Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
That’s just the liner and it’s suspention harness. You said you had a fiberglass shell.
That’s just the liner and it’s suspention harness. You said you had a fiberglass shell.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
The only other steel pot helmet I own is a Bulgarian helmet, and it's made the same as this. The suspension is rivited directly to the steel dome.
I'm not as fluent in military helmets as I am with gas masks. I wasn't aware the suspension on an M1 was attached to a liner, which was then inserted into the steel shell.
I'm not as fluent in military helmets as I am with gas masks. I wasn't aware the suspension on an M1 was attached to a liner, which was then inserted into the steel shell.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Ok, so you still need a shell... that’s the steel part.
From the looks of it, that liner appears to be a ww2 era liner. You can tell because it is more bulbous. The ww2 version is correct for the prop. Like I said prior, the suspension system webbing is replaceable and that looks to be the case with yours.
When looking for a steel shell, ensure it is a ww2 version as well as the liner will not fit right and you may also not achieve the right look or your replica.
The shell is important because that has the attachments for the chinstrap and the cover wraps around the edges of the shell and is tucked up under liner. This is how the cover stays in place.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
I was actually thinking about using only the liner. It sits well enough on my head, even a bit too big. The prop shell is being built ove this, and the cloth cover, which I'm brainstorming yet, will fit between the liner and the prop shell. I figure it will be light weight enough for all day wear. Now I just gotta figure out the rest of the costume for a Scarif rebel commando.
Jediseth
Sr Member
How do we know it’s a vintage helmet and not just a remake like maybe it’s this. This would be super cool to make and do accurate though whatever it is.
WW2 USA Military M1 CS Helmet Soldier WWII Army Liner Equipment Outdoor Gifts | eBay
WW2 USA Military M1 CS Helmet Soldier WWII Army Liner Equipment Outdoor Gifts | eBay
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
It looks vintage and ww2 liners are very easy to come by. In fact, there are some sellers out there selling Vietnam era shells with the improper fitting ww2 liners because they are easy to get ahold of.
The other thing about that helmet repo you posted is that it is the same someone posted above: Rogue One Rebel Soldier Helmet
As I stated after that pos, the repo looks off. It too looks like they are reproduced a ww2 liner and a Vietnam era shell. Like whatever company that made these were not aware of the historical differences. I can’t be sure. I only know as much as I do based on researching the correct helmet to buy for my replica project. I do know that the liner should not look like that when fitted into the shell.
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Kovnyn
Sr Member
How easy would it be to replace the suspension on a liner? The suspension, which has the NSN and item info, identifies it as a liner, for a steel helmet, and is dated 1969.
My guess is that this is a suspension and liner from a Vietnam Era M1 helmet. Without the steel shell, from either Era, to fit it to, I can't be certain. However, where the suspension is rivited to the liner, it doesn't look like an easy item to arbitrarily replace, and the rivit heads themselves appear to be the same age as the rest of the metal hardware of the suspension.
I got it dirt cheap, and the seller didn't know what it was either.
My guess is that this is a suspension and liner from a Vietnam Era M1 helmet. Without the steel shell, from either Era, to fit it to, I can't be certain. However, where the suspension is rivited to the liner, it doesn't look like an easy item to arbitrarily replace, and the rivit heads themselves appear to be the same age as the rest of the metal hardware of the suspension.
I got it dirt cheap, and the seller didn't know what it was either.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
The suspension system is not riveted to liner. The rivets are for clip attachments inside the liner. The clips connect with connectors on the suspension system.
Grab one of the suspension system’s point of attachments and pull it towards you. It should slide from the bracket.
Also, since you don’t believe me and I admit I’m not a foremost expert in military collectibles, do some web searches and look at the difference between the era helmets and their shape. From the images you posted, especially the first one, the roundness of the helmet looks ww2 era. If you are interested in knowing for sure, you can post your questions here: US M1 steel helmet forum
Kovnyn
Sr Member
It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I have it in my hands and I can see things the pictures don't show clearly.
The suspension webbing is absolutely, 100% rivited to the fiberglass liner. The suspension webbing does not come out. The triangular clips spin in place. The rivit goes through the clip, the webbing, and the liner.
Also, this is the flatter top dome, not the taller rounded dome. Where the tall rounded dome of the WWII shell will fit over a VN liner, a WWII liner will not fit properly into a VN shell. I don't have a shell to compare, but based on other photos, of VN liners, this is one. If this is a WWII liner, it had a considerable amount on unnecessary work put into it.
The suspension webbing is absolutely, 100% rivited to the fiberglass liner. The suspension webbing does not come out. The triangular clips spin in place. The rivit goes through the clip, the webbing, and the liner.
Also, this is the flatter top dome, not the taller rounded dome. Where the tall rounded dome of the WWII shell will fit over a VN liner, a WWII liner will not fit properly into a VN shell. I don't have a shell to compare, but based on other photos, of VN liners, this is one. If this is a WWII liner, it had a considerable amount on unnecessary work put into it.
DoubleCanister
New Member
I am a bit late to the party here but I do know a bit about M1 helmets so I thought I might try and contribute (I am primarily a collector of military equipment).
