Resin 3D printers - Elegoo Saturn or Peopoly Phenom L?

[squirk]

Under normal circumstances, my job requires a ton of travel. Right now, I am working virtually out of my home office and probably will be through next March.

So I have a lot more free time on my hands. I've been picking up and/or finishing some items that I've been "meaning to get to" for many months, if not years. But I've been reading up on resin 3D printers and thinking of picking one up.

To be clear, I have never messed with 3D printing of any kind before, and really have no idea what I'm doing. But I have time over the next several months to learn. After doing a good bit of reading, I've homed in on two - the Elegoo Saturn and the Peopoly Phenom L.

The Saturn is smaller and relatively cheap - I missed the pre-orders, so I will likely have to wait until it appears on Amazon. No idea what the Amazon price will be, but it will probably be under $1k.

The Phenom is huge and costs a little under $3k. But I am a helmet kind of guy and it'd be nice to have something with a large-enough print bed whereby I don't have to do a ton of slicing to generate a full helmet. I feel like for the things I want to print, the Saturn might be a little too small.

So that's basically it - I have a well-ventilated space removed from the rest of the house whereby the noise and smell won't be a bother to anyone. Do I go with the Saturn to get my feet wet on the cheap, even though I know it won't serve my ultimate needs? Or do I go with the Phenom L, knowing it has the capability to print unsliced versions of the stuff I want, though I run the risk of buying a $3k printer and later finding out that 3D printing is not for me.

It feels almost like a "tie" in terms of pros and cons. I suppose I could buy the Saturn and then sell it if I want to upgrade to the Phenom. Wondering if I am overlooking anything else that might serve as a tie-breaker?

Please and thank you,

 

[Kokanee]

Another option you haven't considered is the Form3. I have one since February and absolutely love it. I've never had a failed print, it's stupid simple to operate and the quality of prints is amazing @ 50um. I bought the whole ecosystem (form wash and form cure) and it's just really nice to never have to get my hands dirty with resin at all.

 

[acesh007]

Just my $0.02 since I print stuff at home and work with our prototype lab at work. As far as helmets to print, if you are looking at 1:1, I do a lot of those but I still prefer resin cast. Most people print those in FDM or filament printers. Im not sure if you plan to cut up the parts for resin printing but I dont think there are any hobby use printers out there that can currently print those in one shot. You may also be looking at least a week(s) of printing on a resin printer, most helmets on an FDM printer usually take 3-4 days of constant printing.

I personally have an EPAX X-1 which I like a lot for figures and models for resin and a lulzbot mini and CR10 for FDM for larger parts.

 

[squirk]

Another option you haven't considered is the Form3. I have one since February and absolutely love it. I've never had a failed print, it's stupid simple to operate and the quality of prints is amazing @ 50um. I bought the whole ecosystem (form wash and form cure) and it's just really nice to never have to get my hands dirty with resin at all.

Thx. I saw the Form 3, but it's a little more expensive than the Phenom L, yet has a much smaller build volume.

Just my $0.02 since I print stuff at home and work with our prototype lab at work. As far as helmets to print, if you are looking at 1:1, I do a lot of those but I still prefer resin cast. Most people print those in FDM or filament printers. Im not sure if you plan to cut up the parts for resin printing but I dont think there are any hobby use printers out there that can currently print those in one shot. You may also be looking at least a week(s) of printing on a resin printer, most helmets on an FDM printer usually take 3-4 days of constant printing.

I personally have an EPAX X-1 which I like a lot for figures and models for resin and a lulzbot mini and CR10 for FDM for larger parts.

Thx as well. The Phenom L has a build volume of 13.6 x 7.6 x 15.7 inches, which is big enough to handle a lot of helmets. I saw an Uncle Jessy video where he claimed to print a full Black Panther helmet in 30 hours.

 

[xeno]

Don't just look at size, resolution is also a important factor,
the peopoly phenom L and Noir are big, but have lower resolution, you will be ably to sand any layering effect on the large smooth prints, but printing small details will show it's lower resolution.

I went for best of both worlds, larger but with high resolution with the Epax X10 4K mono,
I would have liked to print bigger, but loose details because of lower resolution, or having to sand parts is not what I wanted

 

[squirk]

Don't just look at size, resolution is also a important factor,
the peopoly phenom L and Noir are big, but have lower resolution, you will be ably to sand any layering effect on the large smooth prints, but printing small details will show it's lower resolution.

