RED ALERT Lost 3 ft TOS Enterprise found????

[JohnDark]

I'm guessing that people are wrong on the whole stolen merchandise thing. I would think at this point if the people this guy handed it over to was the Roddenberrys we would have heard by now. I'm thinking he has some right to it. The laws vary in states as well... somehow really knows. But one thing is for sure this guy is not gonna let it go easily without a windfall....

Again, there is abundant evidence that the model belonged to Gene Roddenberry when it went missing in the late 1970s and that he and others considered it missing or stolen. There is no evidence that Gene Roddenberry transferred legal ownership of the model to anyone. As such, Roddenberry's estate/heirs would be the legal owner of the actual model, regardless of how much time has passed. Other than penalties, stolen property laws are quite similar throughout the states, as theft victims have long established precedent on their side with regards to recovery of their stolen property. There's no "One Weird Trick...Theft Victims Hate It!" loophole that Lionel Hutz is gonna use to convert legal ownership of stolen property from the rightful owner. Having been notified that Rod Roddenberry believes he is the legal owner of the model, any competent attorney would have advised the person currently in possession to do nothing with it other than ensure its safekeeping until it is authenticated and its legal ownership definitively determined.

Legal proceedings take time, certainly more than a week, and clients are always advised to keep any comments, no matter how seemingly benign, to a minimum. Given that it is nearly certain that the model belongs to Rod Roddenberry, if the person currently in possession is hoping for a windfall, they'd do well to stay on his good side. Because realistically, Roddenberry owes them nothing, not even the cost of the storage unit purchase.

 

[RossW]

Yeah, the blog is www.facttrek.com.

I linked to an article there with this, above:


Maurice

That’s where I found it when I looked closer at your post!

 

[weisshaupt]

Again, there is abundant evidence that the model belonged to Gene Roddenberry when it went missing in the late 1970s and that he and others considered it missing or stolen. There is no evidence that Gene Roddenberry transferred legal ownership of the model to anyone. As such, Roddenberry's estate/heirs would be the legal owner of the actual model, regardless of how much time has passed. Other than penalties, stolen property laws are quite similar throughout the states, as theft victims have long established precedent on their side with regards to recovery of their stolen property. There's no "One Weird Trick...Theft Victims Hate It!" loophole that Lionel Hutz is gonna use to convert legal ownership of stolen property from the rightful owner. Having been notified that Rod Roddenberry believes he is the legal owner of the model, any competent attorney would have advised the person currently in possession to do nothing with it other than ensure its safekeeping until it is authenticated and its legal ownership definitively determined.

Legal proceedings take time, certainly more than a week, and clients are always advised to keep any comments, no matter how seemingly benign, to a minimum. Given that it is nearly certain that the model belongs to Rod Roddenberry, if the person currently in possession is hoping for a windfall, they'd do well to stay on his good side. Because realistically, Roddenberry owes them nothing, not even the cost of the storage unit purchase.

Still, offering a decent "finders fee" could keep the dispute out of court. You weigh the cost of going to court against just paying the guy off.. and that finders fee can still be quite a tidy sum . Far more than the $1k or so he listed it on ebay for.

 

[publiusr]

The TOMY Enterprise is about the same size, right?

Its boxing may be useful to protect it while traveling...

 

[Gregatron]

I still find a certain amusement in that the previous 1/350 models were marketed as “studio scale” despite their copying the specific details of the 11-footer, rather than the three-footer.

 

[Maurice]

"Studio scale" has become mostly meaningless. A perfect replica of the coin-sized Falcon stuck on big the Star Destroyer in Empire would be "studio scale".

 

[joberg]

Still, offering a decent "finders fee" could keep the dispute out of court. You weigh the cost of going to court against just paying the guy off.. and that finders fee can still be quite a tidy sum . Far more than the $1k or so he listed it on ebay for.

1: The person who found this model somewhere (don't know if it's from a garage sale or storage of some kind), didn't know what he had and put it for sale at a ridiculously low price; not knowing the story of it being stolen.

