SSgt Burton
Sr Member
So for Christmas I ended up getting ST ‘09 on bluray as a gift from my family (I like Star Trek after all). Rather than being disgruntled, I accepted it graciously.
Part of me wanted to watch this film just to be reminded of why a hated it so vehemently, however some points that Larry and Darth Saber made in a recent Trek thread peaked my interest to be a little more open minded about the film.
Let’s just say I hated it a lot less on my repeat viewing.
So the opening sequence was great the first time around, no complaints here.
Young Kirk as the delinquent: Okay I get this all goes back the “alternate timeline” explanation. It still rubs me the wrong way. The whole sequence of Kirk stealing his stepfather’s car is odd. I still consider it pandering in that they had to give the character angst.
However to throw some random thoughts out there-
Kirk’s stepfather collects antiques. The ‘66 Vette would be one, and the Nokia phone would be one too... perhaps the 250+ year old playlist is part of the collection as well? Could this also tie into the original timeline in which Kirk collects antiques?
The boy on the road Kirk zips by, “George”- It isn’t stated outright, but it can be easily assumed that this is Kirk’s brother. He appears to be running away from home as well, which would tie in with Kirk’s stepfather being an ass.
I was originally very opposed to my all time hero being depicted as a budding criminal, however given the accelerated plot, I guess it was necessary. So after the barfight, Kirk is encouraged to enter Starfleet by Pike, who sees his potential, rather than just another hick who dismisses all authority.
A little different than Kirk entering Starfleet on his own accord (which in this very film old Spock tells him it was Kirk’s real Father who inspired Kirk to enlist). However Kirk’s comment about graduating the Academy in three years instead of four is very much in line with the character.
The Kobayashi Maru test: Again I hated Kirk’s cockiness during this sequence the first time around... However “I” totally missed the point. Kirk was brash and cocky in his youth. THAT was one of the points of Star Trek II. As much as I may have disliked the depiction of Kirk beating the test the first time I saw it, I now think they got it bang on right.
Cadet Kirk on trial: This is really funny- The first time I saw this sequence I basically was on Starfleet and Spock’s side that Kirk needed to be disciplined for his actions... and was thinking WTF when they basically award him at the end of the film.
So now I’ve done a complete 180: I don’t like the sequence because of the fact they are disciplining him to begin with. Kirk had already taken the test... twice! Wouldn’t his first attempt be his final grade? The test has no typical pass/fail like a math test- it is a test of character. Although not shown, I’m sure Kirk didn’t breakdown or give up on his first attempt given his willingness to try again two more times.
Who cares if he rigged the test the “third” time. Shouldn’t his instructors be laughing at Kirk’s ingenuity rather than being pissed? The hearing now makes no sense to me. Besides Kirk was given a commendation for original thinking, not disciplined for his actions (yeah yeah, in the “original” timeline).
Anyway the exchange between Kirk and Spock at his hearing was fun to watch, and I was actually disappointed that Kirk never got the chance at a rebuttal to Spock’s last statement before everyone has to leave because of the emergency.
“No! I’m assigned to the Enterprise!” Man I still couldn’t stand Uhura in this film! She is the stereotypical spoiled princess who gets her way when she stamps her feet. They should have renamed her “Veruca.”
However one thing about that tiny sequence in the shuttle hanger did soften my opinion of the “kissing” between Spock and Uhura later. The double entendre of “oral skills” is definitely there, however Spock saying that he assigned Uhura to the Farragut as it would be seen as favouritism should he have assigned her to the Enterprise... perhaps they “did” have a relationship prior to the turbolift sequence. The embrace in the lift made me want to tear my eyes out the first time, however if I accept that they had relations beforehand (even if it was a one night stand), the turbolift scene isn’t so far fetched.
Uhura still annoyed me throughout the film though. And I’m hoping they abandon the Spock/Uhura relationship in the next film. Kind of like the Worf/Troi thing they had going at the end of TNG, which was dismissed in the films.
The redesigned Enterprise: Externally- Not a big deal anymore (still is a wee bit wonky from certain angles and I hope they do tone down those ridiculous nacelles the next time we see it :lol). However I still don’t care for the Engine Room. Honestly it seems too big. And I still can’t unsee that it is a brewery. I can almost see what they may have been going for though- some shots make the beer tanks look like they could be giant engine cylinders (this is good), which are what are ejected at the film’s climax.
The bridge is still too bloody bright for my taste. :lol
The Orbital Jump: love this part! A fun action sequence! All the action/battle sequences were well done.
“Get him off this ship!”: Yeah this is still my biggest gripe with the movie. The plot becomes a little juvenile and too contrived for me from here on. It feels as if the writers worked backwards.
