RED ALERT Lost 3 ft TOS Enterprise found????

[Dennis Bailey]

Don't forget that the model pivots on the base.

Hmm, but the plaque on the base can be used to orient it.

 

[KUROK]

Woo Hoo! Never thought we'd see this model again.
We need it at the Smithsonian for preservation.
Also, somebody 3D scan it so we can model it!!!!

 

[CessnaDriver]

Gary Kerr: “This is either the real McCoy, of the best fake I’ve ever seen”.

Interestingly, that’s what Greg Jein said about the forged auction phaser, back in 2021.


That being said, I also noticed the difference in the secondary hull windows. But far too many other tells and unique details line up with the real model:


* The shape of the linear accelerator/bolt cover on the rear saucer.

* The pilot hull color peeking out where the registry decals have peeled off.

* The placement and spacing of the saucer registry decals (with that very narrow gap between “U.S.S.” and “Enterprise”).

* The overall hull color, which matches vintage photos of the 11-footer.

* The size, placement, and red pinstripe thickness of the markings on the upper saucer,,as well as the circles inside the yellow rectangles on either side of the bolt cover.

* The damage on the copper rings behind the sensor dish on the secondary hull.

* The specific shape of the saucer, which is flatter on both top and bottom than the 11-footer.

* The size, shape, and placement of the window decals (alside from the aforementioned discrepancies on the lower saucer).

* The missing hangar doors.

* The colors of the impulse engines, nacelle pylon vents, and nacelle endcaps, which are different than the 11-footer.

* The size, shape, wood grain, and flexible mounting pole of the display base.


Very few people would be able to replicate the model so accurately and in so much detail, I think. David Shaw is the only person I know of who actually tried (several times) to build replicas (initially by modifying the 22-inch AMT kit, and later by scratchbuilding a 1:1 replica) and also make accurate blueprints.

If someone wanted to put together a forgery to sell at auction, I suspect they wouldn’t have gone to this much trouble and detail. More likely they’d just replicate the 1/350 Polar Lights model (which is based on the 11-footer, of course) in wood.

And, as noted, if this was a scam, it surely wouldn’t have popped up on eBay for a mere $1,000. It would have gone through Studio Auctions with the rest of the fakes, or if someone at Heritage had taken another bribe.

Someone didn’t know what they had, and threw it up on eBay. I’m just glad people were paying attention.

Where the hanging wires went too, the hole in the impulse linear accelerator on top has been filled where there was a hole. The two hanging points on the side of the saucer too aft of the nav lights. There is that lower saucer surface imperfection I circled early on, there is no way anyone would have figured to fake that too as it barely shows up on the vintage pictures, and clearly matches the modern pictures.
There are dozens of tells. IF this turned out to be a fake I would eat a bug.

 

[CessnaDriver]

I woke up this morning hoping for new details but all has been quiet so far.

Oh I expect months before we hear anything from anyone directly involved.

 

[Gregatron]

Where the hanging wires went too, the hole in the impulse linear accelerator on top has been filled where there was a hole. The two hanging points on the side of the saucer too aft of the nav lights. There is that lower saucer surface imperfection I circled early on, there is no way anyone would have figured to fake that too as it barely shows up on the vintage pictures, and clearly matches the modern pictures.
There are dozens of tells. IF this turned out to be a fake I would eat a bug.

Yep.

 

[Shaw]

Well, it looks real to me.

I made my replica to match (the best I could) the model as it was in December 1968. I do have a lot of data on the model later in life, but I've generally only shared my notes on the model's condition between the time it was constructed to the last time it was filmed for the series.

All the photos I've seen include all of the signature elements (that would be visible in those photos) that I would use to identify the model as real. The model does not include mistakes from my model (that I haven't gotten around to correcting) which someone using my work might have included if it were a forgery.

It looks like black graphic tape had been used to fix the windows, but the original (faded) windows appear to still be there.

So yeah, this looks very real to me.


All that having been said... For the love of GOD, please take it off that stand! The model is in the shape it is because the goose-neck arm can't support the weight of the model. I know this from actual experience. I even put a wood rod in the arm to re-enforce it... and a year later my model had fallen over when the rod broke (it wasn't damaged nearly as bad as the studio model during its life though). The backup stand I made for my model is a significantly safer way to display it.

This is my model for comparison (correcting the underside primary hull windows has been on my to do list for a few years now)...

 

[Analyzer]

With the whole selling/auctioning of "stolen" stuff, how was the recent Red-1 auction allowed? That was documented as "stolen" property as well including a memo asking if any employees knew about it to return it no questions asked

 

[Gregatron]

Well, it looks real to me.

