Playstation 4: No backwards compatibility, used games locked out.

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by WarPig, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. WarPig

    WarPig Sr Member

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    From Gamespot:

    "...multiple sources told the blog that the Orbis will sport some sort of anti-used-game measure. Full Orbis games will be available via Blu-ray disc or as a PlayStation Network download and will be locked to a single PSN account. Players will not be able to circumvent the system by remaining offline, as the source said users will be forced to be connected to the PSN to boot up their games." :confused

    Not being backwards-compatible is nothing new - but if any of you guys are like me, by the time I get around to ordering/playing I can usually find a used one at a fraction of the release price.

    And they wonder why people resort to piracy? (n)angry
     
  2. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    yeah folks will be finding ways to pirate them the day they come out. I don't mind buying some stuff as a download like old games and such but this is getting stupid. What happens to people in rural areas that don't have good internet or any internet? They're assuming everyone has the net these days. Sony still hasn't realized the PS3 isn't as popular as they had hoped and this won't be any better.
     
  3. WarPig

    WarPig Sr Member

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    Truth be told, my PS3 is currently my Blu-Ray player. I haven't played an actual game in months :lol
     
  4. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Yeah that's about all i'd end up using it for too. Not that many games i want to play on it. the BR player was the main selling point but now i can get one for 40.00 on amazon. (a player not a ps3). heck i got a new ps2 off amazon for 100.00.
     
  5. WarPig

    WarPig Sr Member

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    Well, I have some cool PS3 games (Uncharted series, Dead Island, Dead Rising 2); just no time to play :(
     
  6. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Rumor mill had the new xbox doing the same thing. One use only discs, etc.

    It's pretty god damned stupid. I'm willing to bet that if it fails, the first excuse they will use is "oh, piracy killed it!", not the fact they are trying to screw their customers out of every penny they can.

    Chris
     
  7. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    I'm so tired of action rpgs and FPS games i doubt i'll care. heck most of what i'm using my wii for is older games anyhow. If i wanted games i had to download i'd play on the PC and we all know how easily those get copied and cracked. The game industry is headed for another crash like in the early 80s when crap games flooded the market. this time it's bad business practices. Small game makers will take over and hopefully give us quality.
     
  8. Nwerke

    Nwerke Master Member

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    They'll never stop trying this tired, DIVX-like schtick, will they? The miserable failure of DIVX should have taught them that people NEED to feel some level of ownership of their media.

    You don't have the right to photocopy and sell a novel, but nobody tries to tell you you don't own your * copy of it. Jeeze.
     
  9. WarPig

    WarPig Sr Member

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    QFT! :) :thumbsup
     
  10. EyeofSauron

    EyeofSauron Master Member

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    good for me, this way i can get the older ones for cheap, as people are stupid and will buy new crap just because its new

    over all its apretty stupid concept tho
     
  11. darkchylde80

    darkchylde80 Well-Known Member

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    I hate this concept, both are rumoured to be going this route. Personally when I pay cash for something I want it to be tangible! I've bought a few games through Steam, pained me every time.

    The fact that you very rarely get a better deal on the price for digital copies annoys me as well. I would be less annoyed if digital copies were cheaper, though I would still prefer to buy an actual game.
     
  12. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    As a former Gamestop employee, I can tell you Sony is undoubtedly getting an earful from them. The used games have a much higher profit margin, so that's what they push.
     
  13. Talisen

    Talisen Sr Member

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    And Sony probably won't care. They make nothing off of used games sales. But if they think about it, people trade in games to offset the cost of new ones. So they'll be hurting themselves in the end not looking at the big picture.

    Nevermind stores like Gamestop, EB, etc will probably disappear as these margins destroy their profit.

    Next they'll be pushing the DL game, which I hate, I had a couple, but had to delete them for the space since I couldn't move them to an external drive. geez.
     
  14. letmebestormy

    letmebestormy Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'd wager that by the time PS4 comes out this "functionality" will no longer be included.
     
  15. Deelite

    Deelite Active Member

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    and that's why the console and even publishers don't like the used game market. it eats into their profits and no profits, means that fewer games get developed/funded, means less games, means higher prices on games.

    I like used games, I buy them for my niece and nephew since they are cheap, they can scratch them up without me worrying about them hurting my versions. Of course they are "kids" games (thought they do both like some of the M rated titles we play).
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  16. thehorndogg

    thehorndogg New Member

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    So what happens to rentals? Things like Redbox games, and Gamefly.
     
  17. Deelite

    Deelite Active Member

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    They'll probably go the way of the do-do.

    Remember, these are rumors.
     
  18. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    Second hand games can be used but you will have to pay a fee to unlock it for your PSN/XBL account. About rentals, you'll rent them through PSN and XBL.
     
