Revell At-At WIP... finishing up!

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starks

Well-Known Member
Those oval details look seemlessly integrated!

How did you make those?

The outer part of the grille in just a 0.5mm plastic oval with the grille slots in it. I lasered it but could easily enough scribe some styrene.
On the drive motor I basically built up some automotive body filler and flattened it off where the grille sits, glued the plastic grille on, did another smooth wipe of filler around the grille and sanded it all to shape.
Not really a Rembrandt creating shapes from body filler but it gets the job done.
Cheers,
Josh
 

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Analyzer

Master Member
The outer part of the grille in just a 0.5mm plastic oval with the grille slots in it. I lasered it but could easily enough scribe some styrene.
On the drive motor I basically built up some automotive body filler and flattened it off where the grille sits, glued the plastic grille on, did another smooth wipe of filler around the grille and sanded it all to shape.
Not really a Rembrandt creating shapes from body filler but it gets the job done.
Cheers,
Josh
thanks for the explanation

End results look perfect and seamless
 

Sym-Cha

Master Member
Another great upgrade starks ... here's a picture of the ILM team and 3 of their AT-AT walkers :

AT-AT ILM.jpg


From left to right : Joe Johnston, Phil Tippett, Tom St. Amand, Nilo Rodis-Jamero, Jon Berg and Doug Beswick.

Chaïm
 

starks

Well-Known Member
Another great upgrade starks ... here's a picture of the ILM team and 3 of their AT-AT walkers :

View attachment 1457516

From left to right : Joe Johnston, Phil Tippett, Tom St. Amand, Nilo Rodis-Jamero, Jon Berg and Doug Beswick.

Chaïm

Gee Chaim, wouldn't you just love a high res version of that image!
Look at the toes! the center walker has 2 feet up and the toes are articulated down, the rear foot on the rear walker has a toe articulated up!
so the smaller hero models had this feature.

I was hoping you fella's could help me with this leg extension, the piece left of the joint:
63JYejf.jpg


I notice in many photo's these extensions are not present.
They seem to be attached to the leg itself and are intended to articulate up and down in a slot in the hip?
Do we think they were attached to the leg and broke off? or a removable piece?

The more I look at the Modellers magic walker the more sins I see, a lot looks like resin deterioration however there's lots of moulding issues but looking closely at the legs those things appear fully moulded and unmovable. All the slots for leg movement are filled or partially filled. On inner shots the slots in the hips are totally filled with only the line impression remaining. Whatever this model is, seems it was intended for a static background model only and can be quite probably ruled out as having any close up screen time. And if all moulded together probably explains it being a little more complete.

Cheers,
Josh
 

Hagoth

Sr Member
I was looking at those a few days ago and noticed they are in the screen shots and included in the Bandai kit. You get a hint of the movement again in the sequence with Luke gernading one.

As for part of the leg I think they are a separate piece based on the changes in orientation as the walker moves. They look to be a motion synchronization link to the legs as the hips move up and down. Maybe static models didn't include them or had non-moveable representations only. If motion was forced wrong I can see them breaking off. When they are missing is the full cut slot in the hip still there? You can see the motion orientation in the picture below.

I also noticed that the rectangular joint centers spin around. The ones at the hip have a slot in them. The slot in the rectangular part is on the side of the crescent slot in the joint disk behind. As it rotates a cam apparently slides back and forth. That is until you see the big close up model and then they are reversed or out of sync and there is no cam.

Slots lines up over the crescent slots behind at the hip joints and are pointing towards each other.
starwarsV_1482.jpg

Notice how the rear one has rotated down slightly as the leg moves forward. You can see a hint of the cam movement I think.
starwarsV_1483.jpg

Now they are pointing away from each other and the slots in the rotating center no longer line up with the crescent slots in the disk behind. No cam is present.
starwarsV_1494.jpg

Now they are both pointing forward. Out of sync. The head blowing off was quite the shock to the system.
starwarsV_1502.jpg

...And great job on the front piece to the drive motor and the vents. Looks like part of the original with those side vents.

