Prop-Making as fulltime job / Getting licences from Studios

[DNP]

(when you are here because of the licenses part, skip to it)

Fulltime Job Part:
Hey folks,

Since I discovered Prop making, my skills and knowledge grows very fast.
(and is still growing, I think it will NEVER stops to grow)
And since over 6 Months I think about doing Prop making as a fulltime job
like Volpin do.
I dont want to become self employed immediately,
I want to do it in 3 years (2016).

Because 2016 I will be finished with school and my education.
I think 3 years of freetime while doing my education are enough
to increase my Prop-Making skills and prominence in germany a lot
and to be able to call myself "professional".

Most of you might say "do a proper job"
Actually I´m a smart person, very good at school and could become
a doctor, lawyer or do another "good job"...
Personally I think these "good" jobs are s****
But to create things out of nothing is absolutely awesome!!!
With that said: Prop-Making is my DREAM-JOB!!!

I noticed it while my school holidays, I woke up every day without an alarm clock
and was able to work on my props the WHOLE day.
This was the most perfect time in my life!
From then I was 100% sure about this is my dream job
and that I don´t want to do something else.

I know that I need to have prominence to get comissions and customers,
I already have some plans to get a big fanbase.
I have 3 years to generate my fanbase/prominence in germany.
As well I have no national competitors in making Props.
Because THERE is not a single person, who do professional game/film props
in germany. If there were someone I would knew about him/her.
Sure there other germans who make props (most of them are on the rpf)
some of them have good skills already, but there is no one who is professional
so far, including me.
I describe myself as a one of the good noobs.

With that said: I will have no competitors in WHOLE germany (so far), exept the international professionals.

I think ALL of you will say: "you won't get rich through this"

I don´t want to get rich with it, i want to get happy :rolleyes

What do you think of it?
Is there anyone who can report from his own experience?
Someone who do this already or anyone who have the same plans like me?



Get licenses part:

Imagine I´m already a professional self employed prop maker,
I have a much promininence in german game magazines and so on,
I have a large fan base, enough comissions for living from it and a workshop with all tools, machines and materials I need.
With that said: All what I planned to reach from now on in 3 years.

But I can´t just choose something from a film or a game and make 100 of it,
sell it and profit.
I NEED LICENCES from the Studios wich own the copyright.

First of all is there any chance for me to get a licence e.g. from VALVe, Marvel or any others.
For example: can I built something in very high and good quality from
a VALVe game, send it to them and saying:

"Here is a gift for you wich i made myself, what do you think of it?
Can I get your permission/licence for making 100(or infinite) of them and sell it?
You get 20% of the profit of each selled."

Is that possible? Is here anyone who have or had a licence from a Studio to sell something officially?
NECA have very much licences and sells thousands of props,
even though (personally for me) some of their props are s****,
because there isn´t enough handwork and not enough love for details and perfection in their products, too.

Personally I hate NECA because:

(only southpark fans will know)



Thanks for your answers!


EDIT:

Here is something I´m working on, to give you an idea of my actual skills.

 

[Apollo]

There are a few here that can give you some advice concerning being a Licensee.

Just sending a prop will not do you have to have a business model and market research nowadays

Remember the Studios and their, as well as your Lawyer will always make their Money first.

Just read the first part of your post, Become a Lawyer trust me it will be worth it in the end.

Being a "Pro" propmaker is hard way to make a living as some that are on here will attest to

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Can't tell you about being a lincensee but I can tell you that I knew I wanted to work in film/TV since I was about 10 years old. Through hard work and a LOT of luck I made it but I've seen many people broken by that same dream along the way.

The only advice I can give you is to go for it. Be the best at what you do and there will be a job for you.

This isn't an industry for the half hearted. You'll be doing a lot of work out of pocket just to try and build a name for yourself and then if you're lucky you'll get some kind of apprenticeship. It'll take years. Likely much more than three.

Good luck to you. :thumbsup

 

[The Prop Stop]

From an outsider looking in view (im far more into original props than replicas) my advice is stay away from licensing. Nearly every single company that did it until recently has failed and folded and those that didn't seem to be on the merry go round of "this will be out one day, probably after nobody cares" and thus holding up the licence.

Its all a little underwhelming...unless your Sideshow who from what I can tell actually make it happen.

Theres alot of talent here though perhaps it will chip in. Lots of people crushed by the machine too...those are the great stories!

 

[replicaprops]

Don't do it

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

Hey man,

first, kudos for your fervor. But working in the field of production design (you know, those people who come up with props and sets ) I can tell you that you are definitely not alone when it comes to creating props. There are actually really a lot of professionals over here in Germany who can create props. Static props, working props, paper props, prop vehicles, all kinds of props. I have several friends who design props for a living (it´s often part of the day-to-day business of a production designer or art director over here in Germany).