  19. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hell, I don't even have internet at home anymore. Ridiculous to have to be online just to be able to play a game off physical media.
     
  20. Paul Andrew

    Paul Andrew Sr Member

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    Guys. I realize this is the internet and * about rumors is what we do, but come on. We're more than a year out from new consoles (in all likelihood). Breath. It'll be ok. :)
     
  21. Borjis

    Borjis Well-Known Member

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    agreed. I don't like having to be connected to do something pertaining to bought physical media.

    oh well. I only have one ps3 game and like others only use it for Blu-Ray and media-server playback device. works amazingly well with tversity.
     
  22. cboath

    cboath Master Member

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    I think it's funny they believe blocking used games will help them much. Lots of people rent before buying to try it out or borrow from a friend. Eliminate that and you'll lose more than you gain. As noted above just look at dive machines. If Sony wants to do this Microsoft just needs to keep the status quo to drive Sony out of the biz. Theres a reason dive died a super fast death.

    If this actually lowered prices they might have a shot but everyone knows that will never happen. Anyone remember the launch of CDs being 2x the price of records and tapes? They said once it became the norm the price would fall. Never happened. They raised the price of tapes instead.
     
  23. Keyser

    Keyser Member

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    Here is to hoping the rumors are not true.....:unsure
     
  24. DuneMuadDib

    DuneMuadDib Sr Member

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    Way to stay classy, Sony.
     
  25. Ronan87

    Ronan87 Sr Member

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    What bothers me now a day, is paying $59.99 + 13.5% taxes for a new game, that comes as a download.

    So in Canada it means this:
    A new high-end game can be 10 gig... up to 20 gig... and sometimes more... On average, you get 50 gig of download per month allowed.

    You pay the same price as a game that comes on a CD/DVD...

    Oh and now they sell games at the stores that STILL need to be downloaded. The CD/DVD is simply the Installer/Download program...
     
  26. CJS

    CJS Well-Known Member

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    That's lame. And ridiculous. I still believe the PS2 is probly the best system of all time. games, accessories, durability and cost etc etc.
     
  27. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Aaaaaaand keep in mind Telus, Bell, and Rogers have all been agitating to start charging more for the bandwidth you use for netflix and other download/streaming services. Can't wait to find out they've lumped in Live with that thinking so they can collect extra for the 10 gig game DL.
     
  28. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    This. Make no mistake, fellas. Streaming content is the future. And, as broadband internet and data storage become more widely and cheaply available, it's not that bad a problem either. Because...

    Eventually they'll figure out that there's still a market that's willing to pay to play, but the trick is finding the price point that's acceptable to the public. If they can do that, they'll score big. Netflix Streaming is the model.

    Offer people subscription services at different levels, then you never pay for a GAME again -- you pay for the SERVICE, and the only way to get to the game is thru the service. While people like having a physical thing to play, what if you could pay, say, $12/month for not simply one game, but access to a developer's entire catalog? Or pay $40 a month for unlimited access to ALL games on the system, including day-one releases? Or pay $4/month for access to a specific individual game?

    I dunno, I think people will go for something like that. I would, certainly. but maybe the physical game market has to become such a crappy experience first that they'll willingly accept the alternative as a solution to the problem.
     
  29. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I would be ok with this. I would not be ok with disabling used games in the absence of this. I suspect the game industry will have some growing pains in the next few years.
     
  30. Sundowner

    Sundowner Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It was only a matter of time when gaming systems started following the same routine as other tech stuff such as phones, computers, etc. Something new every 6 months to a year and you can hardly keep up with it!
     
  31. Scareb

    Scareb Sr Member

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    Ubisoft tried the Internet connection thing where you couldn't play the game unless you were connected to the Internet. Let's just say you don't need one anymore.
     
  32. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    A lot of fuss over nothing. This is all conjecture, and there is zero basis in fact for any of this. I won't hear any of it until an official announcement from Sony or Microsoft (Yes, it's not just Sony.. they were saying this same thing about MS's new console months ago).
     
  33. division 6

    division 6 Master Member

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    Portal 2 for the PC.

    I just picked up Alice, Return to Madness for my PC and it needs to be registered and decoded to play.
    So I go to register it and it says my email address's is on file (really???) well then since I don't recall ever registering with the company before I hit the forgot password button, then it tells me than none of my 3 addresses are on file even though a minute before is said they where.:angry:darnkids
    So now I have a game I can't play because of this stupid BS.
     
  34. Daemon324

    Daemon324 Active Member

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    Heh, and here I waited something like, two or three years before getting a 360...

    Gives it time to work out the kinks and bugs.

    The PS2 is still one of the best systems around. Plus, it's backwards compatible. Yeay!

    And, I agree, companies wonder why people pirate when they pull stupid stuff...People are dumb, companies are dumber.
     
