Proposed UK model filming day, Sheffield, summer

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LRL

Member
I am a pro film maker with a track record of putting on events on a shoestring. I live in Sheffield, and I'm after some expressions of interest. Some of you may be pure model makers but I suspect most of you are wannabe Gerry Andersons.

How about an open model filming day where we have the 1999 moon being blown out of orbit, then have a ragtag fleet of ships evacuating the earth, the odd space battle, and finally finding a new home planet.

The majority of models would just have to float serenely through space, we could have a couple rigged to explode and the 3d computer model guys could join in too. Make a short 3 minute trailer featuring as many models as possible.

Sheffield is bang in the middle of the country, I can blag a blacked out studio which is next door to an exhibition space, so we could have a model exhibition while people were waiting to appear on camera. We could have a live camera feed into the exhibition space so people could see what was going on.

Get enough people and the cost would be tens of pounds each. This would be a non profit joint venture, so I'd expect people to pull their weight and sort problems out for themselves. Costs would be hire of the exhibition space, tracking and jib equipment, catering and promotion. I bet we could get all that for a grand. Sound like fun?
 

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Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I am a pro film maker with a track record of putting on events on a shoestring. I live in Sheffield, and I'm after some expressions of interest. Some of you may be pure model makers but I suspect most of you are wannabe Gerry Andersons.

How about an open model filming day where we have the 1999 moon being blown out of orbit, then have a ragtag fleet of ships evacuating the earth, the odd space battle, and finally finding a new home planet.

The majority of models would just have to float serenely through space, we could have a couple rigged to explode and the 3d computer model guys could join in too. Make a short 3 minute trailer featuring as many models as possible.

Sheffield is bang in the middle of the country, I can blag a blacked out studio which is next door to an exhibition space, so we could have a model exhibition while people were waiting to appear on camera. We could have a live camera feed into the exhibition space so people could see what was going on.

Get enough people and the cost would be tens of pounds each. This would be a non profit joint venture, so I'd expect people to pull their weight and sort problems out for themselves. Costs would be hire of the exhibition space, tracking and jib equipment, catering and promotion. I bet we could get all that for a grand. Sound like fun?
Hey
While your plan sounds like a really cool idea it also sounds a bit to ambitious ........... im not trying to dampen your high spirits just being realistic.
Many of the members here spend Hundreds of Pounds/dollors on buying in the Parts or even making the parts to build their Screen Accurate models, so the thought of having some of them blown up is a bit off putting.
While you initial idea is very ambitious it does has some potential and the finer points of your idea could be worked on and made to work.

il try to elaborate for you.....

Last November we held the UKs First Replica Prop Party in Birmingham, one of the main key features of that Prop Party was all members were able to attend for Free and display their Models.
Your idea could be used by setting up some kind of Green Screen and filming some of models flying across the screen and then played back to the General Public with all the usual Add on's and relevant green screen editing.
We had a SPFX Make Up Work Shop, and the Model Section guys gave out some really good advice on Building etc etc so there is no reason why we could'nt have a Green Screen Filming Workshop at the next UK Prop Party, we have the space and the talent.

Keeping it very simple usually works best and as mentioned your initial idea has substance, im sure others will chime in with their thoughts but go and have another think about your idea and how best to simlify it at minimal cost.
 

LRL

Member
Firstly I did indeed imply that we would be blowing up your models, and I can see how this would deter any modeller. I meant that we would build models intended for that very purpose.
As for the green screen, I was hoping to be lower tech than even that. We'll do what Gerry did, make a lit starfield (leds on magnets with the current going through the magnetic paint on a dimmer, or a backlit board with holes in it) then shoot models in a blacked out studio, in front of the starfield, with single point lighting, probably moving the camera rather than the model.

There would be a greenscreen rigged, but I envision this would be used for people to bring costumes and be included in dioramas or model interiors.

And no I can't subsidise you all, but neither am I asking to be subsidised, I am donating time, other crewmembers time (which I will have to pay back in kind) and equipment, which is just as valuable as your models. What are those models for if you can't fly them at least once?
 

LRL

Member
Whoa, I missed the tagline "UK RPF Event co-ordinator". Simon, how can I get you onboard?
 

Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Whoa, I missed the tagline "UK RPF Event co-ordinator". Simon, how can I get you onboard?
well i did hint in my last post about the UK PROP PARTY we just had, and as i said if you can simlify the idea i think it would be great to rig up some kind of mini filming studio and replicate how the Movie makers made things appear to fly and really draw the crowds in.

keep the thread alive and keep coming with the ideas
 

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LRL

Member
Hmm, I really don't think a mini studio is the way to go, tagging onto an existing event is a good idea, but we'd need a fair bit of space, and I can't blag a free studio in Brum, or crew. Once we start paying for that lot it starts to become unfeasable.