I wonder if that front cap spins in the Star Wars universe as the on screen version has it vertical, or is the discrepancy just another prop error. I didn't find an on screen shot showing it horizontal.
starwarsV_1374.jpg
 

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Hagoth

Sr Member
Checked my MPC kit and it's a faintly molded detail rotated to about a 45 degree angle, neither vertical or horizontal. Given the missing armor example that they captured so well I wonder what the orientation of this in on that studio example.

IMG_6065.JPG

Actually would be a cool effect to have it rotate back and forth as the hip blades move up and down, kind of like an exposed differential of sorts.
 

starks

Well-Known Member
Checked my MPC kit and it's a faintly molded detail rotated to about a 45 degree angle, neither vertical or horizontal. Given the missing armor example that they captured so well I wonder what the orientation of this in on that studio example.

View attachment 1457727

Actually would be a cool effect to have it rotate back and forth as the hip blades move up and down, kind of like an exposed differential of sorts.

Im in the middle of painting a job so looking foward to an extended reply this evening. However on my lunch break found pics of 2 separate models with the grille the same orientation as mine and the resin cast. There was a photo of a model with the grille vertical as seen on screen. Im thinking that model is the anomaly but it's on screen so it's not wrong!
Cheers,
Josh
 

starks

Well-Known Member
I was looking at those a few days ago and noticed they are in the screen shots and included in the Bandai kit. You get a hint of the movement again in the sequence with Luke gernading one.

As for part of the leg I think they are a separate piece based on the changes in orientation as the walker moves. They look to be a motion synchronization link to the legs as the hips move up and down. Maybe static models didn't include them or had non-moveable representations only. If motion was forced wrong I can see them breaking off. When they are missing is the full cut slot in the hip still there? You can see the motion orientation in the picture below.

I also noticed that the rectangular joint centers spin around. The ones at the hip have a slot in them. The slot in the rectangular part is on the side of the crescent slot in the joint disk behind. As it rotates a cam apparently slides back and forth. That is until you see the big close up model and then they are reversed or out of sync and there is no cam.

Slots lines up over the crescent slots behind at the hip joints and are pointing towards each other.
View attachment 1457685

Notice how the rear one has rotated down slightly as the leg moves forward. You can see a hint of the cam movement I think.
View attachment 1457686

Now they are pointing away from each other and the slots in the rotating center no longer line up with the crescent slots in the disk behind. No cam is present.
View attachment 1457687

Now they are both pointing forward. Out of sync. The head blowing off was quite the shock to the system.
View attachment 1457688

...And great job on the front piece to the drive motor and the vents. Looks like part of the original with those side vents.

I wonder if that front cap spins in the Star Wars universe as the on screen version has it vertical, or is the discrepancy just another prop error. I didn't find an on screen shot showing it horizontal.
View attachment 1457689

So here's the shots from those other models. I noted on this shot of the walker used in RoTJ that Analyzer shared the vent is horizontal
bW8oucl.jpg

Also on this model. This model has the extra layer on the plating behind the side guns and the RoTJ walker does not so they're definitely two separate models. Also this can't be the resin copy as you can see the paints worn off exposing the metal legs.
CGLLyMy.jpg

K2YFE8n.jpg


So I'm satisfied I don't need to change this one back like my rear oval haha. I would say the other model with a vertical grille is a discrepancy but as mentioned earlier it is how it is on screen so either orientation I think is acceptable.
Nice idea on a moving differential, I always figured it was like a worm drive, driving a mech through the hips to the legs but a diff works to.
perhaps the cap in the end did spin and that's why MPC got it on the 45', or they could have just got it wrong I suppose.

As for that leg extension, yeah once gone the slot is visable
yfSTccQ.jpg

GLjJJwO.jpg


I can't see this operating with movement of the leg joint? I'm guessing this feature was controlled by the animators.
And what is the intended purpose? when the legs straight the leg extension is down, when the knee is up the extension is up. Is the purpose to be a locking tab that locks the leg in place while the others are moving and then lifts to allow leg articulation?

Cheers,
Josh

Hey Analyzer, where did this photo come from? it has occurred to me this is the resin model from the modeller magic page, all the detail on the side lines up but no broken neck at this stage.
ODyu8CJ.jpg
 

Hagoth

Sr Member
I agree, I wouldn't change the orientation of the hub on the front drive section. Just pointing out the variations I noticed. One thing just occurred to me. Is that last shot I posted showing it vertical an added CGI shot? It looks a little different to me and that might explain the orientation.