I made my replica to match (the best I could) the model as it was in December 1968. I do have a lot of data on the model later in life, but I've generally only shared my notes on the model's condition between the time it was constructed to the last time it was filmed for the series.

All the photos I've seen include all of the signature elements (that would be visible in those photos) that I would use to identify the model as real. The model does not include mistakes from my model (that I haven't gotten around to correcting) which someone using my work might have included if it were a forgery.

It looks like black graphic tape had been used to fix the windows, but the original (faded) windows appear to still be there.

So yeah, this looks very real to me.


All that having been said... For the love of GOD, please take it off that stand! The model is in the shape it is because the goose-neck arm can't support the weight of the model. I know this from actual experience. I even put a wood rod in the arm to re-enforce it... and a year later my model had fallen over when the rod broke (it wasn't damaged nearly as bad as the studio model during its life though). The backup stand I made for my model is a significantly safer way to display it.

This is my model for comparison (correcting the underside primary hull windows has been on my to do list for a few years now)...

View attachment 1757925View attachment 1757926View attachment 1757927

Glad you dropped by, sir! This must be quite a pleasure for you, given your extensive research on the model. The 11-footer gets all the love and attention, but you’ve been the primary torchbearer for the 33-incher.

 

[stephend]

Well for my two penneth worth, whoever put this on eBay deserves to receive their asking price as a reward for revealing it to the world after all these decades. Secondly, we'll soon find out how altruistic the rightful owner is when they are reunited with it. Should be very revealing.

 

[p51]

Woo Hoo! Never thought we'd see this model again.
We need it at the Smithsonian for preservation.

Preservation is the operative word. You can't imagine how much incredible stuff the Smithsonian has that never gets seen by the public.
Someone also asked what the giant enterprise model would go for if it'd not been donated to a museum. I'd dare say several million, maybe as much as ten million, or more, depending on its condition?
Imagine if it'd gone to the dumpster after the show wrapped and someone found a decaying nacelle or part of the saucer. What would you pay for a tiny piece of that?

 

[CessnaDriver]

Notice the dots on the yellow squares on top of the saucer by they impulse linear accelerator.
Were those potentially wire hanging points too at one time? Odd they have dots on them.

 

[CessnaDriver]

Well for my two penneth worth, whoever put this on eBay deserves to receive their asking price as a reward for revealing it to the world after all these decades. Secondly, we'll soon find out how altruistic the rightful owner is when they are reunited with it. Should be very revealing.

I do think they deserve a reward if they return it to the Roddenberry estate for sure. BUT always a big BUT...

lets face it, most people learning something they just bought legally is likely worth millions, are not likely to just hand it over to someone because they said hey, that's mine give it back. Especially someone that may make a living selling purchased storage units. The seller is now aware it was stolen decades ago, but one would be a fool to not look into what the law says and if they could win in court. A letter from Roddenberry is a great proof, but was it ever reported stolen by anyone to law enforcement? This is worth a LOT of money.
I wouldn't blame them in the least if they sought serious legal council before handing it over to be sure.

Frankly I expect lawfare.

 

[aroney]

I do think they deserve a reward if they return it to the Roddenberry estate for sure. BUT always a big BUT...

lets face it, most people learning something they just bought legally is likely worth millions, are not likely to just hand it over to someone because they said hey, that's mine give it back. Especially someone that may make a living selling purchased storage units. The seller is now aware it was stolen decades ago, but one would be a fool to not look into what the law says and if they could win in court. A letter from Roddenberry is a great proof, but was it ever reported stolen by anyone to law enforcement? This is worth a LOT of money.
I wouldn't blame them in the least if they sought serious legal council before handing it over to be sure.

Frankly I expect lawfare.

Agreed.

As big a Trek fan as I am, had I discovered it in a storage shed I'd get legal counsel asap before speaking to anyone. I certainly wouldn't just hand it over. To me, it's akin to having a winning lottery ticket. Albeit one with near-priceless value on a number of levels.

I would want to receive fair compensation AND assurances that it would be available for future PUBLIC viewing.

In other words, if they plan to auction it off for big bucks with no concern on what happens to it, I'd fight to keep it so I can make sure that it will be available for public display so people can enjoy it (ie. Smithsonian or Ticonderoga TOS Studio etc).

So, I'd want that all buttoned up legally before handing it over to any party (including the Roddenberry estate).

Sorry, I just don't trust anyone these days to do the right thing. Who knows what the finder is planning on doing though. They certainly know now they are holding a one-of-a-kind historical artifact.