“We have to get Kirk in the captain’s chair.”
Well if Pike is in command, and Spock is First Officer, how do we do this?
“Have Pike leave the ship, putting Spock in command, in which Kirk relieves him.”
How?
“Spock becomes unfit for command because he is emotionally unstable.”
(This has been done before in the TOS and TNG. There have been instances in which Starfleet protocols can relieve a captain of their command should they be acting bizarrely).
Well how do we make a Vulcan emotionally unstable?
“Let’s kill off his Mother... No wait, let’s destroy his entire World too! That oughtta do it!”
This whole bit just seemed like throwing away characters to achieve a plot point. I still don’t like this, however I understand that this movie was about getting Kirk into the captain’s chair period. A film that had Kirk as anything but captain by the end wouldn’t be feasible; mass audiences are not going to accept a “Lieutenant Kirk” at the end who would perhaps move up in rank in the next film. I totally accept that he needed to be in the captain’s seat by the movie’s end and quick promotion during a crisis is the most viable solution.
I can even get over the fact that Kirk was under suspension the entire time, as per my previous reason about the hearing being unfair to begin with.
But getting back to the beginning of this part- the fact that Kirk was ejected over the same planet that Nero left Spock on to watch Vulcan be destroyed, AND his pod landing within walking distance of the cave Spock was hiding in, AND happened to be nearby a Federation outpost WHICH JUST SO HAPPENS to have Scotty stationed at... Wow! What a series of coincidences. Wonder what 3PO- err I mean Spock would say the odds are of that. :rolleyes
At least Kirk mentioned in his log that ejecting him from the ship was in violation of Starfleet’s treatment of prisoners; some writer had the common sense to acknowledge that Kirk being kicked off the ship was unconventional.
And the bridge is still too bloody bright for me. :lol
Nero was a flat villain. However my problem is that I regard Ricardo Montalban’s performance as Khan so highly, that it is hard to top it in my opinion. Christopher Plummer as General Chang was good, as was Alice Krige as the Borg Queen. However again I defer to the film being about Kirk becoming captain, and the villain being secondary at best.
The Transwarp Beaming formula: This was another big gripe of mine. I originally thought it was a clumsy homage to Scotty’s Transparent Aluminum formula in Star Trek: IV. I now see that it is a direct homage to that scene.
Originally I believed that Future Spock gave Scotty the formula believing that Spock came up with the formula himself (thereby altering the past). However in the exchange of dialogue between Scotty and Spock, I now believe that Scotty is the one who came up with the Transwarp Beaming formula all along.
The formula becomes one of those ontological paradoxes- it has no origin. Future Spock knows the formula because Scotty created it. Scotty develops the formula because Spock gave it to him in the past. This is exactly like the Transparent Aluminum formula. And whether intentional or not, ties in Scotty’s line, “How do we know he didn’t invent the thing?” in ST:IV nicely.
Besides we never heard or saw transparent aluminum again- Picard shatters his Enterprise display case in First Contact... shouldn’t it have been made of Transparent Aluminum? So what if they don’t mention transwarp beaming ever again.
It just doesn’t seem as big a deal to me anymore. I hated Scotty’s “wild water ride” sequence the first time around, however upon re-watching it, in addition to being another fun bit, at the very least they addressed the notion that transwarp beaming was still dangerous.
The music could have been more inspiring. Here is hoping the score improves in the next film. And for heaven’s sake no contemporary top 40 songs. Even Abrams admitted “Sabotage” was in the film for no other reason than being a “kick ass song.”
What I am curious about is whether on not Old Spock will ever be seen again. Personally I hope not. I’m hoping he finds a quiet spot in the universe to live out the rest of his days, and doesn’t become a “Yoda like” character, providing “the answer” in times of desperate need. Not that I don’t like Nimoy as Spock, but feel that the universe isn’t big enough for two of them. Quinto filled the role’s shoes well enough.
Touching on the actors- Karl Urban still gets top marks as McCoy. Quinto as Spock is a close second. I was opposed to Chris Pine at first, however I could see a glint of Shatner in him by the end of the film. I don’t want an imitation (there is only one Shat
:lol), but the hints I saw were good enough.
I’m not 100% convinced by Simon Pegg as Scotty... maybe he needed to mention drinking a little more (instead of asking for good food on Delta Vega, he should have asked for Scotch). And if Zoe Saldana reprises her role as Uhura, I pray they abandon the “princess” attitude, and give her character some more charisma.
