAR IT. The fact that apparently any ship can, with no preparation, hop down a black hole, survive, and show up somewhen else.
And the icing on the cake is Spock Prime's (and Starfleet's in general) unwillingness to take a trip back in time to fix things, whether by saving Vulcan from Nero, or Romulus from the galaxy eating supernova. (Which is another problem entirely.)
My biggest problem with the production was how little thought was put into the details: the ship designs/scales. The logistical hoops of getting Spock Prime, Kirk, and Scotty together. The simple mining vessel that can destroy multiple fleets of warships. The need to have the black hole form at the center of a planet rather than, say, ANYWHERE NEAR IT. The fact that apparently any ship can, with no preparation, hop down a black hole, survive, and show up somewhen else.
And the icing on the cake is Spock Prime's (and Starfleet's in general) unwillingness to take a trip back in time to fix things, whether by saving Vulcan from Nero, or Romulus from the galaxy eating supernova. (Which is another problem entirely.)
SmilingOtter
Master Member
Seriously?
Man I can't believe it! I finally come around to accepting Pine as Kirk et al, and none of them are going to be in the next one!? No Karl Urban?
That blows.
Mind you I won't miss Saldana.
None of the ORIGINAL cast members.
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
SmilingOtter
Master Member
'Sokay. We've all been there. At least I know I have.
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
While I would have agreed in a heartbeat that I desperately wanted to see a "reset" of events at the end of this film (every Trek story in which a timeline gets screwed up, has that big reset at the end)...
I don't know what to think now. Time travel has been so overdone in Trek lore.
I don't get how flying into a black hole sends you back in time (I thought it turns everything into an infinitely long string of spaghetti)---
But I also don't get how flying one way around the Sun gets you back to 1986, and flying the other way sends you forward to 2286 either. :unsure
(I can't believe I'm actually defending this film given how much I loathed it previously)- but at least the time travel was unintentional this time around.
Normally the time travel is deliberately controlled, which usually brings a whole new set of questions. Take "Generations" for instance- Picard chooses to go back in time to a few minutes before Soran's missile is launched.
Why go back a few minutes? Why not go back to when Soran was aboard the Enterprise and arrest him? Why not go back a week and prevent his Brother and Nephew from burning to death?
(Just being rhetorical here)
Kevin
AGxM
Well-Known Member
Tmelines, plot gaps and Trek history aside, I just think it's a bad film personally, and Pine as Kirk is dreadful.
I sort of excuse the earlier films for their badness as I could still identify with the characters, and to some extent 'bad' is was Trek was all about (wobbly sets, polystyrene rocks etc) but I could not get on at all with the character of Kirk and Scotty and Uhuru were also questionable.
I am not against a 'reboot' of Star Trek by any means as I would love to see Star Trek go on, although Enterprise did nothing for me, but I do need some connection to the actors and the characters they portray.
I own the film, but that is through love of the franchise, and I doubt whether I will bother with too many replays.
I sort of excuse the earlier films for their badness as I could still identify with the characters, and to some extent 'bad' is was Trek was all about (wobbly sets, polystyrene rocks etc) but I could not get on at all with the character of Kirk and Scotty and Uhuru were also questionable.
I am not against a 'reboot' of Star Trek by any means as I would love to see Star Trek go on, although Enterprise did nothing for me, but I do need some connection to the actors and the characters they portray.
I own the film, but that is through love of the franchise, and I doubt whether I will bother with too many replays.
oujala
Well-Known Member
I just happened to be watching all of the extras on my bluray when I came across this thread.
I love the movie. They nailed everything as far as I'm concerned. When you get into things like all of the coincidences, I think that's all explained away by a universe that wants to be in it's simplest state. Remember that this is not a timeline that existed before the black hole deal that brought the Romulans and Spock into it.
The universe is just trying to correct itself as much as it can to align with what should be.
My take on it, anyway...
Back to the extras!
I love the movie. They nailed everything as far as I'm concerned. When you get into things like all of the coincidences, I think that's all explained away by a universe that wants to be in it's simplest state. Remember that this is not a timeline that existed before the black hole deal that brought the Romulans and Spock into it.
The universe is just trying to correct itself as much as it can to align with what should be.
My take on it, anyway...
Back to the extras!
I think the best scene from this movie was never filmed.
i read a leaked script or something somewhere that would have involved having William Shatner involved.
and it was a hologram message from Kirk to Spock.... a happy birthday message.