But I guess you just did not think of searching with the German terms for props, right? Try e.g. Requisitenbau.com - Hannes Koch Palisadenstr. 89 12043 Berlin , Prop-Art Professioneller Requisitenbauer - Hamburg - Requisitenbauer, Bildhauer, Setdekorateur: Home (located in Hamburg), just a few of the professional prop makers over here in Germany. Try crew united | Das Netzwerk der Film- und Fernsehbranche , THE website for movie business connections over here in Germany, with a huge database on all things movie related. Try the website of the Verband der Requisiteure und Set Decorator in Germany, Der VdRSD e. V..
The movie business over here is getting rougher, it is getting harder to land a job. Most of the productions are not a prop makers dream, because genre productions are very rare.

But maybe you just want to build prop replicas, and not original props? That is indeed something different. It requires a very similar skill set without the need for artistic creativity, since coming up with an original design is without a doubt a different thing than simply copying something that already exists.

There are a few people who dabble in that area, but all on a more or less hobby level. I do know of one outfit that does it on a larger scale, but with "kind of shady" connections.

There indeed is no company that I know of that does prop replicating (!) on a professional level, but then again there are not many companies who work in the movie or games industry on an international level and who´s franchise has a large enough fanbase to provide income for a prop maker based on that franchise.
Prop replicating is of no interest to professional prop makers. The hourly rates are too high to make it a feasible business. The hourly rates are from around 35 to 55 Euros plus VAT, so if you work on a prop for, say 50 hours ... well, you can do the math. And that´s plus materials. You still have to pay rent, social and medical insurance, a car, materials etc. You also have to reckon with non-paying customers or quite a long time between your invoice and the arrival of the payment.

You can of course make it in all areas of life if you have enough energy and the will to succeed, but let me tell you that you probably should first look into finding an internship at a professional prop and set building company (I can give you a few recommendations, just send me a pm) before actually choosing that career path.
Lots of things to consider, expecially if you at one point in the future want to go all self-employed.

We actually had a guy from Spain here on the forum, I think last year or two years ago, who had exactly (!!!) the same plan you have, and who even had set up his own studio and was posting on a regular basis about updates. He was making IM helmets and various other stuff, but it looks like he disappeared. I unfortunately do not remember his username, but maybe someone else does.

Regarding the licensing part. As a child of the eighties I grew up with "Merchandising München", who firmly held the merchandising market in a tight grip. And they still do. If you find a brand or franchise that seems to be of interest to you it is very likely that you will have to deal with them. A friend of mine tried to license "The little Prince" for a series of children´s furniture. Total and utter disaster. The demands were so complicated, on the brink of being ridicudlous, that the just chucked the whole project. Upfront payments, endless product presentations, tight contracts. You may want to put a few Euros aside for a lawyer, starting right now

I suggest that you study product design, learning actual artistic skills, various techniques, then go look for work at a company that needs someone to build their prototpyes and then after a few years you can try and become self-employed. But be prepared to eat lots of rice and ketchup or ramen noodles in the next few years.

Good luck with your endeavor!

 

[DNP]

Don't do it

And why?

 

[replicaprops]

And why?

1. loss of creative control
2. minimum royalty guarantee up front and every quarter regardless if you sell anything
3. Requirement to carry millions in insurance
4. meeting manufacturing standards for health and safety for every country you sell to
5. zero cooperation in marketing

There is more but I think this sums it up

 

[Eaglewood]

Do not send your work to the studios!!! There is no quicker way to get a C& D letter and give them the proof they need to stop you.
Inquire thru the proper channels but be prepared to spend $$$$ to get licensed.
I asked Marvel about Thor hammers and the number they gave me was $500K

Good Luck

 

[Funky]

There are professional prop builders on the RPF that have worked on several big budget pictures. Take it from them. It's a thankless, high stress job that pays very little.

 

[deadbolt]

Very cool to see some replica Spiritual Stones! Nice work. :thumbsup


-Carson

 

[NormanF]

I suggest that you study product design, learning actual artistic skills, various techniques, then go look for work at a company that needs someone to build their prototpyes and then after a few years you can try and become self-employed. But be prepared to eat lots of rice and ketchup or ramen noodles in the next few years.

Good luck with your endeavor!

Or one of the companies Daddy listed earlier. While you are there try to learn the business side: dealing with suppliers, shippers, lawyers, payroll.

You might like working for that company and you can make props after work and on weekends.

We just think it will be harder than you think.

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch

 

[KramStaar]

Some useful comments here and generally what folk have said is correct.

I've worked in the movie industry for over 30 years and aside from the points raised about low pay, loosing your individualism etc. etc. its advisable NOT to send your work as unsolicited craft to any studio. Almost all of them have a very strict policy of not accepting items that they have not commissioned because of the danger of litigation further down the line (even things as simple as rough drawings, written ideas and more). More often than not, what you send will either be destroyed or sent back before it gets through the door. If your item IS fortunate to somehow squeeze its way through the barriers then as has been mentioned before, its likely to result in a C&D, so as someone said, please ensure that you work through the proper channels.

