Shapeways and "recasting"

[Lichtbringer]

Advantage and disadvantage - depending on the made piece.

It´s the same problem as with cnc-machined parts - they are perfect. But also too perfect/"sterile". That´s fine if the original piece was made the same way, but if the original was handmade, the too clean parts look plain wrong (from a close distance).

 

[dreaminspired]

yeah, using a mirror tool to invert a left hand and make a right hand out of it is just as hard as sculpting a whole new hand and trying to make it look exactly like the one you already sculpted.

whatever, you guy's just like to argue.

everyone's minds are already made up on this subject you know, it's all just people's opinions and nobody is going to be swayed one way or another.

 

[giz]

Watching zenix try to talk his way out of this has been quite entertaining.

 

[giz]

3d modeling is easier or it would not be used over hand sculpting

Really? Then why do you use hand sculpting over 3d modeling? Is it because it's easier as well?

The way you approached this thread is bizarre - are you upset your design was copied or did you just want to rant about digital fabrication? Your bitterness towards digital artists makes it very difficult to sympathize with your situation.

The fact is that manual and digital sculpting are each their own skill set. One is not "easier" - most people will naturally gravitate and excel over one or the other. Your statement is childish and naive.

 

[TMFX]

Wow, so if Ralph McQuerrie joined the RPF, all of the Star Wars related props offered by members here would be removed from the marketplace because all those people are copying his creative ideas? All looking at his pictures and copying what we see...did you all forget that we're a bunch of copiers? So...it's like honor among thieves if you can't steal in our little thief community?

But we all love the source materials and designs so much that we choose to make them for ourselves or others who would pay money because they love them so much. That's the whole point of the RPF as I understand it.

Is it really a wonder there is so much confusion on this? I mean my first example quite literally, except poor Ralph is dead. What if any designer from any production were on the RPF and got bent that there was direct METICULOUS COPYING of their creativity?

As a designer paid for my creativity, it's the biggest compliment to be copied. I copy all the time, I take ideas and improve on them all the time. That's how the world works, it's WHY the world works. You can get bent out of shape at the gall of someone, or you can keep pushing your own creativity further...one seems a far better use of time to me. I would argue it's the mark of a gentleman to tip his hat at being bested, and the return to the drawing board with a fury, while it's the mark of a crybaby to throw a fit and support it with blind attacks on tangents.

I don't support scheming to make money by buying a person's work, moulding it, and kicking out as many cheap copies as you can, but that's a far cry from this issue.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

3d modeling is easier or it would not be used over hand sculpting

Sculpting with proper lighting is easier too. Do you still use an oil lamp?

 

[Megatron]

Really? Then why do you use hand sculpting over 3d modeling? Is it because it's easier as well?

The way you approached this thread is bizarre - are you upset your design was copied or did you just want to rant about digital fabrication? Your bitterness towards digital artists makes it very difficult to sympathize with your situation.

The fact is that manual and digital sculpting are each their own skill set. One is not "easier" - most people will naturally gravitate and excel over one or the other. Your statement is childish and naive.

I do both 3d and hands on and the point is 3d makes it easier to copy/reproduce others work.

3d is easier as is digital matte painting.

 

[Megatron]

Sculpting with proper lighting is easier too. Do you still use an oil lamp?

Really? wow

 

[Megatron]

Wow, so if Ralph McQuerrie joined the RPF, all of the Star Wars related props offered by members here would be removed from the marketplace because all those people are copying his creative ideas? All looking at his pictures and copying what we see...did you all forget that we're a bunch of copiers? So...it's like honor among thieves if you can't steal in our little thief community?

But we all love the source materials and designs so much that we choose to make them for ourselves or others who would pay money because they love them so much. That's the whole point of the RPF as I understand it.

Is it really a wonder there is so much confusion on this? I mean my first example quite literally, except poor Ralph is dead. What if any designer from any production were on the RPF and got bent that there was direct METICULOUS COPYING of their creativity?

As a designer paid for my creativity, it's the biggest compliment to be copied. I copy all the time, I take ideas and improve on them all the time. That's how the world works, it's WHY the world works. You can get bent out of shape at the gall of someone, or you can keep pushing your own creativity further...one seems a far better use of time to me. I would argue it's the mark of a gentleman to tip his hat at being bested, and the return to the drawing board with a fury, while it's the mark of a crybaby to throw a fit and support it with blind attacks on tangents.

I don't support scheming to make money by buying a person's work, moulding it, and kicking out as many cheap copies as you can, but that's a far cry from this issue.

Recasters only have one thing in minded - $
it has nothing to do with a compliment

 

[Kingpin]

3d is easier as is digital matte painting.

I don't believe that for a second! A good matte painting could easily involve the same level of skill as an one painted with real paint, it's just the difference in medium.





Frankly, I feel this is the farest statement that can be said on hand-made versus digitally made: They're both easy and difficult depending on your skill set, it's not an argument about which is better, but which a given person is more suited for.


Anyway, the key in question is no longer being sold.

 

[Wolfie]

This thread is going too far off topic unfortunately...

I think the main problem is there are people going around, looking through the Junkyard at interest lists and then posting IN those interest lists about THEIR items. Possibly that they've even taken pictures FROM those interest lists and used them to make their own items.

Its kind of recasting but even worse its just stealing ideas and designs from current runs to try to beat them to the punch within their own threads. Which I thought was not something this community stood behind.

Its gotten lost a little in the is Shapeways bad part of the thread though (which probably should be a different thread all together for those opinions), which I didnt think was Mega's original point. His original point was someone took his work as their own. Regardless of HOW they made it in the end. In this case it just happened to be Shapeways that was where the item was sold.

