SDS to Original Helmet TIE helmet comparison

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Star Wars Helmets, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    SDS seem to have been taking as bit of a slagging off here over recent days, and specifically the accuracy of the TIE helmet called into question. So yesterday I took some shots of my SDS TIE to compare it with shots I took of an original TIE I had access to a couple of years back.

    As far as I can see there are two clear “faults” on the helmet, the mohawk and the undercut "web", but in my opinion it is still by far the closest anyone’s come to replicating the original helmet. In addition its also worth noting that its made of the same materials as the original, and the composition/assembly of the helmet is practically identical.

    So I agree its not perfect and the mohawk is a nagging difference, but then IÂ’ve yet to see ANY helmet of any kind that matches an original 100%. However IÂ’d be genuinely interested to see if anyone can find a closer match.

    Here are the pics (Original left, SDS right)Â….
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Note that if youÂ’re unable to post a civil response then please move on and donÂ’t bother posting. Sincere comment and frank criticism is welcomed, but IÂ’m sure no ones interested in this becoming yet another Anti-AA bash fest.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  2. CTF

    CTF Sr Member

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    Who owns the original TIE lid? I know it was spoken 'bout aways back when it was up for sale, but I've never really been interested in them... They be ugly (originals and fan-made), but saying that, I'd like to know more. :)
     
  3. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    There is no denying it is a very nice helmet. Only diferences I can see is the LHS of the faceplate (looking onto the faceplate) the SDS cheek tube looks a little thinner and the piece on the front of the mowahk is wrong. I am sure this will be classed as terrible by some.

    I could never understand why when AA knew the piece on the front of the mohawk wasn't correct he didn't ask permission to get a copy from the screen used one when it was in his hands. He had opportunity to recast it and never. I think there is a photo of AA with the original screen used one on your site Jez. That will always bug me he never got that piece right. Maybe he isn't that big a recaster :p

    Anyway I like this helmet for what it is worth but I feel that opinions are so much set in stone about AA/SDS this will just have the same people picking at it for the sake of picking at it :( .

    Oh and just for the record I do own one of these and it hasn't fallen apart in any way shape or form. I think one or two people posted that the mohawk had come undone on theirs and it was like AA had put kittens into a bag and thrown them in a river :lol .

    Cheers Chris.
     
  4. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Oh never noticed this bit. You are joking aren't you. Doesn't every AA/SDS thread start with this lets be civil, courteous to each other line then spiral into mayhem and cheap shots around about page 2.

    Even the guys who start the bashing threads start with this old chestnut :p
     
  5. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    :lol :lol :lol

    I liked the "kittens in the bag" quip too.

    CTF, the original helmet was sold to Screenused

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  6. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    Is it me or the SDS has green bubble lenses???
     
  7. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Its you:lol

    No seriously they do look green in some pics but theyre actually a smoke grey. Funnily enough this shot of an original makes the lens look green too.

    [image]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/swtie7.jpg[/image]

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  8. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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    A few things I noticed right off were the additional greeblies that seem to have been "smoothed" over in the AA version, the nose above the teeth appears to be wider on the AA and the brow is higher on the AA. I assume the brow is what you are talking about with the undercut. This also leads to the visor portion of the helmet being high off the ears in the AA than in the original.

    Those were just my casual glance observations. Didn't DP make a deluxe version of the TIE helmet as well? I would like to see how those compare as well.
     
  9. TK765

    TK765 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The Imp cog doesn't match either.
     
  10. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    I agree on my TIE the brow does seem a little high, maybe 5mm - not sure about others though (or whether the originals varied like they did on the troopers), however I dont see any difference in the nose.

    Here's a pic of the DP Deluxe TIE, I'll get better ones next week. Its a nice helmet and came with the chest box and tubes and is made of solid fiberglass and looks quite sanitised/symmetrical.

    [​IMG]
    imo this is nowhere near as accurate - although a nice collectable.

    765 - why's the decal wrong? The placement in the pics may be throwing you off. Since SDS had access to an original unused 1976 decal I'd be surprised if its out.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  11. StarWars Collector

    StarWars Collector Well-Known Member

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    There's something missing on your helmet, Jez.
    BTW: both of the pics below are SDS

    [​IMG]

    Cheers

    Leo
     
  12. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Yes it does match the difference is an optical illusion due to the glare making the white parts appear bigger and hazier on the SDS.

    See this thread and read on from post 46 and you will see it is the same.

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...3&hl=tie&st=40)

    I kind of get the feeling that this cog myth (that appeared last week) as with a lot of SDS myths (TIE helmets all falling apart) will now stick as well even when clearly untrue.

    AA/SDS may have done many things wrong but that decal doesn't appear to be one of them :p

    See starwarscollector's post one post ago both photos SDS helmets decals look different due to lighting and photography.

    Cheers Chris
     
  13. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    I think that original Tie helmet with green lenses had replacement lenses fitted for ROTJ and the whole helmet was painted.

