Question using dry pigments for shading and detailing

whb64

Active Member
I figure with all the talent here, this is the best place to ask this question :)

What and where is the best place to get dry pigments for dry brushing to detail and add contrast and color depth?

What I would like to do if possible is combine the pigment with a graphite powder to make a 'green metallic/metal' effect on certain panels. I'm sure someone on here has done this, so best place to ask.
 

korben44

Sr Member
When I do use powders, I use Tamiya's. I don't see why it wouldn't work to mix them with a graphite powder. I'm always testing new techniques out, so I'd say there is no harm and seeing if it would work well, especially if you have all the products on hand.

Color depth is a broad category. But my rule of thumb is layers. The more layers you have, the more depth you will get. I think shading is not necessary, too. I could never understand why a lot of guys use pre-shading or pre-highlighting under their main coats of paint. That is never done on actual vehicles, so I just don't get it. What creates shading is light. If you're looking to add depth with weathering, that's a different story. But even then, I would never pre-shade or pre-highlight. IMO, that technique, while looking cool, does not add to the realism of the model.

I think washes are much more important to adding depth to the color on a vehicle.
 

Analyzer

Sr Member
Tamiya Weathering powders are great for metallic effects.

You can also use pastels/charcoal. Just scrap the sticks with a knife to get a pile of powder

I use the Tamiya set that has gunmetal, silver and rust on just about everything.

The powders have an oily type of base so they stick really nice unlike regular pastels

I find the silver and gun metal applied with the applicator that comes in the set over a base coat that has had some washes applied gives a really nice metallic look to something

below are a few examples of the effect on a 1/72 Viper MKVII and a couple of 1/1000 ships from Yamato 2199

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JeffBond

Active Member
I'm with you about pre-shading. Probably because I'm lazy but I do agree it does not add realism and makes for more of an artistic interpretation of a subject--which can be fine, but I usually just get the best results by photographing my kits outside in natural light.
 

korben44

Sr Member
I'm with you about pre-shading. Probably because I'm lazy but I do agree it does not add realism and makes for more of an artistic interpretation of a subject--which can be fine, but I usually just get the best results by photographing my kits outside in natural light.
When I first got into modeling, back before The Force Awakens came out, I watched a lot of videos on painting models. I saw them pre-shading and pre-highlighting. But I was lazy and just didn't want to do it...lol... Eventually, that lead me to washes, and in particular, oil washes. So it may have been born out of laziness, but I also think I just didn't like the way it looked. It would work really well if you were trying to copy a more anime style. But I shoot for realism.
 

Analyzer

Sr Member
Rather than pre-shading I prefer washes and drybrushing with oils

Rather than only uniformly pin washing panel lines with a dark black color. I find it better to smear on thinned oils and wipe it off, allowing it to settle in recesses like it naturally would

Then dabbing on some white, tan, or light grey oil paint that is not thinned and then blending it in/wiping it off with a cloth leaving just a hint of it can help give a more natural faded look to higher areas and panels as well as streaking.
 

Riceball

Sr Member
This is basically what I do except that I use nothing but acrylics. I'll paint a base coat, once dry I'll give it a good wash, before the wash is completely dry I'll dry brush it. Once the wash and dry brush is completely dry I'll give it another, lighter, dry brush so that only the absolute highest points are getting paint. But I've really only used this technique on miniatures, I haven't actually painted a model in quite a few decades now.
 

whb64

Active Member
Ok here's what I am trying to do...

This is for a K'Tinga build and I understand what you guys are saying about preshading panel lines. I should have been more specific. These are the 'plating' panels on the D7. I think I successfully came up with a base paint and now I am trying to do a contrast for the panels. I would like it to look like a 'green metal', so that's why I am playing with the graphite powder too. For the base I made a mix of Titanium and Gun Metal Metalizers and added a lacquer green- Italian Olive in a satin finish. It came out very interesting. At certain angles and with the right lighting the ship does have a greenish look to it, but change the angle and it looks gray... which is how I remember it on screen. So kinda best of both worlds... it has a screen look, but is also green as the studio painted it. I could do the same technique for the panels and use a color called Oregano, which is a nice compliment shade and tone, but that's a lot of masking! Doing rubs seems to go faster. Plus if I don't like it I should be able to use a damp cloth and wipe it off.

I'll post some pictures when I get the right color and shade for the rubs I am trying.

I am practicing on a kit bash I am working on... this is it with a base coat of Titanium.

VeJXNzY.jpg

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Analyzer

Sr Member
If you are looking for a more green metallic, you could also try washing the model with a green ink

Tamiya makes one, but hand washing with it over a tamiya base coat may not work as I have found the thinner can mess with the existing tamiya paint layer.

On the other hand, you could thin it and airbrush it over the existing base. It will be translucent and essentially tint it green

You could also instead wash it with green inks from GW/Citadel paints or P3 paints as they are water based acrylics

Practice on a scrap piece or the underside first to make sure it is what you are looking for

You can see an example of this here on the armor plating, specifically on the Warpwolve's fist armor where I used a green ink wash over a gold color
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korben44

Sr Member
The one thing to remember is that you can use just about anything as a modeler. This is an art form, after all... Your imagination is never limited and trying new things and different techniques are always the right thing to do.
 