You can also clearly see the hip joint cam I mentioned in the shots you posted. I wonder if the leg extension piece was connected to that cam. If so the motion of it might make sense and it would possibly lock the leg position in place but it might have to be moved by the animator. It is on my thinking list to further investigate the possible mechanics of that piece. Not all the models seem to have that as a separate piece.
 

Hagoth

Sr Member
Most likely I'm completely over analyzing the function of the leg extensions which were possibly there just because they added part movement variation to the model to make it look more complicated and cool and cause people to wonder what is the purpose and how could this work? If the last part is true the model designers certainly succeeded. :p

Are any of the original builders still around? I would love to have the opportunity to inspect the original metal skeleton with its construction and motion linkage. I noticed that at one point there are two semi-horizontal parallel hip slots in the prototypes instead of the final single slanted one on the filming versions. Maybe some purposeful function after all?

Whatever the case, still a lot of fun to think about. All kinds of motion link ideas going through my head.
 

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Sym-Cha

Master Member
If you have a copy of this next book ... go to page 88 and you'll find a picture with all the metal parts used to make the AT-AT move :

ILM The Artof SPFX.jpg


It's to small to photograph properly ... and I don't have access to a scanner either ... so get a copy of that book and look it up :)

Chaïm
 

starks

Well-Known Member
Most likely I'm completely over analyzing the function of the leg extensions which were possibly there just because they added part movement variation to the model to make it look more complicated and cool and cause people to wonder what is the purpose and how could this work? If the last part is true the model designers certainly succeeded. :p

Are any of the original builders still around? I would love to have the opportunity to inspect the original metal skeleton with its construction and motion linkage. I noticed that at one point there are two semi-horizontal parallel hip slots in the prototypes instead of the final single slanted one on the filming versions. Maybe some purposeful function after all?

Whatever the case, still a lot of fun to think about. All kinds of motion link ideas going through my head.

I don't think you over analysing it. Just having fun with it.

If we're to over analyse it we say "theres no way those flimsy hip joints are supporting all that weight without bowing out and collapsing due to only one fixed mounting point, and whats in that hip moving the leg anyway, a chain and sprocket? " lol

Yes those horizontal lines I assumed were a slide for forward and back orientation of the leg. Seems they were working out how to animate it and that would give them a larger scope of movement?

But yeah Im thinking that extension was moved by the animators... doesn't actually seem to attach to anything that would provide movement when the legs moved, or even line up with the movement of the cam in the center joint. All seems pieces to a puzzle to make it add to the living look. Those poor poor animators.


Ok so went and turned on SW battlefront to see how they animated the leg movement. This rendering is really on the money. I think they got that tab locking incorrect maybe as it appears fixed to the leg... or maybe thats the intention?
But the cam was the interesting thing and makes sense.
The rectangular joint is fixed to the hip. The rectangular joint doesnt move and is always facing the joint of the hip to the body/ drive motor.
That entire hip moves up and down like a shock absorber. As the hip moves down the leg joint rotates up in the cam and when the hip compressors up the leg joint rotates down in the cam. The cam is there I suppose to keep the position of the leg centered as the hip moves up and down.

As you mentioned that rectangular tab orientation is all over the place and Im feeling the animators weren't concerned with its position.

Cheers,
Josh
 
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Analyzer

Master Member
from Sculpting a galaxy...

"for the AT-AT, the walking mechanism that drove the vehicle had to be visible, so Jon built a number of self-animating details into the walker design. Pistons raised and lowered as the legs moved, and joints spun in their hubs, all driven automatically without the animator having to position these embellishments"

That is in reference to the 3 motion capture ones. I am sure the large 4 foot or any other ones probably had static fix details for those areas
 

Analyzer

Master Member
So here's the shots from those other models. I noted on this shot of the walker used in RoTJ that Analyzer shared the vent is horizontal
View attachment 1457748
Also on this model. This model has the extra layer on the plating behind the side guns and the RoTJ walker does not so they're definitely two separate models. Also this can't be the resin copy as you can see the paints worn off exposing the metal legs.
View attachment 1457749
View attachment 1457750

So I'm satisfied I don't need to change this one back like my rear oval haha. I would say the other model with a vertical grille is a discrepancy but as mentioned earlier it is how it is on screen so either orientation I think is acceptable.
Nice idea on a moving differential, I always figured it was like a worm drive, driving a mech through the hips to the legs but a diff works to.
perhaps the cap in the end did spin and that's why MPC got it on the 45', or they could have just got it wrong I suppose.