But it would have been included where old spock meets young spock and he talks about the friendship that will define the both of you...
i thought it would have been nice to have shatner in that one little part...... i mean no more hokey than having nemoy...
i read a leaked script or something somewhere that would have involved having William Shatner involved.
and it was a hologram message from Kirk to Spock.... a happy birthday message.
But it would have been included where old spock meets young spock and he talks about the friendship that will define the both of you...
i thought it would have been nice to have shatner in that one little part...... i mean no more hokey than having nemoy...
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
I listened to the entire bluray commentary with Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman etc. There were times I was grinding my teeth as to just how arrogant they sounded.
However one thing they did touch on (actually more like hinted at as they never truly did discuss it), is that the sequence of Kirk being shot onto the planet and through a series of circumstances ends up with Spock, boils down to "fate."
In other words Kirk and Old Spock were destined to meet each other.
That's pretty much an area I'm not comfortable with. I'll leave it at that.
Kevin
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My only real complaint with this movie is the villian and his ship.
I always scratch my head as to why these villian ships have to be SO big and ugly and overdesigned - to the point where you can't really get a clear idea of what it looks like.
You don't need a big ungly overdesigned ship to say "this is the badguy" - take a look at Kahn's use of the Reliant.
Also, Nero was thinly drawn. The biggest example of this is that the audience has to be TOLD why he is bad. He goes into a monologue with Pike why he is so angry.
The audience never gets a chance to EARN the emotional right to hate this guy, because little time was taken to develop this character.
Sure, we see him do a bunch of bad things like kill a few people, but his character is really not developed in any way that has us loving to hate him.
I always scratch my head as to why these villian ships have to be SO big and ugly and overdesigned - to the point where you can't really get a clear idea of what it looks like.
You don't need a big ungly overdesigned ship to say "this is the badguy" - take a look at Kahn's use of the Reliant.
Also, Nero was thinly drawn. The biggest example of this is that the audience has to be TOLD why he is bad. He goes into a monologue with Pike why he is so angry.
The audience never gets a chance to EARN the emotional right to hate this guy, because little time was taken to develop this character.
Sure, we see him do a bunch of bad things like kill a few people, but his character is really not developed in any way that has us loving to hate him.
While I LOVED the design of the Narada, I absolutely LOATHED how it was depicted as a Romulan ship, and classified as "simple". I know we didn't see any Romulan mining ships in Star Trek before, but even with that their ship designs for other classes (Scout ships, shuttles) didn't strain too far form looking like a starship we'd come to expect. It'd be like if the Doomsday Machine said it was actually a "simple" cargo ship.
Now that I mention it, wouldn't the design of the Narada have been a pretty cool redesign of the Doomsday Machine? Few minor tweaks like a glowing center, it would have been pretty awesome. Heck, when the Narada is first seen coming out of the .... black hole .... the music, with the trumpets blazing reminded me very much of the Doomsday Machine score.
Goodwolf
Sr Member
To a lot of Americans, yeah it would be.
We like our villains straight up eveel. Preferably with a top hat and black, bushy mustache for the traditionalists.
Right... I'm off to weep for the future of my country now.
JD
Master Member
Good to see someone checking out something and giving it a second chance. Yeah, reboots/reimaginings/retoolings like this are sometimes very hard to swallow and a usually a tough sell to those that grew up as die hard's of the original.
I'm a Trek fan - in so much that I've seen all the films (much more a fan of the early films - I remember coming home from the theater in 1982 mumbling 'why'd Spock have to die'), enough of TOS to have a clear grasp of it all, watched TNG fairly religously every Sunday at noon during it's first run. TNG just doesn't hold up that well for me. I gave DS9 and Voyager a chance, but it never really stuck... may've watched one episode of Enterprise.
I both love and hate this movie. I guess a lot of people might be like that.
I don't care for Chris Pine and his portrayal of Kirk. But, in all honesty... the 'new' Kirk was a pompous, arrogant, ******* - probably a lot like the TOS Kirk would've been. Well, that and his hair... damn, his hair sucked. Chris Helmsworth may've made a better Kirk - if they could've taken 30 lbs off him (but, he became an amazing Thor).
The new Enterprise - at first look, I loved it. But, after living with it for a while I'm still not sure what they were thinking when they designed the bit where the nacelle struts meet the body. ..and yeah, it was a little to chic - the Enterprise from the first few films was perfect.