Cleaning and/or restoration is gonna be controversial too no matter who ends up deciding on what happens to the model. How far do you go? It's certain not to please everyone.

It is a magnificent find though!

Ever since I saw it in publicity shots as a kid in the 70's I wondered about it's fate...

 

[MARK M3]

 

[Trebor]

I mostly agree. The only thing is I do think this person knew kinda knew what they had. The reason???

This video from Trek World A mere two months ago. The thing was missing for 44 years and then it turns up two months after a video detailing it's history comes out?? . I think the guy who had it, found out about the video and promptly put it up with worry that it was stolen ...lol..... It will be interesting to hear more about the storage unit and when it was purchased.

Nah, look at the seller's eBay history. He's a long time picker of storage units and estates and what not and just quickly flips stuff without doing any real research.

Everything he put in the description was right there on the model. And the only reason he put "Built by Richard Datin" is because the old business card identifying him as a model maker was taped to the bottom of the stand.

If he truly knew what he had he wouldn't have just put it up with such a low price. The timing of the video is most likely a coincidence.

The way it turned up is one of the convincing arguments to me that this isn't a fake. (Besides all the small tells).

As an aside, remember the auction phaser? Everyone was picking apart everything "wrong" with it that showed evidence it was a fake. Here, the most anyone has noted is "Some of the windows might be wrong or might have been repainted." All the other small, hard to duplicate, details match up.

 

[Trebor]

Well, it looks real to me.

I made my replica to match (the best I could) the model as it was in December 1968. I do have a lot of data on the model later in life, but I've generally only shared my notes on the model's condition between the time it was constructed to the last time it was filmed for the series.

All the photos I've seen include all of the signature elements (that would be visible in those photos) that I would use to identify the model as real. The model does not include mistakes from my model (that I haven't gotten around to correcting) which someone using my work might have included if it were a forgery.

It looks like black graphic tape had been used to fix the windows, but the original (faded) windows appear to still be there.

So yeah, this looks very real to me.


All that having been said... For the love of GOD, please take it off that stand! The model is in the shape it is because the goose-neck arm can't support the weight of the model. I know this from actual experience. I even put a wood rod in the arm to re-enforce it... and a year later my model had fallen over when the rod broke (it wasn't damaged nearly as bad as the studio model during its life though). The backup stand I made for my model is a significantly safer way to display it.

This is my model for comparison (correcting the underside primary hull windows has been on my to do list for a few years now)...

View attachment 1757925View attachment 1757926View attachment 1757927

Glad you showed up! I was wondering what you thought.

Btw, your model looks great! I wasn't able to find photos of yours anywhere so thanks for sharing the pics

 

[DerrickD]

Just want to say thanks and congratulations to the members here and in other groups who contributed to the discovery. Really exciting to read and learn about over the last couple days.

 

[phase pistol]

I did some extreme color enhancement to try to figure out where the “blue” paint is relative to the “warm gray” or “cream” color. I still can’t figure out which was the original paint, although the missing parts of the decals on the upper saucer suggest the blue was the original color! In other areas blue seems to be slathered on over the warm cream color.

Also note the arrows… there’s a loose rectangle of holo-prism material stuck to the lower saucer, but I think there’s another one stuck to the front of the lower bulge. And note the two rectangles jammed into the impulse engine vents.

 

[Ant1988]

Nah, look at the seller's eBay history. He's a long time picker of storage units and estates and what not and just quickly flips stuff without doing any real research.

Everything he put in the description was right there on the model. And the only reason he put "Built by Richard Datin" is because the old business card identifying him as a model maker was taped to the bottom of the stand.

If he truly knew what he had he wouldn't have just put it up with such a low price. The timing of the video is most likely a coincidence.

The way it turned up is one of the convincing arguments to me that this isn't a fake. (Besides all the small tells).

As an aside, remember the auction phaser? Everyone was picking apart everything "wrong" with it that showed evidence it was a fake. Here, the most anyone has noted is "Some of the windows might be wrong or might have been repainted." All the other small, hard to duplicate, details match up.

The pictures obviously prove it's the model. No argument there. But no one's knows the whole story yet. So I am still skeptical that he didn't know ...

 

[Lightning]

So I am still skeptical that he didn't know ...

It's plausible. the Average Joe doesn't know anything about Trek History. They just know that models of the ship are a thing that fans build. Everything in the listing is on the model. He knows its a wooden model made by a custom model maker, hence it must be 1 of 1. But there would be no reason to suspect it was special so why google it? My only question is why $1000? Seems a bit high for the condition the model is in.