Regarding licensing fees, this is an especially costly business so be prepared (if you're successful in your negotiations) to fork out many $100K for a single license. You will also find that your license would in all likelihood be limited to sales in the USA so, if you want to sell abroad then you will contractually be prevented from doing so.

Licensee companies can pay as much as $15M per annum to retain their license and that's excluding the cost of tooling, creating, staffing and merchandising the items and this is why licensees tend to protect their place as vigorously as they do..

Best of luck

MARK

 

[DNP]

I can imagine what a C&D letter means, but what is it exactly?
Do they just force me to stop doing something or do they force me to stop with ALL of I´m doing?
Can someone show me an original C&D letter you or other people get?

So now you made me very insecure about my plans.
I think I will do an education as retail merchant or something else
to get my 2k per month and be secured.
I will keep doing it in my freetime then, but professional and in a good workshop.

How many problems I can get when I take comissions?
Can I get a C&D for only replicating 1 prop?
And is there a difference in copyright when I´m selling a Replica
or a cast?
I mean a Replica is exactly the thing from the game, but a cast
is just plastic with lines, shapes and holes.
So is there any difference between sellings casts and finished replicas?
Can I make unlimited casts?

 

[Luke0312]

I can imagine what a C&D letter means, but what is it exactly?
Do they just force me to spot doing something or do they force me to spot with ALL of I´m doing?
Can someone show me an original C&D letter you or other people get?

So now you made me very insecure about my plans.
I think I will do an education as retail merchant or something else
to get my 2k per month and be secured.
I will keep doing it in my freetime then, but professional and in a good workshop.

How many problems I can get when I take comissions?
Can I get a C&D for only replicating 1 prop?
And is there a difference in copyright when I´m selling a Replica
or a cast?
I mean a Replica is exactly the thing from the game, but a cast
is just plastic with lines, shapes and holes.
So is there any difference between sellings casts and finished replicas?
Can I make unlimited casts?

Cease and desist. Just telling you not to make anything else that infringes on their copyright. They aren't concerned if you're infringing on the copyright of another company. It's the first step/action they will take and it is strongly advisable to listen and stop if you get one.

You can get one for a single item, yes. It often happens when you're producing an item that is being offered by a company who is licensed by the studio. Why? Because they are paying for that licensee, you're not, and so that puts them at a severe financial disadvantage and you're affecting their sales.

Call it a replica, cast, or whatever, doesn't matter. If you're producing a copyrighted item, you run the risk.

Your eagerness is admirable, but your questions show your lack of fully understanding it.

Keep it as a hobby and enjoy it.

 

[Shylaah]

A Cease and Desist letter usually comes from the lawyer of the copyright holder telling you to stop what you are doing (such as replicating their intellectual property), and gives you the opportunity to stop infringing and go on your merry way.

If you ignore the letter and continue in the activity the copyright owner has ask you to stop, then they will likely file a lawsuit and drag you into court and the court will make you stop and perhaps punish you.

If you do not hold the copyright for something or have been licensed by the copyright owner, you cannot legally make, cast, replicate or in any way profit from that copyrighted item.

Do what you have to do to make a living, save what you love to do for yourself : ))

 

[racprops]

Here is my take on it.

What drove my career in Hollywood: My electronics, I got into propmaking thanks to being able to make things light up and do things.

There were hundreds of good model makers but few whom could do the light effects, so I got work over many others. When I almost got to work on Star Trek the Next Gen, I was asked if I could join the propmakers union, so I called and I was told “NO, there were already 10,000 out of work card carrying members and they were not taking any new members.”

Even then (the 80s) I still only got pro work for about 1/4 of the year, (two to four months a year) the rest of the time I was selling models to the fans at cons. And the cons were a lot more a big deal back then. (PS I also got much lower prices for models at cons…fans are poor…)

Now they can CGI in the props and no longer need me.

I used to do talks at cons and one was called “Mothers, don’t let your children grow up to be propmakers!” I mean it.

Prop makers rarely get any credit, and rarely get any real pay.

IF you have to work in film, look into special effects MAKEUP.

Richard Coyle AKA racprops racprops.com

 

[Alan Castillo]

For all the reasons as stated by many, it is not worth the hassle, problems and grief, to even try to do this profession full time.

I think I will do an education as retail merchant or something else
to get my 2k per month and be secured.
I will keep doing it in my freetime then, but professional and in a good workshop.

That's the spirit.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

For all the reasons as stated by many, it is not worth the hassle, problems and grief, to even try to do this profession full time.



That's the spirit.

Don´t believe anything this guy says. He´s making a living as professional barkeeper, specializing in lunch time margaritas and heard about props just yesterday, still thinking that they are aircraft or boat parts ...

And RACprops´ real name may be Rich, but that´s all the riches he ever got out of the business. A little fame, yes, but that´s it.

 

[Roland]

I can imagine what a C&D letter means, but what is it exactly?...

Abmahnung ? Wikipedia