2: The owner of said storage is the person who kept or stole the original model, knowing exactly what he had in the first place.
He passed away: hence, back to the first scenario ^^

The court will decide in the end

 

[phez]

Again, there is abundant evidence that the model belonged to Gene Roddenberry when it went missing in the late 1970s and that he and others considered it missing or stolen. There is no evidence that Gene Roddenberry transferred legal ownership of the model to anyone. As such, Roddenberry's estate/heirs would be the legal owner of the actual model, regardless of how much time has passed. Other than penalties, stolen property laws are quite similar throughout the states, as theft victims have long established precedent on their side with regards to recovery of their stolen property. There's no "One Weird Trick...Theft Victims Hate It!" loophole that Lionel Hutz is gonna use to convert legal ownership of stolen property from the rightful owner. Having been notified that Rod Roddenberry believes he is the legal owner of the model, any competent attorney would have advised the person currently in possession to do nothing with it other than ensure its safekeeping until it is authenticated and its legal ownership definitively determined.

Legal proceedings take time, certainly more than a week, and clients are always advised to keep any comments, no matter how seemingly benign, to a minimum. Given that it is nearly certain that the model belongs to Rod Roddenberry, if the person currently in possession is hoping for a windfall, they'd do well to stay on his good side. Because realistically, Roddenberry owes them nothing, not even the cost of the storage unit purchase.

Having been notified that Rod Roddenberry believes he is the legal owner of the model, any competent attorney would have advised the person currently in possession to do nothing with it other than ensure its safekeeping until it is authenticated and its legal ownership definitively determined.

I agree with this except that any competent attorney working for you is going to say my client currently has a legitimate receipt of ownership of this valuable item, please produce the written proof that ownership was ever transferred from the studio that owned this model to your client. Like most of these relics it probably unofficially went out the back door at some point. If that receipt transferring ownership exists (and it should if this was an official gift from the studio) this is a done deal, if not we may see a fight to get legal ownership definitively determined.

Think about the 3.1 Million X-Wing auction that just happened. That had "disappeared" since the 70s also. There is 0 chance the police are going to come and arrest the person who bought it at that auction for buying stolen property if some one claims to have owned it. They are going to say to the person making the claim to produce the proof of ownership. If that is Lucas Film they have a receipt, if that is someone who took it with them as a souvenir when filming was done it may be a bit more grey area.

 

[batguy]

I think the circumstances and the letter from Gene do a pretty good job of establishing that the model became "stolen property" at some point in 1979. It did change hands (in the long term sense) without the previous owner's consent.

But now there may uncertainty about whether the rightful owner in 1979 was Gene Roddenberry or the Paramount studio.

If you had asked the studio during the 1970s (when the model was on Gene's desk), they would have probably shrugged their shoulders and said it was Gene's. But that was back when ST was just a cancelled old TV show rather than a "franchise" and spaceship models weren't worth 7 figures.

Do the Roddenberrys have any paperwork establishing ownership at that time, separate from Paramount? Where did the money for its original construction come from? If it was always supposedly Gene's, did he officially lease it out to the studio during filming? Or was it the studio's, and then did they ever make any official note of transferring ownership to him when the show ended?

This model discovery could cause a bit of a ruckus between the Roddenberrys and Paramount.


I mean, yeah, the smartest move for everyone involved would probably be for the current owner to let Rod Roddenberry have it, and for Rod to give him a hefty "finder's fee" so everybody goes away happy. If the current owner tries to fight it then he may lose the case to Paramount or he may lose it to Rod. But either way he probably loses.

If a judge decides that the Roddenberrys don't have proof of ownership apart from the studio, but the studio doesn't bother to pursue the matter against the current person holding the model . . . I don't know how that turns out.

But I would expect Paramount to have an opinion about this. They may not care about most 60yo prop models but this one has big historical significance & dollar value. If they have a decent case then it's probably worth spending some lawyer-hours to go after it.

 

[feek61]

The 33" model was gifted to Gene from Paramount after production ended on the original series; is there paperwork to prove it, who knows.

 

[Ant1988]

I agree with this except that any competent attorney working for you is going to say my client currently has a legitimate receipt of ownership of this valuable item, please produce the written proof that ownership was ever transferred from the studio that owned this model to your client. Like most of these relics it probably unofficially went out the back door at some point. If that receipt transferring ownership exists (and it should if this was an official gift from the studio) this is a done deal, if not we may see a fight to get legal ownership definitively determined.

