newworld
Sr Member
So I was checking out the Star Trek stuff in the Hollywood catalog that just got posted and my BS meter went off something fierce! Like any TOS Trek collector, I just about died when I saw the "Kirk" tunic. What a beauty! What an amazing piece! Amazing, that is, until I read the description. There are no tags and no specific provenance is given. Those are the first red flags. But in addition, here's what the description DOES say:
a) tunic fabric is a match to actual examples of Star Trek: The Original Series gold velour
Great -- that doesn't make it a Shatner Kirk. There were a lot of gold tunics made for TOS. And every Kirk stuntman has one like Shatner's.
b ) screen matched sewing lines attaching the insignia patch to the tunic
No idea what that means, but if they can screen match this piece TO SHATNER, they better show the photo to prove it. Below is a photo match example that I made of my Scotty maroon uniform to a PR photo of James Doohan. Notice that the details are clear and easy to see. It's a perfect match (except the color which is just about lighting). It Profiles can show a photo that is this conclusive -- ie: clear and unambiguuous and can show the fabric's weave and seam detail, then I'm a believer. But without this clarity and specificity, it's just a guess, however educated.
Here's a shot of my Scotty maroon comparison. If Profiles can't offer something this specific, they should not make the claim, IMO.
And speaking of guesses, one of the "experts" they cite is Mr. Gurian. While I know of Mr. Gurian's expertise regarding TOS, he himself is in possession (or was) of TOS props which he claimed were absolutely genuine. Unfortunately for him, it was shown on various forums that his claims were apparently incorrect. In short, he had been duped, according to other experts, and his pieces were replicas, not genuine. So while Mr. Gurian might truly believe that the shirt is a Shatner, I have little faith in his expertise, given his history.
c) screen match on sewing thread construction technique
Ditto
d) match on unique brand made of Japanese-made zipper hardware
Great -- but again, that doesn't make it a Shatner Kirk. Every tunic made had that zipper.
e) Match on overall tunic size to Shatner including double gussets on tunic sides (unique feature to Shatner tunics)
The gusset pronouncement is simply not knowable. Was someone able to inventory every gold command shirt ever made and verify this? Of course not. The only person that could make that statement was William Ware Theiss, Trek's great costume designer, and he's been gone for 20 years. I know of Mr's Cawley's expertise -- I've actually bought stuff from him. But a conversation he might have had with Theiss more than 20 years ago is not proof. And Shatner's stuntmen were similar in size to him. They had to be.
The Season 1 and 2 shirts shrank over time which is why they sometimes appear to be short and skimpy. To compensate, gussets (additional cloth panels) were added to the sides as needed. Below is a side shot of stuntman Paul Baxley from Tribbles. Not a great shot (I don't have it on Blu-Ray yet) but you can clearly see the gusset and I think there are 3 seams -- which means a double gusset. Did Baxley reuse Shatner shirts? Probably. In every case? Not knowable.
Here's the shot of Baxley showing the gusset(s):
f) match of the early style of braid
The patch and braid may be original to the production, but they could have been added to this shirt at any time over the past 43 years since Trek stopped production. Unless there's specific fading that demonstrates that braid has been in place since 1966, this is not conclusive in any way. Plus, every Stunt Kirk has them.
So here's my conclusions:
Given the evidence, I have no reason to think that this is not a true Star Trek TOS Season1/2 shirt.
Given the evdence, I have no reason to think with 100% CERTAINTY that it is a Shatner Kirk. Keep in mind that every stunt double who stood in for Shatner wore one of these.
Is it possible that it is a Kirk? Absolutely. Is it likely? That I don't know. Would you bet your life on it? I sure wouldn't. And the auction listing does not say "believed to be" or "could possibly be". It says IT IS SHATNER'S.
Grand claims require grand proof. There is no Shatner tag or ANY tag identifying the wearer. There's been no specific photo proof offered to match it to Shatner. Therefore, without that concrete , ABSOLUTE proof, I submit that calling this a Shatner is irresponsible.
I don't have a horse in this race. As a collector, I think it would be incredibly cool if this WERE a Shatner. Stuff from that era is precious to collectors like me, whoever the owner is. But as a collector who values full disclosure and integrity above all else, I find their claim specious.