So yeah... I’m eating some crow here. :lol
While certainly not my favourite Trek film, ST ‘09 has moved up the chain considerably. I look forward to the next installment! :thumbsup
Kevin
Part of me wanted to watch this film just to be reminded of why a hated it so vehemently, however some points that Larry and Darth Saber made in a recent Trek thread peaked my interest to be a little more open minded about the film.
Let’s just say I hated it a lot less on my repeat viewing.
So the opening sequence was great the first time around, no complaints here.
Young Kirk as the delinquent: Okay I get this all goes back the “alternate timeline” explanation. It still rubs me the wrong way. The whole sequence of Kirk stealing his stepfather’s car is odd. I still consider it pandering in that they had to give the character angst.
However to throw some random thoughts out there-
Kirk’s stepfather collects antiques. The ‘66 Vette would be one, and the Nokia phone would be one too... perhaps the 250+ year old playlist is part of the collection as well? Could this also tie into the original timeline in which Kirk collects antiques?
The boy on the road Kirk zips by, “George”- It isn’t stated outright, but it can be easily assumed that this is Kirk’s brother. He appears to be running away from home as well, which would tie in with Kirk’s stepfather being an ass.
I was originally very opposed to my all time hero being depicted as a budding criminal, however given the accelerated plot, I guess it was necessary. So after the barfight, Kirk is encouraged to enter Starfleet by Pike, who sees his potential, rather than just another hick who dismisses all authority.
A little different than Kirk entering Starfleet on his own accord (which in this very film old Spock tells him it was Kirk’s real Father who inspired Kirk to enlist). However Kirk’s comment about graduating the Academy in three years instead of four is very much in line with the character.
The Kobayashi Maru test: Again I hated Kirk’s cockiness during this sequence the first time around... However “I” totally missed the point. Kirk was brash and cocky in his youth. THAT was one of the points of Star Trek II. As much as I may have disliked the depiction of Kirk beating the test the first time I saw it, I now think they got it bang on right.
Cadet Kirk on trial: This is really funny- The first time I saw this sequence I basically was on Starfleet and Spock’s side that Kirk needed to be disciplined for his actions... and was thinking WTF when they basically award him at the end of the film.
So now I’ve done a complete 180: I don’t like the sequence because of the fact they are disciplining him to begin with. Kirk had already taken the test... twice! Wouldn’t his first attempt be his final grade? The test has no typical pass/fail like a math test- it is a test of character. Although not shown, I’m sure Kirk didn’t breakdown or give up on his first attempt given his willingness to try again two more times.
Who cares if he rigged the test the “third” time. Shouldn’t his instructors be laughing at Kirk’s ingenuity rather than being pissed? The hearing now makes no sense to me. Besides Kirk was given a commendation for original thinking, not disciplined for his actions (yeah yeah, in the “original” timeline).
Anyway the exchange between Kirk and Spock at his hearing was fun to watch, and I was actually disappointed that Kirk never got the chance at a rebuttal to Spock’s last statement before everyone has to leave because of the emergency.
“No! I’m assigned to the Enterprise!” Man I still couldn’t stand Uhura in this film! She is the stereotypical spoiled princess who gets her way when she stamps her feet. They should have renamed her “Veruca.”
However one thing about that tiny sequence in the shuttle hanger did soften my opinion of the “kissing” between Spock and Uhura later. The double entendre of “oral skills” is definitely there, however Spock saying that he assigned Uhura to the Farragut as it would be seen as favouritism should he have assigned her to the Enterprise... perhaps they “did” have a relationship prior to the turbolift sequence. The embrace in the lift made me want to tear my eyes out the first time, however if I accept that they had relations beforehand (even if it was a one night stand), the turbolift scene isn’t so far fetched.
Uhura still annoyed me throughout the film though. And I’m hoping they abandon the Spock/Uhura relationship in the next film. Kind of like the Worf/Troi thing they had going at the end of TNG, which was dismissed in the films.
The redesigned Enterprise: Externally- Not a big deal anymore (still is a wee bit wonky from certain angles and I hope they do tone down those ridiculous nacelles the next time we see it :lol). However I still don’t care for the Engine Room. Honestly it seems too big. And I still can’t unsee that it is a brewery. I can almost see what they may have been going for though- some shots make the beer tanks look like they could be giant engine cylinders (this is good), which are what are ejected at the film’s climax.
The bridge is still too bloody bright for my taste. :lol
The Orbital Jump: love this part! A fun action sequence! All the action/battle sequences were well done.
“Get him off this ship!”: Yeah this is still my biggest gripe with the movie. The plot becomes a little juvenile and too contrived for me from here on. It feels as if the writers worked backwards.