  35. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not backwards compatible is a game stopper for me which is why I've got a 360 instead of a PS3. I'm at the point in my life where purchasing new games is VERY rare but I have some old ones I enjoy very much.
     
  36. Scareb

    Scareb Sr Member

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    I love my PS3 for the exclusive titles. Anything else I pick up for my 360 and I play the hell out of that system.

    I mostly use my PS3 for blu ray movies. That was the main reason I bought it.
     
  37. Qui-Gonzalez

    Qui-Gonzalez Master Member

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    "What's this? Paul is using logic and reason? To hell with that!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!"
     
  38. division 6

    division 6 Master Member

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    I bought one just to play the Uncharted games and to finish Tomb Raider Legend since they never patched the bug in the PC version.
     
  39. Nwerke

    Nwerke Master Member

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    More fool you for paying for a PC game, cough, ahem, etc. I'm really almost at the point where I feel that way. Console games are fine still so far; I'm not finding enough difference in the experience to be willing to bother with the PC EULA/download/DRM/whatever crapola du jour. Plus, comfier chair.

    It almost was for me too; when they pulled the emulation chip out it felt like a kick in the teeth and I very nearly abandoned my purchase. Especially since they also pulled a decent-sized HDD in my market at the same time.
    I got one in the end, but it did delay me about a year, until after the non-BC 80gb version came out. We just kept our PS2 in commission. We also have a library of stuff we're attached to - wife's just restarted an FFX playthrough, for example, for about the fiftieth time, lol.

    Heh. I actively hope you're right, with accent on the 'more than'. PSIII still feels like a very recent release to me.
     
  40. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Minor point on this, since I've been on both sides of the divide on this issue.

    For many years, I had a sub-par PC for gaming purposes. It was fine for web surfing and word processing, but it was waaaaay out of date for gaming. I didn't feel like spending the cash to fully upgrade because, at that point,that's what I would've had to do. I'd maxed out my RAM, couldn't get a faster CPU without requiring a new power supply, and I had one of the faster video cards for the slot type at the time (this was a PCI or AGP or something -- like I said, it was old).

    So, I started getting into console gaming. Good stuff. Lots of fun games and, once you get the hang of it, using the controller really isn't that bad even for FPS games.


    That said, there are a few gaming experiences that you really just CANNOT get on a console:

    - Any game that supports mods. Bethesda games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim and such are famous for this. Some FPS games too. No console will EVER allow mods. Ever. I mean, setting aside what a monumental pain in the * it'd be to vet each mod, it'd also eat into their livelihood. How you gonna sell lameass DLC to people when they can get free user-created DLC? You think Battlefield Bad Company 2 would've been able to sell its awful map packs (which were really just repurposed existing maps for different game modes) if players had been able to create mods and maps for the game? Like hell.


    - Private custom servers. For any kind of multiplayer gaming, private servers are essential. It's only in the last few months actually that I've seen private servers pop up for consoles with BF3 introducing them. Interesting move, but I wonder how much of a headache it'll turn out to be for EA/DICE. Regardless, being able to admin your own server or play on a server that's actively adminned is critical to fostering a really good gaming experience. Much better than just being stuck with random folks. Friends lists on consoles are a step in the right direction, but you're still stuck with whoever else is on the team. On an adminned server, likeminded players can group together AND control who else plays, as well as other aspects of the gaming experience. Can't usually get that on console (at least not til recently).


    - Certain game types just SUCK on console. Any kind of real-time strategy game is garbage on a console. Flight sims are usually crap too, unless you have some flight-stick + throttle bundle that came with the game, but that's usually way more expensive and only supports, like, 2 games per console. Sad, really. Some other turn-based point-and-click style games really require PCs as well.


    - There are certain hardware limitations for consoles. For example, you can often get double the players in an FPS on a PC that you can on a console. That's not always ideal, mind you, but it's still an option if you want it. Now, I know some games have managed to address this (what's that PS3 game with, like, 100 players at a time?) but it's rare that happens. Usually you're capped around 24 players per game, if not fewer. Graphically I tend to think PCs handle the graphics load better with less risk of, say, a RLOD, but I do think the quality is pretty * close these days. PCs are capable of doing more, of course, but nobody develops the games that way anymore so it's a moot point.
     
  41. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    As far as backwards compatibility, there's a completely unfounded rumor going around (I think it's more well-wishing than anything, myself), that Sony is actually developing an add-on for PS4, a separate device that you buy and plug into the system, that gives it the ability to play all the old games (PS2/3, at any rate, the PS3 can already play PS1 games through emulation).

    I actually think that something like this would be the best solution. When the rumor came along that the new system may not be backwards compatible, there were two sides of the camp. There was the "whatever, I don't want to play old-* games on my shiny new system anyway" crowd, and the "oh no I'm never going to buy this thing ever ever" crowd, the ones who did want to keep playing their old games, but didn't want to have a four-high stack of Playstation consoles just to be able to play everything.