Look it over and decide for yourself. But keep in mind that Profiles is the one that once put a set piece of the Statue Of Liberty from "The Terminal" on their catalog cover and called it the original Statue Of Liberty from "Planet of the Apes". It was pathetically inaccurate. For EIGHTY GRAND I think their proof should be absolute, not circumstantial.
a) tunic fabric is a match to actual examples of Star Trek: The Original Series gold velour
Great -- that doesn't make it a Shatner Kirk. There were a lot of gold tunics made for TOS. And every Kirk stuntman has one like Shatner's.
b ) screen matched sewing lines attaching the insignia patch to the tunic
No idea what that means, but if they can screen match this piece TO SHATNER, they better show the photo to prove it. Below is a photo match example that I made of my Scotty maroon uniform to a PR photo of James Doohan. Notice that the details are clear and easy to see. It's a perfect match (except the color which is just about lighting). It Profiles can show a photo that is this conclusive -- ie: clear and unambiguuous and can show the fabric's weave and seam detail, then I'm a believer. But without this clarity and specificity, it's just a guess, however educated.
Here's a shot of my Scotty maroon comparison. If Profiles can't offer something this specific, they should not make the claim, IMO.
And speaking of guesses, one of the "experts" they cite is Mr. Gurian. While I know of Mr. Gurian's expertise regarding TOS, he himself is in possession (or was) of TOS props which he claimed were absolutely genuine. Unfortunately for him, it was shown on various forums that his claims were apparently incorrect. In short, he had been duped, according to other experts, and his pieces were replicas, not genuine. So while Mr. Gurian might truly believe that the shirt is a Shatner, I have little faith in his expertise, given his history.
c) screen match on sewing thread construction technique
Ditto
d) match on unique brand made of Japanese-made zipper hardware
Great -- but again, that doesn't make it a Shatner Kirk. Every tunic made had that zipper.
e) Match on overall tunic size to Shatner including double gussets on tunic sides (unique feature to Shatner tunics)
The gusset pronouncement is simply not knowable. Was someone able to inventory every gold command shirt ever made and verify this? Of course not. The only person that could make that statement was William Ware Theiss, Trek's great costume designer, and he's been gone for 20 years. I know of Mr's Cawley's expertise -- I've actually bought stuff from him. But a conversation he might have had with Theiss more than 20 years ago is not proof. And Shatner's stuntmen were similar in size to him. They had to be.
The Season 1 and 2 shirts shrank over time which is why they sometimes appear to be short and skimpy. To compensate, gussets (additional cloth panels) were added to the sides as needed. Below is a side shot of stuntman Paul Baxley from Tribbles. Not a great shot (I don't have it on Blu-Ray yet) but you can clearly see the gusset and I think there are 3 seams -- which means a double gusset. Did Baxley reuse Shatner shirts? Probably. In every case? Not knowable.
Here's the shot of Baxley showing the gusset(s):
f) match of the early style of braid
The patch and braid may be original to the production, but they could have been added to this shirt at any time over the past 43 years since Trek stopped production. Unless there's specific fading that demonstrates that braid has been in place since 1966, this is not conclusive in any way. Plus, every Stunt Kirk has them.
So here's my conclusions:
Given the evidence, I have no reason to think that this is not a true Star Trek TOS Season1/2 shirt.
Given the evdence, I have no reason to think with 100% CERTAINTY that it is a Shatner Kirk. Keep in mind that every stunt double who stood in for Shatner wore one of these.
Is it possible that it is a Kirk? Absolutely. Is it likely? That I don't know. Would you bet your life on it? I sure wouldn't. And the auction listing does not say "believed to be" or "could possibly be". It says IT IS SHATNER'S.
Grand claims require grand proof. There is no Shatner tag or ANY tag identifying the wearer. There's been no specific photo proof offered to match it to Shatner. Therefore, without that concrete , ABSOLUTE proof, I submit that calling this a Shatner is irresponsible.
I don't have a horse in this race. As a collector, I think it would be incredibly cool if this WERE a Shatner. Stuff from that era is precious to collectors like me, whoever the owner is. But as a collector who values full disclosure and integrity above all else, I find their claim specious.
Look it over and decide for yourself. But keep in mind that Profiles is the one that once put a set piece of the Statue Of Liberty from "The Terminal" on their catalog cover and called it the original Statue Of Liberty from "Planet of the Apes". It was pathetically inaccurate. For EIGHTY GRAND I think their proof should be absolute, not circumstantial.
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