As for that leg extension, yeah once gone the slot is visable
View attachment 1457751
View attachment 1457752

I can't see this operating with movement of the leg joint? I'm guessing this feature was controlled by the animators.
And what is the intended purpose? when the legs straight the leg extension is down, when the knee is up the extension is up. Is the purpose to be a locking tab that locks the leg in place while the others are moving and then lifts to allow leg articulation?

Cheers,
Josh

Hey Analyzer, where did this photo come from? it has occurred to me this is the resin model from the modeller magic page, all the detail on the side lines up but no broken neck at this stage.
View attachment 1457753
that last pic you were asking about I believe is the restored AT-AT that Duncanator had worked on?
 

starks

Well-Known Member
from Sculpting a galaxy...

"for the AT-AT, the walking mechanism that drove the vehicle had to be visible, so Jon built a number of self-animating details into the walker design. Pistons raised and lowered as the legs moved, and joints spun in their hubs, all driven automatically without the animator having to position these embellishments"

That is in reference to the 3 motion capture ones. I am sure the large 4 foot or any other ones probably had static fix details for those areas

Ok so they did move, I guess the question is did they move randomly or was there a precise motion.

that last pic you were asking about I believe is the restored AT-AT that Duncanator had worked on?

I went and checked the photo he posted and it doesn't appear to be the same one unfortunately.

Cheers,
Josh
 

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starks

Well-Known Member
Hopefully a nail in the coffin here... there's a key slot on the leg. Definitely seems to be a locking tab.
It cant be fixed to the leg and travel in the slot as the leg moves in an arc like the slot in the cam. It had to be intended to slide out of the way then slide back down.
JA5BpeS.jpg



Just looking at the Revell hips for slot placement, they're about 10mm too long. Sigh.
Cheers,
Josh
 
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Analyzer

Master Member
Ok so they did move, I guess the question is did they move randomly or was there a precise motion.



I went and checked the photo he posted and it doesn't appear to be the same one unfortunately.

Cheers,
Josh

I am pretty sure precise motion

You can kind of see the how the movement was supposed to work using the Bandai 1/144 AT-AT as reference. They did not go quite as far though and have the pistons on the side of the leg connected. Essentially those seemed to be tied into the position of the leg as well and as the one part turned it pulled the one piston up while pushing the other down and vice versa. Almost akin to a pulley system
 

starks

Well-Known Member
Here is a decent representation

So this is like what I just watched on Battlefront, the rectangular tabs are fixed to the hip and the leg rotates in the cam with hip movement.

In battlefront however the rectangular tab was fixed at a different angle but the operation is the same.
Edit: Im guessing as the animators loosened and tightened the screw for leg movement that rectangular tab moved and maybe wasn't the intention?

Also here they're showing those locking tabs attatched to and moving with the leg.
On those photos Hagoth shared of luke about to grenade the walker, you can clearly see that locking tab slid out of the way.
Maybe we're analysing this a bit further than these animations intended.

Also nice catch on the pulley system on the lower leg, very clever!

Cheers,
Josh
 
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starks

Well-Known Member
Ok changing my mind, looking at the resin cast... and some detail is lost in the moulding. However the inner detail of that locking tabs key show's it to be circular.
That would allow the key to rotate while the leg moves and if that tab had one circular key into the hip slot would allow the tab to move with the leg and move up the hip slot when the knee moves up like seen in Hagoths picture.

It would also be easy enough for that key to break and that part to fall off.


Edit:
I've got it, its a leg travel limiter. It locks the leg from being able to travel too far forward or back!
TA0fxhq.jpg


cheers,
Josh
 
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