 

[itsalive]

There have been times when I was sculpting something digitally and I thought- damn I wish I was doing this in clay or wax. It would be a lot faster and I would have a better perspective of the objects real shape.

I turn the surface noise feature on when sculpting digitally because the digital objects are too smooth to make out the objects true shape. Digital lighting of the object is nothing like real world lighting on a sculpt.

I cant tell you how many times I've fought with the lighting options trying force the light to illuminate an area under the chin, so I could see the real shape play going on under that area. Sometimes it just does not work, and I have to turn the models polyframe on to see the way the polys are bent and shaped in that zone. It's not the way I want to solve this issue.

Also you don't want to get too comfortable with symmetry sculpting, because no creature or human is perfectly symmetrical. You have to turn it off at some point.

Topology is by far the most depressing biggest pain in the ass in regards to digital sculpting. I cant tell you how many times I've had to rework it for certain sculpts. Again and again and again. You cant force/implement a shape into an object without the proper wire-flow in that area to hold it. I have one model going right now that has had 30 plus edits to the topology, and I know I will have to re-edit it one last time near the end, in fact- I've outright given up on editing the topology on it until I reach the end, because at this point I know how long it will take to redo the topo, and with me not being fully happy with the objects shape and psychical surface texture. I don't see the point in doing it again, until I'm sure the object is 99.9 percent there shape-wise. The retopo will add enough geo play at that point to sharpen up the surface textures.

When people say CGI is better or easier than real world sculpting I don't agree. I agree that aspects of it are improvements, but there are many new obstacles and disadvantages to it as well.

I blame Rick Bakers awesome Frankenstein Monster for making me believe in it enough to jump in head first. I'd give anything to be a fly on that mans wall when he does this stuff.

 

[Jm419]

Hey now, wait a minute.

As some of you may be aware, I recently completed work on a wooden master for a Fallout 3 AER9 Laser Rifle:

But I used Volpin's two builds of the same weapon for reference:

Now, he actually provided me with this photo for reference - but I definitely used his build as one of the main references on my build.

According to this thread, does this make me a recaster? Even though I made my own master from scratch, and looked up reference ingame, online, and in concept art?

 

[zenix]

What the community here is saying is that you need permission to use other peoples photos as reference material.

 

[Fawbish]

I dont agree with the entire 'copying' idea (I realise I'm a new member, but have been following a while) - and at the very bottom of the arguement, there were site rules when we all signed up.

However - that isn't to say I fully agree/think it's clear cut that the site rules themselves are without fault or need for improvement. Maybe it's an individual thing where one person would let someone use their hard work because thats how they are. However - when selling and profit comes into the equation - that seems to be where the problems lie.

I personally find it slightly odd that a discussion over a recast of an 'original' has an angry basis - when the 'original' is "copied" (call it whatever you want, it is a copy of a prop from a movie that you have not imagined yourself) from the prop that was actually within the movie?

Do you think the creators of the source material would be happy with you creating copies of a prop and selling them?

On the other hand, morally I find it a bit...lackluster, to plainly use someone elses hardwork and imagination (involved in how the prop replica is made, what little unique changes and interpretations there are) for your own personal monetary gain. It's just not right really.

Bit of a grey area - but I tend to live by the rule of doing no harm to others. It seems to work. I also find it more rewarding to create something using your own skill and thought processes to interpret what you see on a 2D screen. Using other peoples builds for tips is great with permission - otherwise why would we have this forum?

 

[Megatron]

I don't believe that for a second! A good matte painting could easily involve the same level of skill as an one painted with real paint, it's just the difference in medium.





Frankly, I feel this is the farest statement that can be said on hand-made versus digitally made: They're both easy and difficult depending on your skill set, it's not an argument about which is better, but which a given person is more suited for.


Anyway, the key in question is no longer being sold.

Just saying what MR Ellenshaw told me.. I asked him long ago if someone was to start in real media on glass or just start on digital..he said dont bother with real paint if you going to do matte painting now. Why, cause of the speed of the process and easy of the learning curve. You dont fight the media as much. Still have to know how to draw and understand luminosity and perspective of course.

 

[TMFX]

Recasters only have one thing in minded - $
it has nothing to do with a compliment

that's all you gleaned from what I wrote?

The only place you can get results from pissing and moaning about competition in the marketplace is here, as far as I've seen. So I'm sorry but it doesn't bother you that that's not how the real world works?

And it doesn't seem as GRAY of an area to you or anyone else as it does to me? I very much agree that "recasting" is a misnomer, unclear with recent process and material developments, and overall an annoying catch-all phrase. That leaves room for interpretation, which is why everybody hates lawyers, btw.

 

[Megatron]

The new members keep posting without reading what the RPF defines as recasting. If you have not read the other threads in the archives and the rules go do it before you post.


This is not about competition and I not pissing and moaning if that is how you here it maybe you need to check how you read something.

And again as other members have stated this not the place for "real world" models. We have long ago made guidelines on how we treat fellow members here.

 

[Fawbish]

The new members keep posting without reading what the RPF defines as recasting. If you have not read the other threads in the archives and the rules go do it before you post.


This is not about competition and I not pissing and moaning if that is how you here it maybe you need to check how you read something.

And again as other members have stated this not the place for "real world" models. We have long ago made guidelines on how we treat fellow members here.

If you are referring to me, my first sentence indicated that at the very crux of it, site rules are agreed to when we sign up. The rest was simply opinion in an entertaining/interesting thread.

I am very much aware of RPF's definitions.

 

[TMFX]

and if you're referring to me, looking at another person's idea, and recreating it for yourself without physically referencing their work, without having more than photos or memory to reference, is obviously not recasting. It's just copying. If you seriously stand behind using the word recasting to define this action, that's ridiculous.