“We have to get Kirk in the captain’s chair.”
Well if Pike is in command, and Spock is First Officer, how do we do this?
“Have Pike leave the ship, putting Spock in command, in which Kirk relieves him.”
How?
“Spock becomes unfit for command because he is emotionally unstable.”
(This has been done before in the TOS and TNG. There have been instances in which Starfleet protocols can relieve a captain of their command should they be acting bizarrely).
Well how do we make a Vulcan emotionally unstable?
“Let’s kill off his Mother... No wait, let’s destroy his entire World too! That oughtta do it!”
This whole bit just seemed like throwing away characters to achieve a plot point. I still don’t like this, however I understand that this movie was about getting Kirk into the captain’s chair period. A film that had Kirk as anything but captain by the end wouldn’t be feasible; mass audiences are not going to accept a “Lieutenant Kirk” at the end who would perhaps move up in rank in the next film. I totally accept that he needed to be in the captain’s seat by the movie’s end and quick promotion during a crisis is the most viable solution.
I can even get over the fact that Kirk was under suspension the entire time, as per my previous reason about the hearing being unfair to begin with.
But getting back to the beginning of this part- the fact that Kirk was ejected over the same planet that Nero left Spock on to watch Vulcan be destroyed, AND his pod landing within walking distance of the cave Spock was hiding in, AND happened to be nearby a Federation outpost WHICH JUST SO HAPPENS to have Scotty stationed at... Wow! What a series of coincidences. Wonder what 3PO- err I mean Spock would say the odds are of that. :rolleyes
At least Kirk mentioned in his log that ejecting him from the ship was in violation of Starfleet’s treatment of prisoners; some writer had the common sense to acknowledge that Kirk being kicked off the ship was unconventional.
And the bridge is still too bloody bright for me. :lol
Nero was a flat villain. However my problem is that I regard Ricardo Montalban’s performance as Khan so highly, that it is hard to top it in my opinion. Christopher Plummer as General Chang was good, as was Alice Krige as the Borg Queen. However again I defer to the film being about Kirk becoming captain, and the villain being secondary at best.
The Transwarp Beaming formula: This was another big gripe of mine. I originally thought it was a clumsy homage to Scotty’s Transparent Aluminum formula in Star Trek: IV. I now see that it is a direct homage to that scene.
Originally I believed that Future Spock gave Scotty the formula believing that Spock came up with the formula himself (thereby altering the past). However in the exchange of dialogue between Scotty and Spock, I now believe that Scotty is the one who came up with the Transwarp Beaming formula all along.
The formula becomes one of those ontological paradoxes- it has no origin. Future Spock knows the formula because Scotty created it. Scotty develops the formula because Spock gave it to him in the past. This is exactly like the Transparent Aluminum formula. And whether intentional or not, ties in Scotty’s line, “How do we know he didn’t invent the thing?” in ST:IV nicely.
Besides we never heard or saw transparent aluminum again- Picard shatters his Enterprise display case in First Contact... shouldn’t it have been made of Transparent Aluminum? So what if they don’t mention transwarp beaming ever again.
It just doesn’t seem as big a deal to me anymore. I hated Scotty’s “wild water ride” sequence the first time around, however upon re-watching it, in addition to being another fun bit, at the very least they addressed the notion that transwarp beaming was still dangerous.
The music could have been more inspiring. Here is hoping the score improves in the next film. And for heaven’s sake no contemporary top 40 songs. Even Abrams admitted “Sabotage” was in the film for no other reason than being a “kick ass song.”
What I am curious about is whether on not Old Spock will ever be seen again. Personally I hope not. I’m hoping he finds a quiet spot in the universe to live out the rest of his days, and doesn’t become a “Yoda like” character, providing “the answer” in times of desperate need. Not that I don’t like Nimoy as Spock, but feel that the universe isn’t big enough for two of them. Quinto filled the role’s shoes well enough.
Touching on the actors- Karl Urban still gets top marks as McCoy. Quinto as Spock is a close second. I was opposed to Chris Pine at first, however I could see a glint of Shatner in him by the end of the film. I don’t want an imitation (there is only one Shat
:lol), but the hints I saw were good enough.I’m not 100% convinced by Simon Pegg as Scotty... maybe he needed to mention drinking a little more (instead of asking for good food on Delta Vega, he should have asked for Scotch
). And if Zoe Saldana reprises her role as Uhura, I pray they abandon the “princess” attitude, and give her character some more charisma.So yeah... I’m eating some crow here. :lol
While certainly not my favourite Trek film, ST ‘09 has moved up the chain considerably. I look forward to the next installment! :thumbsup
Kevin
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