    The SDS helmet looks nice from many angles, but the bottom of the face hanging down like that is not a minor fault IMO, its a serious fault as it makes the face look really ugly.

    This is how the bottom ofthe face should look:
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  14. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Keith,

    imo the "webbing" isnt a big issue but its okay to have differing views :).I suppose it'd be great to have a helmet with all the best parts of the different helmets but unfortunately thats not possible.

    Would you mind taking some pics of your helmet from the same angles as above so some real comparisons can be done?

    Interesting point about the Original repainted rotj TIE. I can clarify that the SDS lenses are grey though.

    StarWarsCollector - oops, you're right. Ive got some new ones which need sticking on.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  15. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Jez, i might be able to take some pics tomorrow if its not raining again.

    The problem with my camera though is that as soon as it zooms in, it loses two-thirds of its picture quality. To get the helmets to look right you really need to stand back from them and zoom in, or they look distorted like this pic:
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  16. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Its seems the tube is also wrong on the SDS as well as the bottom of the face:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  17. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Jez's helmet is one of the very first helmets made which is why the lenses have a green tint, the greeblies are missing and the general assembly is off. The tube is the same but his ear is fitted too far forward. The production helmets have different lenses and a better fit. Albeit mine popped appart :rolleyes I had to request SDS move the decals closer to the edge as helmets before #35 are all located too far back.

    I have often thought about removing my faceplate and replacing it with a TE one and painting it black.
     
  18. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    RKW - youre right. I dont know if my helmet is indicative of the latter production ones (or whether there were any amendments over time). Note sure about the lenses though - they look grey.

    I dont think putting a TE face on would work. No disrespect to him but I have a TE TIE (and armor and chest box) and imo the face is not "right", its too narrow. The rest of it is superb though.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  19. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Can other owners of the SDS Tie helmet post some close-up pics of the left side of the face then so we can see?

    Keith.
     
  20. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    RKW,

    I know TE may not be trading anymore but I saw a thread somwhere (sorry can't find it) that AP were quite willing to make a faceplate of black ABS.

    Maybe if you got in touch with those guys they could sort you out.

    Keith I will try to get pics of the LHS.

    Cheers Chris
     
  21. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Couple more comparison pics from my site done some time ago...

    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  22. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Looking at that last pic of the SDS helmet and it looks like the right hand side of the face hangs down also. Is that picture a mirror/flipped image?

    Keith.
     
  23. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    Nope, I did those comparisons with my #24 helmet. Keep in mind that that area will be affected by how it was pulled down over the mold and how it comes off the mold....ie: how much undercut there is.


    T
     
  24. exoray

    exoray Master Member

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    I suspect you are pointing out the same issues that have been pointed out many times in regards to the SDS trooper face...

    The flare and lack of undercut near the front of the chin, and possibly the 'something or other' modification done to the tubes on the face to better align with the back on the trooper... So if the same mold it being used the TIE will show these same signs...
     
  25. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Keith,

    Trying like a bear to get pics posted but due to my complete lack of knowledge on resizing pictures I am struggling with getting them hosted.

    Also just for the record I have just compared my SDS TIE to one of my two TE helmets (that don't have the teeth cut out yet) and I don't think it would be wise to use a TE as a TIE faceplate the features are not nearly as sharp and the depth of the gaps between the teeth is not nearly deep enough.

    This isn't a bash at TE's helmets they are fantastic but they have been taken from a helmet with the teeth already cut out so no depth could have been known by Matt of the gap between the teeth of the TIE.

    Again before anyone thinks I am knocking the TE I wouldn't have bought 2 of them if I didn't like them.

    Cheers Chris.
     
  26. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    I agree the undercut is similar on the TK helmets....but if the ABS is not sucked all the way down around the mold at the "ground" then it's easier and quicker to pull it off, which seems to be what AA did, leaving less undercut and that flaring effect. Having a large undercut will also put stress on the mold near the ground with repeated pulls, which might have damaged the mold there as well. So either he's trying to do it quickly or he can't get the ABS to come down tight and just under the mold at the ground....

    T
     
  27. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Here's an interesting photo of the same original helmet which shows just how far forward the face section was angled, leaving a gap on its left hand side. It also seems to show the undercut angled down quite a bit too (though not as much as my SDS) - suggesting perhaps it was always a problem getting the helmets off the moulds.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  28. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    I'd just like to point out that AA told me that he has a professional vacuum former,so pulling the ABS would not be a problem.Even if it was a home made former,it would still pull under the chin more than on AA's helmets compared to a screen used helmet.

    The area under the chin is not caused by webbing.It has been clearly modified to help with releasing the pull.As you can imagine,the face plate is a SOB to release from the mould due to it's complex shape....

    Carry on :p
     
  29. Jackie_Chan_Fan

    Jackie_Chan_Fan New Member

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    Show the bottom of the helmet. It has no flare on the undercut. That brow trim on the bottom makes it look flared.

