RED TAILS... How was it!?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by STEVE THE SWEDE, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    It's been ages since I was this excited over a new movie. I'm a HUGE WW 2 buff and simply can't get enough of arial stuff from that period. I also salutes Lucas decission to make this an pure adventure film and not an SPR set in the sky. Since that film was released it's pretty much been the norm to follow for all war films. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but the point of war being hell has already hit it's mark with me. I truly miss the adventure style of the war films from the sixties and early seventies. Thinking in the line of Battle of britain, Guns of navarone, where eagles dare and so on.

    Sadly it seems like Red Tails ain't gonna be released in Sweden, seems like it even was a strugle to get it out in the US. That means I'll have to wait for it's DVD release.:(

    In the meantime though, all you lucky yanks who got to see it today. How was it!

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  2. Monster Dave

    Monster Dave Sr Member

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    If you're looking for something to watch in the interim, check out the original Tuskegee Airmen movie. It's great - and some of the actors in Red Tails were in the original film.

    I recently read that Lucas had to put up 100 million dollars of his own money to get the film made because the studios didn't see the worth in making it. That says something for sure - hopefully George was right and it's a hit that makes the big studios look bad.

    I'm excited for it too though - love the genre, love the history. I hope it's as good as it looks. I just checked and it does open here in the US today. But I didn't see anything about it not being released in Sweden?!
     
  3. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    I was about to order the original film but read somewhere that most of the arial photage was just recycled stuff from "Memphis Belle".

    There's no plans for a release in Sweden. Seems like there's no solid plan for any European release for the time being.:( I think that was one of the reasons most Hollywood studios backed away from it. They had no idea how to market an all black cast war film outside the US. Jeez, what a load of BS!

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  4. Russ257

    Russ257 Sr Member

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    If it does well this weekend a European distributor may pick it up.

    I am really excited to see it but RottenTomatoes has it at a 35% from the critics and an 85% from the audience. Hard to know which one to trust. I will wait till sunday to see it so I can see what some of my friends think.
     
  5. Darth Mawr

    Darth Mawr Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've read a couple of reviews and they were polar opposites. One talked about it's lack of realism and the other explained that Lucas gave it the John Wayne experience thus more adventure and heroism and less realism. I look forward to seeing this film as well. Love the genre.
     
  6. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    Well it's a Lucasfilm production so it getting flack from the critics doesn't come as a surprise. What's interesting though is the fact that ordinary "Joes" seem to like it! I for one have really good feeling about this. The trailers look smashing and seem to sport that kind of adventure film feeling I've been after.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  7. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Sr Member

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    I will likely be seeing the film this weekend. From what I gather, those looking for a gritty "look at what those men had to suffer through" WW2 drama will be sorely disappointed. It's intended as a throwback heroes good vs evil type movie.
     
  8. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Rotten Tomatoes has a pretty low score for it and quite a few reviews in now.

    The CGI warbirds still look unrealistic in motion to me still. Ironic, Lucas used WWII dogfights as inspiration for SW space battles, and now he seems to have used SW fighters as inspiration to how an actual Mustang should look in flight.

    So pretty disappointed in what I'm reading, I'm a warbird nut since a kid and I know what they look like in flight, I'll catch it when I don't have to pay to see it.

    Sounds like it's great for kids though and the HBO film will easily be the superior take on these men.
     
  9. terryr

    terryr Sr Member

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    I re-watched Tuskegee Airmen and wish I hadn't. It had its moments but it was a low buck thing with a lot to stuff in. Told the story though.

    A few years ago they did a WWI flyers movie. Flyboys? They advertised it with modern rock music and they spoke with modern california voices and expressions and the cgi planes flew like jet fighters. And there was a black guy, cuz they be hip yo!

    I hope this isn't like that.
     
  10. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    I really liked the HBO "Tuskegee Airmen" movie. I thought it was a good movie. This looks fine, but just a retelling of the same stuff. I'll wait for Netflix.
     