Think about the 3.1 Million X-Wing auction that just happened. That had "disappeared" since the 70s also. There is 0 chance the police are going to come and arrest the person who bought it at that auction for buying stolen property if some one claims to have owned it. They are going to say to the person making the claim to produce the proof of ownership. If that is Lucas Film they have a receipt, if that is someone who took it with them as a souvenir when filming was done it may be a bit more grey area.

Exactly what I have been thinking. There's a reason why we haven't heard anything in a couple weeks. It's because this guy is gonna try his best to hold onto it and then auction it off. I bet he has a team of lawyers who will do their best prove their is no reliable paperwork to prove it's ownership. We all know Gene owned it via the letter and photos. But thats still not definitive proof and lawyers will try to spin it that way.

I don't think this guy just is just gonna give it to Roddenberry even for a finders fee. Unless it's substantial. He knows this thing is worth at least 1mil...lol
If he were a big Trek fan that may not be the case.

So to court it will go I bet. It's a gamble though on the storage unit guys part. He can win or lose big.

 

[publiusr]

The Feds pointed guns at everybody involved in Sue the T-Rex...though I feel that was earned. The folks who buy storage units sight-unseen? I consider many of them vultures who profit off another's hard time.

I say let him have his fun...and maybe Gov. Gavin can send someone to yank it away while in the act of it being suctioned. It really does need to be in a museum.

 

[weisshaupt]

Exactly what I have been thinking. There's a reason why we haven't heard anything in a couple weeks. It's because this guy is gonna try his best to hold onto it and then auction it off. I bet he has a team of lawyers who will do their best prove their is no reliable paperwork to prove it's ownership. We all know Gene owned it via the letter and photos. But thats still not definitive proof and lawyers will try to spin it that way.

I don't think this guy just is just gonna give it to Roddenberry even for a finders fee. Unless it's substantial. He knows this thing is worth at least 1mil...lol
If he were a big Trek fan that may not be the case.

So to court it will go I bet. It's a gamble though on the storage unit guys part. He can win or lose big.

Folks will do the math. The AVERAGE cost of going to court for a civil case in the US is around $130K. You know the Roddenberry estate isn't going to hire average lawyers, so , you can be they are looking at a budget of $200K or more. The Storage Unit guy is looking at similar costs - which they probably can't afford. If Paramount gets involved you can pretty much double those numbers. Lawyers earn money my making cases difficult. How many divorce cases drag out because one party or both is convinced by their lawyer that they can get, and they deserve, more than half? And this is very much a he said/she said case. One "expert" witness authenticates the model. Another claims its not the original. Given what I have seen it is obvious who is right, and it will probably be obvious in court - which provides further incentive to settle if you are the storage unit guy.

Yeah the model is worth more than the court costs. A Million? 20 Million? No way to really determine that without letting it go to auction.. So the actual gain in the case is quantitatively unknown. If one doesn't plan to auction it - which presumably the Roddenberry estate would not - it makes perfect sense to offer the storage unit guy at LEAST $200k to keep it out of court. Storage guy is looking at personal costs he probably can afford if he loses the case. Its a horrible gamble. He thought to make a grand or two. If cooler heads prevail he can walk away with 100X that or more , bird in hand.

 

[Ant1988]

Folks will do the math. The AVERAGE cost of going to court for a civil case in the US is around $130K. You know the Roddenberry estate isn't going to hire average lawyers, so , you can be they are looking at a budget of $200K or more. The Storage Unit guy is looking at similar costs - which they probably can't afford. If Paramount gets involved you can pretty much double those numbers. Lawyers earn money my making cases difficult. How many divorce cases drag out because one party or both is convinced by their lawyer that they can get, and they deserve, more than half? And this is very much a he said/she said case. One "expert" witness authenticates the model. Another claims its not the original. Given what I have seen it is obvious who is right, and it will probably be obvious in court - which provides further incentive to settle if you are the storage unit guy.