When you ask how easy would it be to replace the suspension in the liner, assuming that you are trying to put WW2 style suspension in that 1969 fiberglass liner, it simply is not worth it. J. Murray Inc. 1944 is currently the most popular source for reproduction parts for repairs and such (J. Murray Inc. 1944). You would be pouring more than 35 dollars into this from the cost of a reproduction ww2 style suspension and rivets. In addition, you would have to take out the rivets on your liner, fill in the holes, then drill multiple holes into the liner in order to accommodate a WW2 style suspension as the arrangement of rivets is totally different. At that point, you might as well just buy a WW2 liner.
Your liner is most definitely NOT a WW2 liner shell with later suspension. It is through and through a Vietnam era liner. The patterns seen on the inside of your liner, as well as the small, riveted buckles for the nape strap, clearly denote it as a Vietnam model. To be honest, I don't really see a problem with using it as is (accept for the fact that it is missing a few parts such as a sweatband), especially if you are going to make a prop model of the steel shell.
I don't have your foam shell on hand but in general, it doesn't sound like a good way of replicating the M1 helmet. The M1 helmet has a rather distinct shape, especially with its flared out rim which I am unsure how well anyone can replicate with foam. Also, I don't know how thick your foam is but it might be too thick which might make the rim look too thick (which will probably be exacerbated by the cover.
Low vs high domes are very hard to tell anyway so if you choose one or the other, most likely you will be the only one in the know, especially under that cover. Low dome M1 helmets are plentiful and very cheap. Just my opinion.
The M1 Steel pots (the outer shells) had quite a few differences throughout their production cycles (They made them off and on during WW2, Korea, and Vietnam). It is still relatively unclear (at least to me knowledge) when the Low dome production started, some say in 1945. An easy way to see whether your helmet is high dome is to look at the front. Every M1 helmet has a thin strip of metal folded over the length of its edge. The seam for this strip of metal was placed on the front of the helmet (commonly known as "front seam helmets" for the helmets produced between 1941 and late 1944. All of these helmets should be high dome.
The first picture illustrates the front vs rear seam
The second shows the general difference between the low and high dome helmets (still kind of hard to tell IMO). The low dome is on the left and the high dome is on the right.
The third photo shows a post Korean war liner but it has the exact same layout as a WW2 liner.
The fourth shows Vietnam war style liner suspension
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DoubleCanister
New Member
If you are looking for a representation of an M1 helmet for your rebel helmet, then yes. If you are dead set on finding an accurate replica of an M1 helmet or the real deal for your rebel helmet, then no. From a militaria collecting and military reenacting standpoint, that helmet is atrociously bad.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
I think you misinterpreted what I was asking. I said I believed this was a Vietnam Era helmet. It is only the liner. I have no intention of replacing parts, adding or removing parts, or altering the suspension and liner in any way. I was pointing out how absurd it would be to arbitrarily replace components.
Thank you. This is what I had said a few posts above. Vietnam vintage equipment. Nothing WWII about it. I may still be wrong about the shells and how they fit, but that makes no difference since I do not intend on using a steel pot for the prop. The entire purpose was to use the liner and suspension as it is for a light weight, con friendly, all day wear helmet that looks like the helmet used in the movie. I never stated any intention of making a screen perfect replica. If that were my intent, I would be going a different route.
Again, I never said I'm replicating the steel shell of an M1 helmet out of foam. I'm not replicating the steel shell at all. I'm using the liner, rim and all, as it is. The only shell I'm fabricating is the black angular ring the prop masters made to place over the helmet to make it look Swarzy.
I appreciate the info, I really do. It's jist not relevant to me for this build.
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DoubleCanister
New Member
I am a noob with forums so I am not exactly sure how to use the multi quoting tool. I apologize for whatever headache this brings you when you read this. First off, I apologize for quoting you there. I realize now your intent behind the question and that much of the info was redundant with your knowledge but there were several others here that didn't seem to sure about certain things.
That aside, I misunderstood what you meant by shell. In my opinion, the helmet just wouldn't look right if you were to only take a liner and put the Star Wars helmet shell over it (I am probably being overly critical of it though cause I know way more about these helmets than what is probably healthy). It would be missing the flared rim and stuff but I totally understand your point about being "Confriendly". I wore the full helmet once for about five hours and ***** my neck was dying.
A note about the cover, I have a few M1 helmet covers myself and I could give you a profile shot of one if you would like.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
I have a cloth cover. It's not the correct pattern for the R1 helmet. The liner does have enough of a noticeable rim, that even when covered with the cloth piece, should maintain enough of its form. Let me take a pic real quick of the prop half shell I have (though it's nowhere near finished).
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Anyone find the ear/com piece?
I was looking at this idealized creation...
Rogue One Rebel Trooper Helmet Comm Link
Not accurate by any means but it’s a good looking design and it would be nice to have something on that part of my helmet. So I’m thinking about it.
I was looking at this idealized creation...
Rogue One Rebel Trooper Helmet Comm Link
Not accurate by any means but it’s a good looking design and it would be nice to have something on that part of my helmet. So I’m thinking about it.
canister
Well-Known Member
its been a while, is there new info in the extra parts?
I can see the other greeblie on a few shots.
Chris23
Active Member
You mean the "Camera"? I know some guys offering them. But I still have no knowledge about its origin. Edit... just noticed that I shall turn it arround, lol
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I went to his shop, got most of my greeblies from him. Scaled the file down to fit the strap, added a wire. Good design for the left strap.
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
No, not the camera looking piece. I’m referring the the piece that is seen on the inside of the strap and looks to have a speaker component and wiring.
