PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction / Vader Helmet Discussion

[GINO]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Brian doesn't try to come across as all knowing and he'd be the first one to tell you that, but if he does give you information, you can pretty much take it to the bank.

Like when Brian argued that the vader shins were made of fiberglass when we know for a fact they were vac formed? :rolleyes

The point I'm trying to make is that just because someone was involved with the production doesn't mean you should just take their word as gold.
Think of all the instances in the past where people of Brian's status made some pretty silly claims according to what we know to be true.
And I'm not saying that Brian doesn't have a lot of really great insight/info that is factual. But it's the mindset of "he can't be wrong" that I don't agree with.

I regard Brian just like I would any other person in this hobby. When he's right, cool, but when he's not, well, can't let someone (regardless of their status) spread around incorrect or sketchy information (even if their intentions are good).
If George Lucas signed up to the forum and said that the Vader shoulder armor was made of solid metal, would you not speak up?
I can just hear you now "How do YOU know there wasn't a set of solid metal Vader shoulder armor. Were YOU there?" :rolleyes

I wish all you Den and TM guys would stop causing problems here...go away!:lol

Usually the reason people form cliques is because they are not strong enough to stand on their own.



.

 

[lambotour]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Like when Brian argued that the vader shins were made of fiberglass when we know for a fact they were vac formed? :rolleyes

Like the time you said that a GH style vader faceplate was the best vader helmet in fandom.:rolleyes

My point is that you have been wrong in the past also and still continue to give out inaccurate information. There was a time when you stated that bumpy trooper caps were not accurate. Do you remember that one? Or how about when Mike (vadermonkey) and I had to correct you, on your own forum no less, when you were giving out inaccurate information with regard to the paint scheme on ESB faceplates. Or when you stated that there is no knotch in the left side nose portion of an ROTJ faceplate, when clearly it's there on the screenused. I could sit here and write a book about how many inaccurate statements you've made in the past. Yet you want people to believe that you are without error in your statements : " I may not know EVERYTHING there is to know about vader, but I know more than any of these wannabes on these forums.. " That is clearly not the case.

I'm not saying Brian is infallible, no one is, but in my experience with him he's been pretty much on the money. He remembers fiberglass shins and that's what he told us. If he hadn't he would have said he didn't remember. Did it ever occur to you that fiberglass shins were made only to find they were too cumbersome for Prowse and they later changed them to ABS before filming started? I don't discount what Brian says, based on someone like Prowse saying the faceplate was all black when we know otherwise. Brian has shown me that his knowledge, for the most part, is accurate. I can only judge him on that and that is what I do.

 

[lambotour]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Usually the reason people form cliques is because they are not strong enough to stand on their own.
.

Kinda like starting your own forum and banning anyone that disagrees with you. You can't even handle your own on your own forum. Wonder what that says about you.:rolleyes Let me hear it, come one, The Den staff banned me boo hoo.:cry I've lost count how many forums have banned you due to your disruptive behavior. Guess those little vader displays and your vast knowledge wasn't enough to keep you around. I know, I know, their loss.


You want to talk about insecurity? How about having to bump your own threads with comments like : Ooooo, hey guys look. My thread has reached 10,000 views. I feel all giddy inside.:love Let me keep bumping my own threads so the newbies can tell me how great I am. Grow up bro. You are as transparent as they come.

I'm sure you will have a witty comeback, like you always do. So I'm allowing you the last word because I've wasted enough time on you. Take care honey.

 

[vaderdarth]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Well said Lambotour, well said. I'd trust Brian's account of the shins any day of the week. Brian wasn't the only person who mentioned a fiberglass set of vader shins. If the rest of the armor was fiberglass, it's not a stretch to believe there are a set of fiberglass shins floating around. If the fiberglass shins were too constricting, they'd likely have poured a plaster buck inside an alginate mould of the fiberglass shin, then used that for a slightly larger sized ABS shin.

 

[SithLord]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

There's photographic evidence of fiberglass shins being made, so Brian is right about the original shins (original in this case meaning first). However, there is also evidence that the ones that ended up being used were vacuformed. So at some point during the production they were possibly switched.

 

[GINO]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

there's photographic evidence of fiberglass shins being made

bs.



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[Brian Muir]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Yes Gino as you were told last time you brought this up there is footage of Lammy Stobart making the fibreglass Vader shins on the production but you obviously don't listen and learn. Unlike you I can give names and evidence to back up facts I put forward. I gave a copy of the dvd to Lucasfilm for their archives as they did not have it either.

Now your comment' bs 'shows you for being the person you are. I can only presume that this is your method for the footage to be produced and I trust that no-one else fall for it.

