SS TOS Cylon Raider Version 2

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star-art

Sr Member
I know Mike is putting a HUGE amount of effort into this and it is looking fantastic! :)

I also noticed there was quite a difference in the overall look of the new version vs the old. While I have not compared pics to the studio model, the old one does look a bit more like what I remember on screen, at least at first glance. But, saying that is not meant to detract in any way from the beauty of this new version. :)

It seems highly doubtful the original was made from a section of a hemisphere, at least to me. (I'm guessing the theory behind this idea is the curvature of the wing and trying to match that with a similar curve in the fuselage?) Such a hemisphere would have been acrylic and that's a bear to work with as you know. It's really hard to cut such a piece off a hemisphere cleanly and evenly, and machining it would have been tedious and time consuming.

It seems they would have chosen the fastest and easiest way just to keep on time and on budget. I am thinking they probably just cut a hole in a piece of plywood and then heated a sheet of plastic over the hole until it drooped. Then, they could simply trim it and start building. That was a common technique in their shop back in those days (isn't that how they made the original DeathStar?). IIRC, it's also how others made the CE3K Mothership dome.
 

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RKW

Sr Member
Based on this comparison it's looking very good indeed.



I hope you're planing on correcting the existing engine exhausts to look like this.

 

mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The new version is built referencing an original filiming minature pyro, Jesse paid a lot of $ to get access to it. It is very clear that the body was built from a 3/16 " hemishpere, there are parts of the model that you can only see when it is split in two that yeild info that the hemishpere did indeed run the entire length and width of the body and was indeed 3/16" thick.

After hours and hours of pouring over the original minature, help from Jesse and Mark, and measurements, I purchased the hemishpere, cut a test top and in person it confirmed to me that this is the way they did it.

There are a couple of things look at when you are comparing the old to the new, most important is the curvature of the body both lengthwise and across and how it matches the the wings. Also how the new body changes the angle of the front cockpit section, on the old it is flattened out and on the new it is more angled, it has a more aggesssive look.
 

mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Keep in mind a couple of things when looking at the show, first is that in a lot of the shots the bottom part of the ship the "intakes" are washed out because they were painted black, that really alters the look of the ship, i think on a lot of the DVD package pics have the same effect. Also, keep in mind camera distortion.

One other thing about the models on the show, the way that the pyros were cast it is possible that some of the models you see on screen were "squished" as a result of how the pyros were cast and assembled, in fact that had something to do with the evolution of the first version.
mike




Hey I was just watching some TOS BSG tonight.

The SPFX shots of this Cylon Raider look to me as if the original Jim Key design was correct, and the overall shape of the Raider hull was not, in fact, a complete spheroid design. From what I'm seeing in the original DVD set, the middle section is indeed more flat.

How are you basing your hypothesis that a complete spheroid is the correct shape?
 

Jestefarean

Sr Member
The trick to getting this perfect (or as close to it as possible) is the "pyro" Mike is basing it on. Pyro, is in fact the wrong word though. This is one of at least 3 raiders that were made with low shrink foam and not used. I heard conjecture that they were made by someone on the show for him/herself, or that they were simply never completed....but thanks to a member here (I won't name him, but he is a member here without him this project wouldn't be a reality. ) was willing to part with it. Having this in hand is the difference between guessing based on grainy photos, and having something actually in hand. (A gigantic benefit that i'm sure if Mark had the first go around would have dramtically changed the first Raider) Believe me, I have purchased and screen captured my share of rare pictures...they simply can't show you the reality of the beast. Take for example the hull shape...it's a sphere..no question. Mark agree's (and he made the "Jim Key" kit) but beyound that taking the original we have, outlineing the edge and completing the circle...you realize its a circle (dome) it's a fracking large dome too!

I was amazed at how different the profile, engines, and simply the shape looks in comparison to the original.

Thanks for taking a run at this Mike!

By the way...one piece of lore that I would love to find out about. Someone told me (maybe it was Mark) that he heard a story through the grapevine that the reason they used a cut out from a hemisphere is that it was a sphere that wasnt used for the death star or a planetoid. Don't know if this is true, but it would add credence to the why...if you had a large dome sitting around all you needed to do was cut the outline out.
 
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Blackbirdcd

Well-Known Member
Thanks for addressing the question, everyone. It is hard to watch those SPFX shots and get a real sense of the shapes - a lot of those travelling mattes are pretty sloppy (the screenshot above is the clearest image I've seen yet).