These models are big, and we need space all around them. We could do it with smaller models, but that just seems.......unambitious and unremarkable.

I don't really get it, I'm detecting very little enthusiasm for what I would have thought would be a dream scenario, cmon throw me a bone here!
 

Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Have you heard of the NEC ?? the memorabilia Event ?? you let me know what you space you need and il sort it ......

Going by your initial Post and trying to simplify things, i think the idea of setting up a mini filming studio something like the picture below but on a much smaller scale



Ive thrown you a bone mate so if you want to generate interest and have my help you need to work more on your idea, which ive also mentioned.
 

LRL

Member
Didn't mean you Simon, you've actually tried to be helpful, I meant the many who have read this thread without commenting, you didn't notice me turn to face the audience? I have attended Memorabilia in Brum, tell me more about the RPF presence there. I'd be happy to do a taster to build contacts and trust. But (turning to the audience here Simon) someone has to bring a model, throw yer hat in the ring, step up, speak up, do we have any takers???................oh look, tumbleweed.
 

Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Didn't mean you Simon, you've actually tried to be helpful, I meant the many who have read this thread without commenting, you didn't notice me turn to face the audience? I have attended Memorabilia in Brum, tell me more about the RPF presence there. I'd be happy to do a taster to build contacts and trust. But (turning to the audience here Simon) someone has to bring a model, throw yer hat in the ring, step up, speak up, do we have any takers???................oh look, tumbleweed.
Well i have to be honest with you mate, posts like these are not going to gain you any favours ....... remember the movie " Field of Dreams "

Build it and they will come, meaning if its just you and i that get the wheels in motion and sort something constructive and doable out then others will soon join in, if it doesnt happen then the project gets shelved for the next time.

Dont take it so personal, once you have something to show the members they will show enthusiasm ....... trust me :)
 

jedimaster

Sr Member
You wanna get folks involved. Set it up to film it the way ILM filmed it. That's what we do here. Replicate what ILM did. Also maybe show your rig and explain how you want to use it and the models. So far it comes off as bring your models for me to film , oh and bring some we can blow up. Do you have any experience with pyrotechnics? Do you know how to rig a model to explode? Do you know that most models have a large chunk of resin in them and are not like the pyro models which were built of lighter weight material just for explosions? You really need to start looking at the way miniatures were filmed back then and work out the shoot, storyboard etc before folks around here are gonna offer up their models even for a simple shot such as a pass by.
 

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LRL

Member
Fair comment Jedimaster, I intend to shoot with a DSLR as the tiny camera with changeable lenses makes sense to me, so replicating a system involving what was at the time a necessarily massive camera seems more like a reenactment than a shoot. I'm hoping to use some old techniques, capturing the whole image in camera instead of comping it. This sort of technique suffered from generation loss, but could be viable in the digital age.

I was thinking of using back projection, with a huge digital projector (yes I can access such a beast) We shoot layer after layer of passes synching the moving background to the new shot. This purely optical approach wil give fast results and event friendly immediate gratification. We then switch the screen to blue, green or whatever primary colour is not on the model, and get the shots for comping later. A motorised rig is too specialised for me to get, and not very portable. I was going to make do with track and jib, and maybe an endosopic lens for ultra close stuff. Because we have no control over how the models can be mounted, it is difficult to plan for animating the model.

Storyboard, has to be done on the day when we know what we've got to play with. Could be done a bit before if we get promises, but certainly not before anyone gets on board.

As for pyrotehnics, nope not prepared to tackle that myself, but surely we have a member who can.

And that's the whole point, it's a collaborative process and if people have something to bring to tha table then I welcome it. Expressions of interest and offers to help are what I'm after before we get into the nitty gritty.

But you clearly have a rig and experience, I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance, can you help?
 

jedimaster

Sr Member
Mate i was born and raised a bit in sheffield. Spent a lot of time at both Hallam and Sheffield universities in the late nineties. But Now live in Oz so i can only help with ideas.
DSLR is a good choice and there is some fantastic results done post too with the right software which i'm sure you already have experience with. your gonna need a few extra c-stands for mounting these models. make sure they all have the 1/4 inch thread , ie camera mount as that is the common mount for these models. The other SIMON - Supa Troop is your man on pulling this together. As for any Pyro work i would say that would be done in after effects. Get plenty of shots of the whole model against a blue/green screen and give it to the CG DUDES to add the explosions and models breaking up etc.

To do any kind of real pyro work requires not only licenced proffessionals but a closed set. Its not quite as simple as jamming a roman candle up its arse and run like ****. Also know your camera speeds at which to shoot these miniature effects. And these models need to be lit differently to say your average set. Look i'm sure you know all this already so i don't want to sound like a ******.Ive seen some great shots done in a living room , with a sheet of MDF painted green and a couple of wires and a $500 camcorder so it can be done. done properly it could be good.

simon.
 

Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Mate i was born and raised a bit in sheffield. Spent a lot of time at both Hallam and Sheffield universities in the late nineties. But Now live in Oz so i can only help with ideas.
DSLR is a good choice and there is some fantastic results done post too with the right software which i'm sure you already have experience with. your gonna need a few extra c-stands for mounting these models. make sure they all have the 1/4 inch thread , ie camera mount as that is the common mount for these models. The other SIMON - Supa Troop is your man on pulling this together. As for any Pyro work i would say that would be done in after effects. Get plenty of shots of the whole model against a blue/green screen and give it to the CG DUDES to add the explosions and models breaking up etc.

To do any kind of real pyro work requires not only licenced proffessionals but a closed set. Its not quite as simple as jamming a roman candle up its arse and run like ****. Also know your camera speeds at which to shoot these miniature effects. And these models need to be lit differently to say your average set. Look i'm sure you know all this already so i don't want to sound like a ******.Ive seen some great shots done in a living room , with a sheet of MDF painted green and a couple of wires and a $500 camcorder so it can be done. done properly it could be good.

simon.
Great Post Si and thanks for the vote of confidence.

As i said i can provide you space and will try to help with other props for this ie rods and green screen, the models, well thats down to the talented guys here in this part of the forum and wether or not they are willing to put their own effort into this.
Im really interested in making this work as a work shop for our big Prop Party event later this year, i think it will add something extra and unique to what was a great event already.

The technical camera and SPFX stuff is something you will have to work out.
I suggest a list of your needs and from that list we can then decide if this project is actually doable.

Actually the more i think about this, Simon picked up on the idea of setting up a mini ILM style work shop and i honestly belive this is the way to go, if not for the purpose you require then definately as a static display.
 
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LRL

Member
Two really helpful posts, thankyou guys.
You still haven't said much about the Brum event, is it the one at the end of April? Give me some more information about the sort of things you're taking, and I'm sure there is a limit to the space I can have, are we talking a tabletop or a 10m x 10m bit of floorspace? Also important is the sort of sized model we're taking, just give me some idea and I'll cut my cloth accordingly.
 

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Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Two really helpful posts, thankyou guys.
You still haven't said much about the Brum event, is it the one at the end of April? Give me some more information about the sort of things you're taking, and I'm sure there is a limit to the space I can have, are we talking a tabletop or a 10m x 10m bit of floorspace? Also important is the sort of sized model we're taking, just give me some idea and I'll cut my cloth accordingly.

Have a quick shifty through this Thread mate, ive strated the link at the relevent page for you.

This is your call you tell me what you need and as i have said we can then see what i can help with

http://www.therpf.com/f9/uk-prop-party-confirmed-19th-20th-november-110797/index10.html
 

LRL

Member
We have our first taker from the Eagle Tranporter forum, the Liberator leads the fleet. Cmon RPF I'm only after expressions of interest.
 

Supa troop

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
We have our first taker from the Eagle Tranporter forum, the Liberator leads the fleet. Cmon RPF I'm only after expressions of interest.
Ok hold on a second, are you advertising your idea on other modelling forums ??

If thats the case then we can not have Non-RPF related Groups tagging onto RPF events.
so with this in mind il pull out my interest in this as of now..... sorry
 

LRL

Member
Ok, looks like a few small models, and enough space for maybe 3 tables as it all looks fairly crowded. The interactive element is for the public rather than our members. Right, in order to prove I'm a can do sorta guy I propose....

A table top flying rig (I will not be explaining this, but will shoot a demo and post the video) offering to fly any model people bring us. Since memorabelia is basically a huge sci fi shop, we should have plenty of spaceships to deal with. We will assemble a fleet to defend the planet. We have a pre prepared video of an alien invasion fleet approaching the earth, then a shot of the alien leader looking at his scanner, (any volunteers?) We see the endless parade of ships shot over the weekend, then back to the invader who flees in a hail of laserish fire. Victory to Earth, bless us all every one. Be nice if we could run a model making workshop too.

Waddaya think?
 

LRL

Member
"we can not have Non-RPF related Groups tagging onto RPF events"
1. Why not, all modellers together.
2. Since when is it an RPF event? RPF members are very welcome but are not exclusive.
3. Brum is your show, still happy to help out, but it doesn't replace the event I'm proposing.
4. Do you really think that sort of attitude is appropriate in an open forum intended to help fellow builders and enthusiasts.
5. Not just a little embarrassed.....
6. Just a little?
7. Why not read the thread before you decide?
Proposed model filming day, summer, Sheffield - Space 1999 Eagle Transporter Forum
 

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