BenCozine

Active Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The one thing to remember is that you can use just about anything as a modeler. This is an art form, after all... Your imagination is never limited and trying new things and different techniques are always the right thing to do.
This is beyond a fantastic quote; it apply s to the beginner as well as the advanced expert.
 

korben44

Sr Member
Ok here's what I am trying to do...

This is for a K'Tinga build and I understand what you guys are saying about preshading panel lines. I should have been more specific. These are the 'plating' panels on the D7. I think I successfully came up with a base paint and now I am trying to do a contrast for the panels. I would like it to look like a 'green metal', so that's why I am playing with the graphite powder too. For the base I made a mix of Titanium and Gun Metal Metalizers and added a lacquer green- Italian Olive in a satin finish. It came out very interesting. At certain angles and with the right lighting the ship does have a greenish look to it, but change the angle and it looks gray... which is how I remember it on screen. So kinda best of both worlds... it has a screen look, but is also green as the studio painted it. I could do the same technique for the panels and use a color called Oregano, which is a nice compliment shade and tone, but that's a lot of masking! Doing rubs seems to go faster. Plus if I don't like it I should be able to use a damp cloth and wipe it off.

I'll post some pictures when I get the right color and shade for the rubs I am trying.

I am practicing on a kit bash I am working on... this is it with a base coat of Titanium.

View attachment 1001345
View attachment 1001346
Since you have a metallic base coat, you could mist over with a green color on the panels you want to have that color. Just start out extremely light and slowly layer the green until you get the look you want. You may want to thin the paint more than you normally would to make it layer even thinner giving you more control over the coverage.
 

ALLEY

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I prefer true “powders” for basic weathering, such as those made by “PanPastel” vs. the Tamiya kits. The “PanPastels” go on lightly and can be varied in their strength through the layering process. The Tamiyas are laid on in a way that most closely resembles women’s make-up kits and tends to be a bit thicker and less subtle looking. I use them both, but the Tamiyas seem to be more suitable for “streaking” effects and acute battle damage, in my experience, than subtle weathering on a larger scale.

0BFFB17E-0923-42F3-9C92-4FC62FFC1D95.jpeg


Here is a model that is weathered entirely with various “PanPastels”:

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korben44

Sr Member
I prefer true “powders” for basic weathering, such as those made by “PanPastel” vs. the Tamiya kits. The “PanPastels” go on lightly and can be varied in their strength through the layering process. The Tamiyas are laid on in a way that most closely resembles women’s make-up kits and tends to be a bit thicker and less subtle looking. I use them both, but the Tamiyas seem to be more suitable for “streaking” effects and acute battle damage, in my experience, than subtle weathering on a larger scale.

View attachment 1001840

Here is a model that is weathered entirely with various “PanPastels”:

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Those are very nice, indeed. I only use the Tamiya's since that's what I found at some local hobby stores and given as gifts... I will definitely be picking some of those up, though. You learn new things every day!
 

whb64

Active Member
That looks great Alley.

How hard are these to apply? I'm assuming like other powder rubs it's just a slow apply, rub in, and build up process correct? The pastels I'm playing around with are pretty easy to wipe off with a damp cloth if I don't like the look. Is it the same with PanPastels?
 

whb64

Active Member
Those are very nice, indeed. I only use the Tamiya's since that's what I found at some local hobby stores and given as gifts... I will definitely be picking some of those up, though. You learn new things every day!
I have some of the Tamiya sets too, and like mentioned they remind me of 'eye makeup'. I've seen guys use eye shadow for their builds, but I never found any locally that were matte, all were shinny or glittery and that's not the right look I want/need.
 

Analyzer

Sr Member
I prefer true “powders” for basic weathering, such as those made by “PanPastel” vs. the Tamiya kits. The “PanPastels” go on lightly and can be varied in their strength through the layering process. The Tamiyas are laid on in a way that most closely resembles women’s make-up kits and tends to be a bit thicker and less subtle looking. I use them both, but the Tamiyas seem to be more suitable for “streaking” effects and acute battle damage, in my experience, than subtle weathering on a larger scale.

Here is a model that is weathered entirely with various “PanPastels”:
Looks great

I have been wanting to try those. I've read several articles in Model Railroader where they use PanPastels for weathering.

I'm not sure if they have any metallic colors. That's where the Tamiya set shines for me. Their gun metal over a black base really gives a nice metallic look

I've used Vallejo powdered pigments but they don't seem to stick
 

ALLEY

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
That looks great Alley.

How hard are these to apply? I'm assuming like other powder rubs it's just a slow apply, rub in, and build up process correct? The pastels I'm playing around with are pretty easy to wipe off with a damp cloth if I don't like the look. Is it the same with PanPastels?
I use old paint brushes and sponges to apply the powders. Once I achieve the look I want, I hit it with light sprays of flat clear coat to set the power. A dry, or damp, cloth will remove the powder, prior to clear coating, if you want to start over. It’s pretty easy stuff to work with.
 
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