  11. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    Sounds like that piece of ****, "A Knight's Tale"
     
  12. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    I saw that film. It was...eh. Nothing special. Entertaining fluff for a Netflix rental, but not anything really serious. And the flying was cool, but yeah, it didn't strike me as realistic. Especially the final dogfight and how it ends, which DEFIED THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

    If you want an AMAZING WWI air combat film, though, check out Hell's Angels. The dogfights are simply jaw-dropping. Of course, no film like that could be made today, just because of the insurance premiums alone. :lol

    This is pretty much my attitude. I don't need to see this one on the big screen. The HBO film was decent when it was made ('94? '95?) and I felt told the story reasonably effectively. The only addition to this film would be, it seems, the special effects. And from the sound of it, those aren't really all THAT spectacular, since they're largely CGI.
     
  13. 0neiros

    0neiros Master Member

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    WRONG, Flyboys is a decent movie, it's about the Lafeyette Escadrille, the 124th air squadron formed by the French in 1916. they totally F-ed up the way they promoted it. Historical accuracy for the nitpickers, well what can you say. The air battles were really well done, the love story is what the Anakin/Padme love story could have been, decently written. All the characters including the "Black Guy" were real people, his goal was to be the first black man to fly air mail after the war. And he totally freaking was. It's worth checking out, I'd give it a 3.0 out of 5.

    As for Red Tails, going to see it Sunday. My question is, have we become so dark and twisted, that a Mom and Apple pie movie, is now considered a POS?
     
  14. The Rock-a-who

    The Rock-a-who Well-Known Member

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    Just so you know, the African American character was based on the true life of Eugene Bullard a real pilot in the Lafayette Flying Corp.
     
  15. The Rock-a-who

    The Rock-a-who Well-Known Member

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    For me, when I see "based on a true story" I know there will be historical innacuracies <sp> so I don't quite nit-pick, depending on the historical fact (i.e. if the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ["Forget it, he's rolling."] instead of the Japanese, then yes, I'll complain - but if it's something like 'those types of jackets weren;'t available until 1944 and this was in 1943' I'm more forgiving.

    My basic premise for movies is entertainment. If I'm entertained, I'm happy. I'm SO looking forward to Red Tails because I love war movies focusing on aviation. So, I'm hoping to be pleased with this and enjoy it for what it is.
     
  16. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Reviews are not being kind so far, although I have yet to see it. I've got that question as well - does every film now need to be gritty, cynical, bitter, and deep character studies in order to be deemed watchable?

    It sounds like most of the hate being directed at this film is beause it plays like a John Wayne war movie, with archetypes rather than fleshed out characters. But...isn't that expressly what it was designed to be? Kind of a throwback to those jingoistic war movies? Not sure I'm ready to write it off yet, particualrly if the aerial stuff looks good (which by all accounts it does, just maybe not accurate - whoopdeedoo).
     
  17. DuneMuadDib

    DuneMuadDib Sr Member

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    What does the producer and director's intention have to do with anything? Indy IV was intended as a 50's B-movie alien flick being set in the 50's and all, in the same vein as the ones set in the 30's played like 30's era adventure pulp. That didn't stop people from hating the crap out of Indy IV's "genre difference" for lack of a better way to describe it.
     
  18. the_batdemon

    the_batdemon Sr Member

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    I caught a sneak preview on Thursday. They were supposed to have a couple surviving members in attendance, which unfortunately didn't happen.
    I liked the movie, but thought some of the dialog was hokey. The opening dogfight sequence is ruined by the credits. As others have said, there is a lot of dramatic license taken, which is understandable considering they only focus on half a dozen men out of the many in the squad?
     
  19. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure. If it is that, however, I think that the studios were right -- from a business perspective -- in that audiences have different sensibilities from the kind of throwback heroic tales of WWII.

    Didn't Memphis Belle suffer similar criticisms? It's an enjoyable movie, of course, but it still was a bit hazy/tearjerker/heroic triumph for modern audiences. I expect this has only gotten worse in recent years.