I went for best of both worlds, larger but with high resolution with the Epax X10 4K mono,
I would have liked to print bigger, but loose details because of lower resolution, or having to sand parts is not what I wanted

I'm not sure I'd ever print anything small or intricate enough whereby the 45µ vs. 90µ would make a noticeable difference (again it'll be mostly helmets and blasters), but you make a good point all the same. Food for thought......

 

[TazMan2000]

Are resin printers good for printing out helmets? The resin seems to be rather brittle. For display they wouldn't be too bad but if you ever want to troop in one you wouldn't want to hit your head on any low openings.

I know there are different resins out there that offer more flexibility, but I haven't seen something with good properties for a helmet. I'm interested in hearing other perspectives.

TazMan2000

 

[squirk]

Are resin printers good for printing out helmets? The resin seems to be rather brittle. For display they wouldn't be too bad but if you ever want to troop in one you wouldn't want to hit your head on any low openings.

I know there are different resins out there that offer more flexibility, but I haven't seen something with good properties for a helmet. I'm interested in hearing other perspectives.

TazMan2000

Disclaimer - I never troop. My helmets are almost all display-only.

 

[TazMan2000]

Disclaimer - I never troop. My helmets are almost all display-only.

I don't troop either, but you can't help trying on each an every helmet you own. Friends who come by, always ask as well. I've dropped a few helmets, (printed in PLA) and they have survived, except perhaps for a scrape or a dent, which may add unplanned weathering and battle damage. I've dropped some resin printed parts and had them shatter. Not bad if it would be a Kylo Ren helmet, but anything else, and all the king's horses and all the king's men....couldn't put Stormtrooper's helmet together again.

TazMan2000

 

[xeno]

There are some resins that are a lot less brittle, like the Elegoo ABS like resins, and you can also mix some resins by adding some small percentage of flexible resin you can make brittle resins more sturdy.

I'm not sure I'd ever print anything small or intricate enough whereby the 45µ vs. 90µ would make a noticeable difference (again it'll be mostly helmets and blasters), but you make a good point all the same. Food for thought......

Not all helmets are smooth, some do have some details that might need some work to get looking good,
this image shows what kind of resolution problems you might see in your prints.

 

[squirk]

Not all helmets are smooth, some do have some details that might need some work to get looking good,
this image shows what kind of resolution problems you might see in your prints.

View attachment 1336623

Maybe I am betraying my ignorance on the topic, but is that resolution problem you highlighted any different than the clean-up you'd need on any large FDM print?

 

[xeno]

Maybe I am betraying my ignorance on the topic, but is that resolution problem you highlighted any different than the clean-up you'd need on any large FDM print?

The clean-up is much less with resin printing compared to FDM printing.
(also depends on how much support material you have to place, to print the object)

With FDM printing a lot of the resolution is dictated by the nozzle diameter and Z-step size you put in the settings.
With resin printing it is the LCD screen resolution (pixels per mm2) ( and also stepsize) that dictates the resolution, but as you can change to a smaller diameter nozzle for sharper detail with FDM printing, you can't change the screen resolution with Resin printing.
so make sure you buy the the best size/resolution printer that suits your needs, you can't (or is expensive and difficult) afterwards

Resin printing resolution has the advantage you can also print textures, like cloth and such, but that could be lost when the resolution is not adequate and is lost in pixelation of the printed part.

 

[Mr Mold Maker]

Resin sands beautifully, and is all around a joy to work with. I would personally rather put the time and money upfront into a high quality resin print, vs hours upon hours of sanding and filling an FDM print. Again, just personal taste, FDM has always felt very cheap to me as well due to the weight and usually unfinished feel of the inside.

If you can afford it and want helmet prints in one go? The Phenom L is what you want. If I had the money and space I would have one myself right now. Unfortunately in my case size is limited so I’ve got the Saturn on order.

