Planet Of The Apes - The language issue
- Thread starter PHArchivist
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PHArchivist
Master Member
Frankly, in the end, I think this is a text book example of how audiences - and subsequently the film industry as a whole - have grown more sophisticated over time.
In the 60's, you could roll with **** like this.
Today its a huge plot whole.
Incidentally, how did they deal with this in the fabulous remake?
In the 60's, you could roll with **** like this.
Today its a huge plot whole.
Incidentally, how did they deal with this in the fabulous remake?
Ramsey
Sr Member
I don't know..."The 5th Element" starting using the term "green" years before the rest of the world..even though it didn't exactly mean the same thing. *lol*
Taylor, or whatever his name was lands on an alien planet through a time vortex, however his companions on the 'mother' ship land there with some super-monkeys a long time before he does in their search for him. Those humans and monkeys end up making the planet of the apes that he encounters.
Planet of the men was Serling's script. They went right back to Rod as soon as sequel came up. It's a pretty good script too.
THX 1138 did it too.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
They spoke English a long time ago in a galaxy far far away too, even the ones that don't speak English can understand people that do speak English but choose to reply in their native tongue which the English speaker also understands yet neither party chooses to speak in the others language ever.
The same way writing in the Star Wars universe looks nothing like our alphabet, yet they have A-WING, X-WING AND B-WING labeled aircraft
PHArchivist
Master Member
With most sci-fi flicks, you can rationalize it fairly easy:
-Universal translator
-Luke and Han can speak "Empire-ese" but its just translated to English for our convenience
-A common language set forth by the (Federation, Empire, whatever)
But with POTA, language, and distinctly different cultures are fundamental to the plot.
Taylor has no previous knowledge of the ape culture. He (again) believes they are on a planet orbiting a star light years away from Earth.
Yet he never ponders how it is that the are speaking HIS language.
Conversely, it makes sense why the apes speak English (especially after viewing all the sequels).
And subsequently, it makes some sense that they know why Taylor speaks English (or, that the language he DOES speak is English). Once they have accepted that he is an aberrant human who can actually speak, it would make sense that he speaks the one language they know. And Dr. Zais of course knows the full truth.
But it makes no sense at all that Taylor can fully understand the apes language (again, presumably his own language), yet maintains throughout the film his lack of awareness that he is still on Earth.
Maybe its as simple as - Taylor is an idiot!
-Universal translator
-Luke and Han can speak "Empire-ese" but its just translated to English for our convenience
-A common language set forth by the (Federation, Empire, whatever)
But with POTA, language, and distinctly different cultures are fundamental to the plot.
Taylor has no previous knowledge of the ape culture. He (again) believes they are on a planet orbiting a star light years away from Earth.
Yet he never ponders how it is that the are speaking HIS language.
Conversely, it makes sense why the apes speak English (especially after viewing all the sequels).
And subsequently, it makes some sense that they know why Taylor speaks English (or, that the language he DOES speak is English). Once they have accepted that he is an aberrant human who can actually speak, it would make sense that he speaks the one language they know. And Dr. Zais of course knows the full truth.
But it makes no sense at all that Taylor can fully understand the apes language (again, presumably his own language), yet maintains throughout the film his lack of awareness that he is still on Earth.
Maybe its as simple as - Taylor is an idiot!
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Then why not have all the characters translated for our convenience ?
Aside from the language thing why would he assume he's on an alien planet ?
You would think an astronaut would be somewhat familiar with star constellations how come he never noticed they were identical ?
PHArchivist
Master Member
Dunno.
And the thought was actually, "Maybe Luke and Han speak..."
But that's not the point.
The point is, with most sci-fi films, it doesn't matter how you rationalize it because language isn't as critical to the plot. And there are plenty of methods or rationales why Kirk and Spock could talk freely with Han and Jabba. You could make up pretty much any reason you want, and fit it into the fictional universe.
But with the way POTA is structered, it just doesn't work.
Don't know that either. But its written into the script, and expressed by the actors/characters; more than once.
In fact, the iconic almost-shocking closing scene of the film is entirely predicated on the fact that he does not know he is on Earth.
Totally agree. Again, I guess the easiest answer is that Taylor is just a moron! :lol
By the way, this is all just talk. I'm not defending nor trying to take down this film. I just find it a striking plot hole, and am curious if others agree.
Again, I think the true answer is that the film makers either simply overlooked this, or ignored it, and were able to get away with it due to less demanding audiences of the time.
I think the level of sophistication of the industry and the audiences has consistently played a game of leap frog - audiences demand more, hence the industry takes things a leap forward; audiences become accustomed to the new status quo, and the demands of the audience take a leap forward, and so on, and so on...
And I feel this applies to all sciences (and arts) of the film making process. Not just the visual results of the tangible production, but also the more subjective arts of acting styles, and story telling.
Perhaps in the 1960's audiences weren't as attuned to such "nuances" (or glaring plot holes), or simply didn't care.
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Going the 13th Warrior route would have worked out pretty well to show just HOW intellectually capable Taylow truly was.
I want to say that the actual book went about it this way. It was an interesting read.
-Gary
I want to say that the actual book went about it this way. It was an interesting read.
-Gary
Funky has it right. The human race had not evolved to these levels of geekery in the 60's.
mobius303
Well-Known Member
They were traveling to deep space and probably to Alpha Century the nearest Star.
That was why they were in Deep Sleep. They were asleep for something like 2000 years. The Constellations on Earth would change due to the rotation of the solar system in relation to the Galactic center of the Galaxy.
They thought they were light yeas away from earth so the constellations would be assumed to be different.
So much happens so fast he doesn't put it all together until later...then it hits him like a ton of bricks in the cave and then later at the end of the movie.
It always has made sense to me based on the fact he thought he was far from earth at the beginning and the amount of time that went by.
As far as the apes speaking and writing in English, he really didn't hear them until after his injury and at that point he was trying to survive and probably did have more important things to think about. He was a pilot not a scientist as far as I can remember right now.
Mobius
That was why they were in Deep Sleep. They were asleep for something like 2000 years. The Constellations on Earth would change due to the rotation of the solar system in relation to the Galactic center of the Galaxy.
They thought they were light yeas away from earth so the constellations would be assumed to be different.
So much happens so fast he doesn't put it all together until later...then it hits him like a ton of bricks in the cave and then later at the end of the movie.
It always has made sense to me based on the fact he thought he was far from earth at the beginning and the amount of time that went by.
As far as the apes speaking and writing in English, he really didn't hear them until after his injury and at that point he was trying to survive and probably did have more important things to think about. He was a pilot not a scientist as far as I can remember right now.
Mobius
PHArchivist
Master Member
Going slightly off the subject - in the IMDB, it says that in the original theatrical release/print, you could see an ocean liner behind the Statue of Liberty (they say it has been corrected on subsequent releases).
In 1967, I wonder if it was the Queen Mary? I believe the QM was finally berthed in Long Beach in '67.
In 1967, I wonder if it was the Queen Mary? I believe the QM was finally berthed in Long Beach in '67.
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