Yeah the model is worth more than the court costs. A Million? 20 Million? No way to really determine that without letting it go to auction.. So the actual gain in the case is quantitatively unknown. If one doesn't plan to auction it - which presumably the Roddenberry estate would not - it makes perfect sense to offer the storage unit guy at LEAST $200k to keep it out of court. Storage guy is looking at personal costs he probably can afford if he loses the case. Its a horrible gamble. He thought to make a grand or two. If cooler heads prevail he can walk away with 100X that or more , bird in hand.

This is true. But greed knows no bounds..Im thinking he had so much attention put up on him..(with dozens of fans emailing him and telling him what he had) he feels he has hit the lottery. Perhaps cooler heads will prevail ...but you know lawyers....lol

 

[Maurice]

Roddenberry didn't pay for the model's construction. Desilu did. That much is certain.

How many people still have the receipts to most things they purchased a decade ago? If that sort of paper trail were necessary practically no one could get missing property back. Courts know this. There is, however, ample documentation that GR had the model is his possession for almost a decade. The circumstances of it leaving his hands is well-documented.

 

[batguy]

Roddenberry didn't pay for the model's construction. Desilu did. That much is certain.

How many people still have the receipts to most things they purchased a decade ago? If that sort of paper trail were necessary practically no one could get missing property back. Courts know this. There is, however, ample documentation that GR had the model is his possession for almost a decade. The circumstances of it leaving his hands is well-documented.

Agreed. The Ebay guy doesn't have a chance against the Roddenberrys in a direct court squabble.


But right now I don't see any reason to assume there is any trouble at all. This isn't the O.J. Simpson trial. We are not owed hourly updates. They might be quiet for several weeks and then pop up & say "It's a done deal, the model is back with Rod and a restoration team is being assembled."

 

[Mark2000]

Rod Roddenberry has released a statement on the 3 footer that was published on trekmovie.com

Rod Roddenberry In Talks To Recover What May Be The Lost Original Enterprise Model From ‘Star Trek’ [UPDATED]

A decades-long mystery about the 3-foot Enterprise model may have been solved.

trekmovie.com

“Along with much of the Star Trek community, I was excited and pleased to learn that the original 3-foot filming model of the Starship Enterprise appears to have been discovered after being missing for decades (pending full authentication). I can confirm that I am now, through an intermediary, in contact with the individual who possesses the model.

This prototype played a key role in the visualizing design of the famous television starship during Star Trek’s early development in 1964. Once the show went into production, the model was actually filmed in numerous visual effects shots seen throughout the life of the original Star Trek series, along with a larger, 12-foot model that is currently displayed at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. I am convinced that this prototype model holds immense significance for Star Trek and its 58-year history. From its creation in the mid-60s until about 1977, the model was in the possession of my father, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry. Unfortunately, it went missing after being loaned out during the production of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Beyond its physical value, the greater significance is this prototype Enterprise model really represents the underpinning ideas my father imbued into the series. That we are clever, resilient and can learn from our mistakes. We can and will move beyond archaic belief systems. And once we truly embrace the infinite diversity all around us, both in form and idea, we will then take those next step into a prosperous and unlimited future.

Guided by this principle, one of my primary goals over the past decade has been to locate, recover, and digitally archive significant Star Trek materials and artifacts through the Roddenberry Archive project. The intention would be to scan it in the finest detail for the Roddenberry Archives and after rigorous scrutiny make it available to the public. Furthermore, I firmly believe that a piece of such importance should not be confined to any private collection. This iconic artifact should be enshrined along side the 12-foot shooting model at the Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum, where it can serve to help tell the story of television history, the history of space exploration and ultimately, a beacon of hope for the future.”

 

[Gregatron]

Excellent. Best case scenario, assuming he actually acquires it. We’ll see how this plays out.

 

[Ant1988]

Rod Roddenberry has released a statement in the 3 footer that was published on trekmovie.com

Rod Roddenberry In Talks To Recover What May Be The Lost Original Enterprise Model From ‘Star Trek’ [UPDATED]

A decades-long mystery about the 3-foot Enterprise model may have been solved.

trekmovie.com

I'm glad he feels it should be at the Smithsonian with it's larger sibling.

 

[publiusr]

With any luck, scans can be had right away as part of the verification process (and made available to the public) before final dispensation of the model itself is decided.