The story - Nero and the Romulans - was all just throwaway bits to get us to the characters and get them all on board. Yeah, like lots of movies there's the bits that scratch our heads and write off as fate (Kirk meeting old Spock)... but, jettisoning Kirk off the Enterprise is just a stupid, stupid plot device and as unlikely as it would be for him to stumble on to old Spock, shooting him off onto Hoth is just ridiculous... I can accept conincidence/fate - but, that was just stupid.
Karl Urban was perfect. Quinto was decent enough. Pegg wasn't quite the Scotty I knew, but I'll take this new Scotty. Yelchin and Cho worked well enough (loved Yeltsin's accent). Uhura wasn't all that for me...
But, overall - the big picture worked for me. We got to see the beginnings of the chemistry that made Star Trek work. Bones' banter, Spock's logic, Scotty giving her all she's got and Jim Kirk defying the odds.
Hopefully the next movie will give us all that with a better overall story.
I'm a Trek fan - in so much that I've seen all the films (much more a fan of the early films - I remember coming home from the theater in 1982 mumbling 'why'd Spock have to die'), enough of TOS to have a clear grasp of it all, watched TNG fairly religously every Sunday at noon during it's first run. TNG just doesn't hold up that well for me. I gave DS9 and Voyager a chance, but it never really stuck... may've watched one episode of Enterprise.
I both love and hate this movie. I guess a lot of people might be like that.
I don't care for Chris Pine and his portrayal of Kirk. But, in all honesty... the 'new' Kirk was a pompous, arrogant, ******* - probably a lot like the TOS Kirk would've been. Well, that and his hair... damn, his hair sucked. Chris Helmsworth may've made a better Kirk - if they could've taken 30 lbs off him (but, he became an amazing Thor).
The new Enterprise - at first look, I loved it. But, after living with it for a while I'm still not sure what they were thinking when they designed the bit where the nacelle struts meet the body. ..and yeah, it was a little to chic - the Enterprise from the first few films was perfect.
The story - Nero and the Romulans - was all just throwaway bits to get us to the characters and get them all on board. Yeah, like lots of movies there's the bits that scratch our heads and write off as fate (Kirk meeting old Spock)... but, jettisoning Kirk off the Enterprise is just a stupid, stupid plot device and as unlikely as it would be for him to stumble on to old Spock, shooting him off onto Hoth is just ridiculous... I can accept conincidence/fate - but, that was just stupid.
Karl Urban was perfect. Quinto was decent enough. Pegg wasn't quite the Scotty I knew, but I'll take this new Scotty. Yelchin and Cho worked well enough (loved Yeltsin's accent). Uhura wasn't all that for me...
But, overall - the big picture worked for me. We got to see the beginnings of the chemistry that made Star Trek work. Bones' banter, Spock's logic, Scotty giving her all she's got and Jim Kirk defying the odds.
Hopefully the next movie will give us all that with a better overall story.
Wakeem
Sr Member
I watched it once. I thought it looked pretty cool but was missing much of what made Star Trek smart. I tried to watch it again and only made it halfway though. I'll try again one of these days. My biggest problem is the whole new timeline. We have the original Mr. Spock and this time ship loaded with the special energy (I hated the Alias reference by the way and all the other Abrams Easter eggs, they should not be in Star Trek). Spock sees the destruction of his planet, finds out about the different timeline, his Mother's death, and a bunch of other stuff. Spock has gone back in time to fix stuff like this many times but in this movie for the sake of the new timeline, so they can make new Star Trek movies without retreading on the old stuff. Spock essentially gives up. I don't understand how a Star Trek fan can be ok with that. It is for the most part on the level with making Mr. Phelps a traitor in the Mission: Impossible movie.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
It is quite a task to reboot a franchise like Star Trek. That is a lot to accomplish in a few hours. Try to forgive the flaws and think of it as just a long PROLOGUE.
Now all that is out of the way and the door is wide open for a full on REAL Star Trek movie with a great young cast.
Now all that is out of the way and the door is wide open for a full on REAL Star Trek movie with a great young cast.
Goodwolf
Sr Member
Or simply as exposition. We, the viewers have to have this old/new world explained to us so we have a grasp on the broad strokes and changes and that can take some time, which is time that could have been devoted to other stuff.
Later movies won't need it. As much as I loved the LoTR films, the first one is by far the most boring because it's essentially a big piece of exposition, setting up the story to follow and establishing characters.
SmilingOtter
Master Member
I almost walked out of the theater at that reveal.
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