 

[squirk]

The clean-up is much less with resin printing compared to FDM printing.
(also depends on how much support material you have to place, to print the object)

With FDM printing a lot of the resolution is dictated by the nozzle diameter and Z-step size you put in the settings.
With resin printing it is the LCD screen resolution (pixels per mm2) ( and also stepsize) that dictates the resolution, but as you can change to a smaller diameter nozzle for sharper detail with FDM printing, you can't change the screen resolution with Resin printing.
so make sure you buy the the best size/resolution printer that suits your needs, you can't (or is expensive and difficult) afterwards

Resin printing resolution has the advantage you can also print textures, like cloth and such, but that could be lost when the resolution is not adequate and is lost in pixelation of the printed part.

Thx. It sounds like you are fully on-board with resin printers over FDM in general, but you have concerns about the low-ish resolution on the Phenom L, correct? In other words, the huge print bed isn't worth the trade-off of the 90µm?

Resin sands beautifully, and is all around a joy to work with. I would personally rather put the time and money upfront into a high quality resin print, vs hours upon hours of sanding and filling an FDM print. Again, just personal taste, FDM has always felt very cheap to me as well due to the weight and usually unfinished feel of the inside.

If you can afford it and want helmet prints in one go? The Phenom L is what you want. If I had the money and space I would have one myself right now. Unfortunately in my case size is limited so I’ve got the Saturn on order.

Thx to you as well. A lot of folks I buy helmets from are likewise all-in on resin vs. FDM. I watched an Uncle Jessy video where he printed a Black Panther helmet in (almost) one go on the Phenom L, and the results were really impressive.

 

[wtyler3]

I agree completely. I am well past ready to move from FDM. I spend so much time with the post processing to get a nice product. Once I got the Elegoo Mars I realized that that is the direction I need to go. I have the Phenom L coming in a few weeks.

If I need detail I can use the MArs, but for size and basic shapes, the large printer.My Prusa will be used for items that might need to be plastic, or other needs.

 

[xl97]

* Noob here..

to be clear.. when you guys are referring to 'resolution'..

are you referring to the 'layer height'? Or the Screen? (ie: 4k displays..etc)


Mr Mold Maker

side note:
maybe you can provide with me a 'casting tip/suggestion'? (first time I tried to make a mold and cast anything!)

Casting help/tip to avoid air-pocket by pour hole/spout?

First time I made a mold... these are my first casting attempts. :) Mold: *(long story) but the quick and dirty is, 2-piece mold, (Alumilite RTV for bottom and Alumilite High Strength 3 Flexible for the cover/top) I made a hole on top so I could pour in my resin, and cast a few. I know...

www.therpf.com

 

[xeno]

Thx. It sounds like you are fully on-board with resin printers over FDM in general, but you have concerns about the low-ish resolution on the Phenom L, correct? In other words, the huge print bed isn't worth the trade-off of the 90µm?



Thx to you as well. A lot of folks I buy helmets from are likewise all-in on resin vs. FDM. I watched an Uncle Jessy video where he printed a Black Panther helmet in (almost) one go on the Phenom L, and the results were really impressive.

I have both FDM and resin printers
I just want to let you know not to stare blindly at printing size.
The Jessy's print of the Black Panther looks impressive, but you only saw a YouTube video and not high resolution images of detailed parts,
It is a lot of money to spend and I just wanted to show what you could run across while printing large parts

This image clearly shows the problems you might run into, forget the arrow, that is because of adding resin while printing.
The cheek part shows some stepping artefacts you might encounter

 

[xeno]

* Noob here..

to be clear.. when you guys are referring to 'resolution'..

are you referring to the 'layer height'? Or the Screen? (ie: 4k displays..etc)


Mr Mold Maker

side note:
maybe you can provide with me a 'casting tip/suggestion'? (first time I tried to make a mold and cast anything!)

Casting help/tip to avoid air-pocket by pour hole/spout?

First time I made a mold... these are my first casting attempts. :) Mold: *(long story) but the quick and dirty is, 2-piece mold, (Alumilite RTV for bottom and Alumilite High Strength 3 Flexible for the cover/top) I made a hole on top so I could pour in my resin, and cast a few. I know...

www.therpf.com

When we tal about resolution it is the LCD screen resolution per square mm

 

[wtyler3]

Xeno, if you have the phenom L, do you have the anti aliasing on?

 

[squirk]

Hm. Now I see that Elegoo is going to release a "Jupiter" that appears to be at the same scale as the Phenom L. I might have to hold off until I see what the specs are on that.