    The trick is that there really are two sides to the argument, and both are correct. There are a bunch of people out there who don't care about BC, and don't want to play those old games anymore. And there are those that do. Out of the second bunch, roughly 100% of them would rather do it on one system than four.

    Case in point, the recent release of the Silent Hill HD Collection. Go read the reviews, it's an absolute travesty. They re-recorded most of the voices for no apparent reason, there's textures actually missing in some parts of the game, especially SH2, the fog looks like crap (they said the PS3 doesn't handle transparency as well as the PS2 did... WHAT?!?!?), in some areas the fog is pushed back so far that you can see the "end of the world" (where there are no objects at all, until you get closer) and it actually has fewer lighting effects and shadows than the original games, which completely breaks it... the atmosphere of these games is based almost entirely on the visuals!

    In other words, while the "HD" collection runs at a higher resolution, that's the only benefit.. otherwise, the original PS2 versions of SH2 and SH3 are better in every other way. And we can't play them without going out and buying a PS2 again.

    You see, I had one of the first-gen PS3s with the PS2 circuits in it, and I could still play them. So I got rid of my PS2, but kept all of my games. And then my PS3 died and I had to replace it with one of the new slim models. Yes, it works great, no complaints.. except that I can't play those PS2 games anymore. Which means I have to buy another PS2 to actually play through the Silent Hill games again.

    That's why we need BC. And yes, I would be willing to shell out another $50-60 bucks or so to buy a "BC Module" so that I could keep all of my PS1/2/3 games and only have the one PS4 hooked up.
     
  42. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    Solo's right, I'm afraid. My PC isn't top of the line, but it can play pretty much everything. I'm slowly working my way through Battlefield 3, and during the F/A-18 mission, I kept thinking to myself "My God, this game is gorgeous".

    Oh, and it's a shooter. Consoles just don't do shooters very well, period. Keyboard/mouse FTW.

    That said, I do own a PS3, and I play action/adventure games on it (Assassin's Creed, for example), and racing games (Gran Turismo) and other types where the game is better suited to sitting on the couch and using a controller. But when it comes to FPS, most RPGs, RTS.. yeah, PC is the way to go.

    Oh, and it's fully backwards-compatible.. I'm fairly certain I can play any PC game ever made without having to pull an older PC out of the closet.
     
  43. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Consoles do shooters ok, but the experience is markedly better on PC with a mousy + keyboard. I played Bad Company 2 on both the PC and the 360 and found it to be fine on both.

    As for BF3's graphics....well, they're very "shiny," but they're also very very stupid in some aspects. Like, lensflare. I swear, JJ Abrams designed the look of this game. There is glare and lensflare off of EVERYTHING. It's insane and overdone and NOT AT ALL REALISTIC BECAUSE THE HUMAN EYE DOES NOT SEE LENS FLARE, DAMMIT.
     
  44. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    That's a big problem in the nighttime scenes, definitely... I die a lot because I can't see ****. It's not so much of a problem in the daytime scenes.
     
  45. GeneralFROSTY

    GeneralFROSTY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    People will still pay - and they know that. The question is, can they sustain business when a considerable amount of gamers decide to stop buying their product and start pirating BECAUSE of their prices/availability.
    People usually don't pirate because they are poor or lazy. They do it because what is currently available does not suit their needs. These companies need to start thinking about the needs of the customers first before the needs of their own bank accounts.
     
  46. cboath

    cboath Master Member

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    Everyone seems more upset (lately anyhow) about not being backwards compatible. I think not being able to play used games will kill it first.
     
  47. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    A lot of folks are up in arms about the used game thing but it also goes hand in hand with not being backwards compatible. This is going to hurt them. Anyone without a PS3 better get one as i have a feeling they're going to sell really well for folks who want to keep playing the games.
     
  48. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Oh, it will be. Play it online and you'll see. Try playing Sharqi Peninsula rush on the attacker side.
     
  49. Contec

    Contec Master Member

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    I still have my old Playstation with FF7... I need no stinking p4 or p3 nor p2.....or the slimmer PsOne
     
  50. who45

    who45 Well-Known Member

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    i wont be buying one, hardly play my ps3, and i only buy used games a few months after release due to the expense of them.

    i remember the days where you walked into a video arcade and tech was leaps ahead of the home market, now the next gen machinery doesnt seem to look any different to whats in the arcades these days - they all look like ps3/xbox games and simply dont appeal to me anymore.

    taking the ability to play used games out of a system is simply stupid, oh hang on tho -- a new game sells once and makes the shop a little profit, by exchaning and reselling the shop makes more and sony lose out - lets put businesess into more of a recession shall we
     

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