    To my way of thinking, audiences can handle heroism and such, but it has to be offset by gritty realism. The Spielberg produced/direct WWII projects have been a good example here. Saving Pvt. Ryan, Band of Brothers, The Pacific, these were all pretty well-received. Saving Pvt. Ryan in particular is both gritty/graphically realistic AND heroic adventure. It could be that the lack of "gritty realism" is what's making audiences unreceptive to this one.


    I have no idea, of course, having not seen it myself. Personally, I don't mind a well executed heroic adventure that's "based on a true story." For me, the only question will be whether it's well executed. My experience with Lucas' films in the last 15 years has been less than enjoyable, though, so as a discerning consumer, I'll be waiting for Netflix for this one. But that's less to do with the subject matter and style, and more to do with my faith in Lucas' ability to execute that all in a way that I'll find enjoyable.
     
  20. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I just want to wail sometimes as there could be such a great realistic film made about fighter pilot's exploits and sacrifices.

    The series Dogfights really got into the nuts and bolts of a knife fight in the sky and some stranger then fiction scenarios that actually happened.

    "A Fighter Pilot's Story" documentary on PBS years ago was another.
    Quentin Aanenson was terrified at burning to death as he had seen so many die that way.
    His P-47 was on fire badly, the canopy jammed shut. He was going to burn to death, and he swore he would not die that way, so he chose to end it quick by his own hand by diving directly into the ground. Well the flames extinquished in that dive, now he was going from a suicide dive to trying to recover in time before hitting the ground, which he did barely.
    He learned not to bother to learn other new pilot's names or be friendly. They weren't going to be around long. He wrote only happy letters home, so as not to upset his wife and family. And he was also a forward air controller, so he learned the ground truth as well.



    Maybe someday a modern film maker will nail it.
     
  21. Daemon324

    Daemon324 Active Member

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    I had heard on the radio a little about the movie. I was on a 15 min break, not much time. The people that they had based each of the characters, really were like how they were portrayed in the movie, that the writer, Ridley Scott, wanted that kept in, and that was sort of what helped to give the John Wayne feel. It's not that it's not a real feel, it's that it's sort of unexpected to keep the behavioral aspects of a person into the movie.

    Ironically, because they were stateside for so long, 'cause no twit wanted to give them anything to do, they did nothing but train. So, when they hit Italy, they were one of if not the best trained group in the Allies, besting a great deal of the white men. It's not that they were naturally good, it's that they had what could almost be considered overkill in training. Okay, so not overkill in training, no such thing in a war.

    I consider myself a bit of a student of history, trying to see what should be seen, and beyond that. I'm also an Aeronautical Engineering major. So, if I do go see it, which I'm hoping to, I know I'll nitpick the aircraft stuff to death. :rolleyes Any historical inaccuracies I tend to glance over. If I'm entertained enough, I'll even gloss over the aircraft stuff too.
     
  22. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    Cessna Driver, I totally agree. The life of the fighter pilots during the war was in many aspects equaly gritty and horrifying as the life of the ground troops. I also feel that they deserve to have their story told correctly and without the Hollywood glory filter added. A dream come true for me would be a remake of Battle of Brittain. Portraid just as it was in similar style and approach as Spielberg did on Ryan, Brothers and the Pacific.

    For Tails though I was really looking forward to it for not being that kind of a film. I've really been missing the kind of adventure war films I saw as a kid and figured that Lucas could probably pull such a story off in a rather entertaining way.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  23. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    I don't blame you. I've thought that the story of tankers or the Desert Rats would make a cool tale too if done realistically.

    But then, I tend to think that real life history doesn't need a ton of embellishment to be entertaining and interesting.
     
  24. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    It has everything to do with it if you decide to hate something because you won't take it on its own terms. If the movie is crap (which admittedly it may be, I think maybe one person in the thread has seen it?) then it's crap on it's own terms. It's just not automatically crap because it's not the kind of movie you think you wanted. It's like say, in another universe, if Indy 4 had been good, hating it because it of the genre difference. That's generally not what happened though - the genre difference was just an easy topic to coalece around for people unhappy with the quality of the final result. If the thing had been solid in any way the stylized nature of the storytelling wouldn't have been an issue.