    It is definately different than the stunt face though because it doesnt have the 2 extra holes on the frown area.

    The SDS Tie helmet is really nice overall, the Flare is terrible though. I just wish that wasnt on the SDS helmets. That to me is the worst part about the SDS overall. I can kind of live with the messed up back and the ears if i had too, but the flare... ruins the face for me. It makes the chin look too bulky from the front and from the side it looks just off.

    Still.. Overall the SDS tie is quite nice. Dare i say i even like the new mohawk visually than older one :) But the die hard fan in me says.. it aint an exact original.

    Now the trooper is a differen tthing all together. It burns me that its not right. Its nice but... not right. I love my SDS helmet though. Thank you AA.
     
  30. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    Perhaps the pulling would not be that much of a problem, but the release from the positive mold even with a professional vacuum former with that kind of undercut would not be trivial. So to ease the process AA probably did not pull the ABS as tightly around the mold...making for a quicker and easier release.

    regards,

    T
     
  31. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    JCF - I wasnt trying to suggest the flare is "accurate", I just thought it strange when I saw the side on photo that it seemed to have a little as i hadnt noticed it before:)

    The point to the photo was the gap showing how they really pushed the face forward and angled it.

    btw the mould was the same - AA just blocked up the vent holes in the outer teeth. I remember him asaying that the originals were that way merely by accident (same with the hero troopers)

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  32. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Looks like the ear has swung back a bit thats all. The ears pivot on the bolt that holds them on.
    As for the flare at the bottom of the face, when you take a picture looking up at the helmet like that, your going to see the bottom of the face. Take that neck trim away and you will see that the bottom of the face actually goes in the opposit direction to the SDS face. It tucks under on the original and does not hang down.

    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  33. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    A comparison I did a while back...keep in mind my photos are taken further back than Bingo's.

    [​IMG]


    T
     
  34. Jackie_Chan_Fan

    Jackie_Chan_Fan New Member

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    Keith: Great shot. That flare really sucks doesnt it :(

    Bingo: Interesting about him blocking the hole and it being the same mold. Thats somethign i ahvent heard of yet.
     
  35. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Keith, you're not right about the flare (on the originals) it doesnt "wrap" all the way back on itself. I dont know what that is but its not the "inside" of the flare as it would almost mean a "U" shape. Ive checked all my images and Ive not seen one anything like that - it must be something on the inside of that particular helmet.

    JCF - it emerged during one of the discussions over the "number of moulds". Some people thought there were several "Stormtrooper face" moulds whereas I think most would agree now that there was only one and the same mould was used for all helmets

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  36. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    I didn't say it wraps all the way back on itself, i said it tucks under, which is the opposit direction to the SDS which hangs right down.
    What you can see there on that original helmet through the hole is the bottom of the chin with neck trim fitted.

    This picture of the SDS flare has even been taken looking down on the helmet, so you should not see any of the bottom of the face or neck trim:
    [​IMG]

    I would still like to see a photo of the SDS from this angle:
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  37. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    A few comparisons....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And....which teeth are original and which are SDS? ;)

    [​IMG]

    T
     
  38. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Whats with the red lines on my pics? Those are not even at the same angle as the pics of the original you put next to it :confused

    Also, that red line you put in this picture of mine, whats that for? Are you pointing out the light reflecting in the plastic?
    [​IMG]


    Did you not see this pic:
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  39. TMP

    TMP Sr Member

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    What tie Pilot are we speaking about ? ANH or ROTJ. There is a possiblity that there is a difference in those two versions. :unsure
     
  40. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    The red lines indicate differences....there are many more than that but I thought I would let the pictures speak for themselves. We are talking about ANH TIE pilots...ROTJ used ANH footage for the TIEs.


    I've put your new photo in the comp...try to get the angle exactly the same...


    [​IMG]
     
  41. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Differences in the angles the pictures are taken from you mean.
    Can you not even see that the picture of my helmet below has been taken from low down looking up at the helmet:
    [​IMG]

    Whats this red line around the light reflection in my helmet for though:
    [​IMG]

    Keith.
     
  42. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    There are Tie Pilots in ROTJ, Emperor's arrival IIRC.

    There is a promo pic circa ROTJ showing a Tie pilot next to a probe droid and a death star gunner.
     
  43. AnsonJames

    AnsonJames Sr Member

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    This is a lousy photo but it shows how photographs can be decieving - this is one of the first pulls of the APH parts of the helmet.

    [​IMG]


    Click on the image for a larger even crappier image
     
  44. AnsonJames

    AnsonJames Sr Member

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    Here it is:

    [​IMG]


    I believe additional scenes with TIE pilots were shot for ROTJ also.
     
  45. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    There were additional scenes with TIE's shot for RotJ, although they reused the same ANH helmets.

    The helmet Don had (that I had access to) came from Elstree after RotJ was made

    Cheers

    Jez
     

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