I really think the effort going into this project is looking fantastic, and I appreciate the depth of research shown. I look forward to seeing the final product.
 

greeble_gremlin

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Very Cool! I'll be watching this thread intently. I missed out on the previous run I will be saving my pennies for this one! (Theres almost too much going all at once with regards to studio scale projects i can't keep up.
I certainly admire your quest for perfection Mike & Jess. keep up the good work.
:)
 

star-art

Sr Member
I stand corrected! Glad to see such passion and dedication for these subjects. Wonderful job all around. You guys are definitely the ones to pull it off. :D
 

Jestefarean

Sr Member
I stand corrected! Glad to see such passion and dedication for these subjects. Wonderful job all around. You guys are definitely the ones to pull it off. :D

Perhaps, and perhaps not...I reread my posting, and I sound more self-assured then probably anyone should unless they worked for Apogee. I guess, my opinion on all of this stuff it's there has to be a lot of guesswork involved. Having a self-skinned foam raider from the original process to base the new kit on answers a lot of questions, but leaves a lot more. It's clear to Mike and I that the shape is more rounded, and more wonky then Mark's. What Mark did was fantastic considering the source he had access too. The "pyro" shows us very noticable differences in the hull shape and engine sections in particular. I find these differences to be most noticable in profile and at certain angles (again a testament to Mark's work at what a good job he did)

So...all that said...we know more then ever what a "pyro" looked like (based on this reference) As to how they did it...well I guess thats anyone's guess. I really think it had to be a hemisphere, or something so close that the end result could be duplicated by a hemisphere (and I base that on the measurements and comparisons to the pyro) I didn't mean to come across as saying I knew for sure, or others were wrong, simply that what we have now matches better to the original. Now...the pyro isn't a hero...those had still other differences....who know's if we will ever get everything right without access to the real hero's..but it's a start.
 

mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Quick update, lots of late nights and this pattern is almost done, panel lines are just about done, a little bit of clean up in a few spots, some kit parts and the rubber will flow.....

 

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mslz22

Sr Member
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So with the exception of a couple of putty spots that need to be evened out the pattern is done, i will start making the molds on Monday. First a big thanks to , Jesse, and Jim K., and a special thanks to Mark D. this is still part his kit, and is now a good marriage of his work, Jim's and mine....

I will say that i am pretty happy with this, it is as close to the filming model as I can get it, there were some compromises that i needed to make but not in the overall shape of the ship, and most of the comprimises had more to do with straightening out the bottom of the ship, on the original model we had access to the bottom running from the front of the ship to the back was curved on one side and flat on the other, and overall quite asymetrical. I discussed this with Mark and when he built the bottom of the ship he chose to use the flat side and replicate it for both sides, he also straightened out the two intake to exaust "bars" that run under the ship. Since Marks bottom was an idealized version of the filming model, I chose (along with Jesse) to incorperate it with the new top and make changes accordingly. This does effect some parts when compared to the filming model making this an "idealized" version of the ship, please keep this in mind if you are interested in a kit, again i think that this is as close to the filiming model that you can get as a kit.

Enjoy the pics, alot of the parts are double side taped or pinned on for the photos, and were getting bumped around as i was taking the pics so if some of the details are crooked keep in mind they are cast seperatly and will not be crooked on the kit, unless you want to glue them on that way:lol
Thanks
mike



 
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mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Oh and not all the kit parts are on for the pics, some were just to tough to tape on...





 
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mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The first set of molds is pretty much done, i have deceided that the main body will need to be Slush/Rotocast and filled with foam for rigidity, i have done a couple of test casts and so far so good, i am going to do a build up starting today for the instructions and make some more molds. This approach makes the kit much easier to build than the old kit, where the top and bottom needed to be joined together and filled, this will allow modelers to clean up the casting and build it without the need to fill the seam running the length of the sidewalls, also easier at the back where the exhaust ports are, no need to restore the detail when building, adding lights should be pretty easy, the foam is easy to drill thru.....

 

aniskywalker

Active Member
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

:D
 

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Dalroi

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hi Mike,

Outstanding work on the Raider :love

Have you decided on a price for said work of art as yet?

I'm definately interested!

Dalroi.
 
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mslz22

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I will have an answer in about a week or so, I needed to switch to a more expensive resin for the Roto/slush casting + foam process...but it will not impact the price too much. I am considering offering the basic kit, the basic kit + stand, or basic kit + lights/and or stand. This will save people who do not want the stand or lights from spending $ on something that they will not use.

I have made a new mold for the body that is more suited to Rotocasting and will be trying it out this afternoon, if everything comes out good i will be using the first casting to build a kit for the instructions this week, once that is done, i will start taking orders. All the other molds i need are done.
thanks
mike



Hi Mike,

Outstanding work on the Raider :love

Have you decided on a price for said work of art as yet?

I'm definately interested!

Dalroi.
 
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Kuhn Global

Sr Member
This is going to be GREAT re-do Mike! A more accurate piece is always appreciated and well worth it! Thank you for making it happen!

I am well looking forward to getting one of these beasties! :D
 

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