    Arguing that filmakers should only provide what the audience currently expects would logically mean that some of our favorite films 'round these parts would never have been made. It strikes me actually that releasing this kind of naive, heroic movie is not too far removed from releasing Star Wars amid the grim, humourless films of the '70s. You have the same archetypes in place of characters, a naive style and tone, and a clear line through the story without too many unexpected twists. It was refreshing, and...fun. The difference this time (and again, I have no idea if the film sucks) may be down to the fact that audiences are too used to massive spectacle right now for this to play as refreshing.
     
  25. terryr

    terryr Sr Member

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    Why didn't they advertise it like that? I'd be more interested in that rather than the 'kewl dudes' in the commercials, which totally turned me off.
    Someone had no faith in their own picture.
     
  26. The BDK

    The BDK Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'll go see it and I'm 95% sure that I will like it.

    Now if only I could get a modern Flying Tigers or God is my Co Pilot movie to be made...
     
  27. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I had read that John Woo had a Flying Tigers film planned.
    Sadly I also read Tom Cruise was thinking of doing one as well.
    Gag! Hopefully Woo beats him to the punch.
     
  28. 0neiros

    0neiros Master Member

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    Exactly, it IS a WWI movie, not a Modern movie set in WWI, they got the look and feel of the time down. The attack runs on the Observation Blimps...OMFG you needed balls of steel to do that.
     
  29. BAK55

    BAK55 Well-Known Member

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    This is World War II. Mustangs were way too advanced to be a WWI aircraft.
    And before WWII ever happened, WWI was commonly known as The Great War to End all Wars.
     
  30. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Sr Member

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    It's doing solid business at US B.O. No2 so far this weekend.
     
  31. epilepticsquirl

    epilepticsquirl Sr Member

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    I think he was talking about the movie "flyboys."

    In any case, I'm going to try and hit the theater either today or tomorrow, premiere style :cool
     
  32. Stormy320

    Stormy320 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I haven't seen it, but the previews don't look promising.

    Looks Hollywood and the CGI looks bad. I'm a WWII aviation fan and it looks like he wants the planes to look like Star Wars ships as another poster said.

    Feel like I've seen the story again and again. Nothing new.
     
  33. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I wonder if the audience's tastes have changed when it comes to "fun" war movies. It's interesting that even the folks who lived through WWII could enjoy bubblegum versions of the war despite knowing the harsh realities all too well. Are we (meaning today's audience) less able to compartmentalize such things and just have fun? Are we just stuck up? :lol

    Another factor, perhaps, is that "we" expect a tale of blacks who showed heroism despite segregation and prejudice to be heavy and Important with a capital "I". Again, just as someone quoted in that NYT article about Lucas said, why can't blacks have "Hollywood" style John Wayne war heroes too? If they can't, is it just because of what I addressed in my first paragraph, and they're just SOL and the time for such films has passed?

    (I do not have an answer)
     
  34. Zombie_61

    Zombie_61 Master Member

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    Bingo. It's a movie, not a documentary. Of course, historical documentaries are only as good as the information available at the time they were produced, and history is being re-written all the time, so...

    On the other hand, if you're a filmmaker with George Lucas' budget and you're making a period movie based on recorded historical events and have to create the sets, wardrobe, hardware, vehicles, etc., from scratch, doesn't it take only slightly more effort to get it right as it does to get it wrong?
     
    darth_myeek likes this.
  35. takevin

    takevin Sr Member

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    Wife and I just came back from seeing this, cgi dogfights were nice and thats about it. The acting was stale, the feel of the movie felt like a flatline with no heartbeat. No buildup no resolution etc. Came out of the theatre and there quite a few people just giving it two thumbs down as well. Disappointing to say in the least. (n)thumbsdown
     
  36. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The writer is John Ridley.
     
  37. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    I was looking forward to seeing it, but if everyone says it's not that great I'll wait until it's on cable. I didn't like the other movie (the Laurence Fishburne one) because it had hokey dialogue. Like one real pilot said (paraphrasing) "We knew each other, why would we say Red 1 to Red 2? You'd say 'Hey Joe watch your six!'". You see that in a lot of old WW2 movies where they say things like "Pilot to tailgunner" or "Pilot to bombardier". It just bugs me I guess.
     
  38. Monster Dave

    Monster Dave Sr Member

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    I've been watching the audience approval ratings drop on Rotten Tomatoes. Yesterday it was 80 something now it's down to mid 70s. Give it a week and the audience ratings should match pretty close to the critics ratings.

    That sucks - I have been wanting to see this since I heard the project was underway.
     
  39. payton paison

    payton paison Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on the Flying Tigers movie. Would love to see that one made.
     
  40. Dave Ward

    Dave Ward Sr Member

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    Absolutely. Reminds me, tangentially, of a Noel Clarke interview I heard. He said that because of the colour of his skin, producers seemed to want to direct "street" movies about "urban youth", when he felt that British cinema needs to make more entertainment style, Hollywood-esque movies.

    It's a big discussion and there's obviously a lot going on there, but it is an interesting reversal.
     
  41. CMANavy

    CMANavy Sr Member

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    I may go see it. One of the trailers I saw had dog fight scenes with Dubstep music. Om sorry, WWII and Dubstep just don't go with each other.
     
  42. SG-RB

    SG-RB Well-Known Member

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    I saw the movie Friday night and enjoyed it. Maybe the CGI wasn't the best ever (seemed ok to me), but it's the only way a movie of this type could ever me made now. There are very few examples of flying P40's, P51's, C47's, B17's, Me109's, and Me262's left in the world, much less squadrons of them.
    I thought it was pretty cool to see a dozen or so Me262's dogfighting. Has there ever been a film with a flying Me262 before this?
    I also thought they did an excellent job on the uniforms and flight gear.

    Was movie the best movie ever? No, but it was entertaining and told a story that needed to be told. If you're interested in WWII aviation films then you need to add this one to your list.

    Randy in San Diego
     
  43. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Dog-fighting ME262s? Particularly from someone like Lucas who is supposed to love and understand fast things :facepalm
     
  44. neosporing

    neosporing Sr Member

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    here's the history channels version of lt. candelaria's tailspin manuver featured in the trailer, and some of his me262 dogfights..

    me262 dogfight is here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdWoFujaPsE&feature=related

    and

    tailspin manuver here:
    Dogfights: The P 51-Mustang Part 5 - YouTube

    from the trailer it looks like they mashed up some of his documented p51 dogfights and put them into this film as 'red tail' dogfights
     
  45. Goonie

    Goonie Sr Member

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    Sounds like... Pearl Harbor.
     
  46. 0neiros

    0neiros Master Member

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    I Enjoyed, it, the final battle with the 262s was eye candy. My only real gripe...I thought the soundtrack stank, first time I can say that about a GL Movie. Oh, and when our German bad guy make a comment about the Americans before engaging them with his 262 squadron (not when they first go up against the Red Tails) They clearly omitted a word he said in the subtitles, basically along the lines again of being Africans, but in a MUCH more derogatory way. My friend that I went to the movie with grew up in Austria, and he chortled at that unnecessary omission.
     
  47. Hovito loincloth

    Hovito loincloth Well-Known Member

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    Is there going to be a Lucas "Special edition" with the P51's replaced with X-Wings?
     
  48. takevin

    takevin Sr Member

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    The dogfighting was the only good thing in there and thats it, you can watch that on the trailers, the story was staler then 3 week old bread..
     
  49. The BDK

    The BDK Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I was right, I enjoyed it. And in the end, thats all I care about.
     
  50. Monster Dave

    Monster Dave Sr Member

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    Down to 74% audience approval rating and 34% by critics on RT.
     

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