This is the last bit of knowledge I will be giving YOU as you are obviously trolling and as usual getting away with it on this site.

 

[GINO]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Why don't you link to this footage then and prove me wrong.

 

[Brian Muir]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Why don't you link to this footage then and prove me wrong.

I don't need to prove you wrong Gino because I KNOW I'm right. Please read the previous post. I know you too well.

 

[Darth Niob]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Why don't you link to this footage then and prove me wrong.

Now that is really funny:lol
Why dont YOU prove anything of the bs you always talk about.
The only thing we hear from you are statements you see as fact without any kind of prove.......just the word of the allmighty Gino.:rolleyes

Good to see many of your former fellowers know now what a poor character you really are....better late than never.

 

[Brian Muir]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I an only echo this about Brian. He and I have had our eShouting matches, of which I am NOT proud of, but he is a REAL stand up guy and a kick ass artist. He has been a boon to the RPF and the Vader community as a whole.

That is about all I have to say. Thanks for being here and offering up your knowledge, Brian.

Thanks Qui I appreciate your post :cool

 

[Vadermonkey]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Usually the reason people form cliques is because they are not strong enough to stand on their own.

Usually people are taller than a desk. :rolleyes

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Brian said that two helmets existed and that this fact can be proven by John Mollo himself.

So...this is a statement. Anything unclear?

This refurbishing theory is as good as any theorie. What about the molds? I don't think that they took an existing ANH helmet and refurbished it - since Star Wars became a smash, why destroy an original ANH helmet in order to make an ESB out of it for the 5th part of the trilogy? What a waste of money! Since GL was clever enough to secure the rights on merchandising, why devalue THE original screenused ANH helmet?

I mean, did they run out of money??? A mold collecting dust and the crew spends hours on totally refurbish and modify the existing ANH or ESB helmet?

I have no insider information whatsoever but what if they just didn't refurbish the helmets but making casts out of an existing ANH mold and THEN modify these casts? So to say that the ANH mold(s) is the father of all Vader helmets out there in the first place but then these casts were modified. Every cast differs a little bit from the other so the differences are explained.

Molds and casts where made, but they also refurbished the original ANH helmet. At least there are very strong indications that they did. They refurbished ANH stormtroopers in ESB and many other pieces. They were a movie production, not a museum, so any penny saved for future production was a penny earned, so anything that was usable was thrown into the other productions without much consideration on keeping them as they were in the previous production.

 

[SFPROPS]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

What have I said that was incorrect?
If there is hard confirmation of a certain number of helmets made (like production records) then that would be different. I and many others just have a hard time relying solely on the memories of those involved int the production.
And especially in this case, your memory, where it deals with something that you were not directly involved in (anything in regards to vader other than the initial sculpting).

I don't think this is a convincing argument. I know personally that were I work that there are an immense number of things I am not directly responsible for, but which I have extensive knowledge of because I am surrounded by the tasks in question and talk to those completing them on a daily basis. Just because I'm not personally responsible doesn't mean that I'm out of the loop as far as what is going on and can tell pretty detailed accounts of major happenings over the past 16 years I've worked there.

While I'd never suggest that 30 memories are infallible and that someone like Brian couldn't have gotten something wrong, the burden of proof really isn't on him as he was a WITNESS to what went on at the time it happened and was intimately involved with the processes we are talking about. That IS EVIDENCE.

Stubbornly insisting that your personal interpretation of fuzzy screencaps and sporadicly taken photos taken at the time tells a complete story of what happened is pretty short sighted, in my opinion. In other words, there's a middle ground between believing a theory because you think that there is evidence to support it, and believing your knowledge is so infallible that even when someone who directly witnessed things suggests your information is incorrect you refuse to even reconsider that the information you previously took for granted could be incorrect.

:thumbsdown

 

[Art Andrews]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Two things:

First, We are always glad to see Vader information shared here, but we are beginning to stray from the original intent of this thread. If it continues, we will split the thread and you guys can continue the "who is wrong more" or "who is king of the dome" discussion in a separate thread. Let's keep this thread focused on the helmet being offered in the PiH auction and not on personalities.

Second, if you MUST go back and forth, keep it based on the subject at hand, Vader, and knock off the personal jabs. I know it is fun, but again, lets focus on the props and not the personalities.

 

[cerillo]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Here's my GH photoshopped B&W

I couldn't be more happier with Steve's work in regards to the OT Vader's, in short, it boils down to personnel preferance. Learning the history is fine and if you worked around it that good info too, but If you don't have the ORIGINAL HELMET there's really not too much you can say.

 

[SithLord]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Learning the history is fine and if you worked around it that good info too, but If you don't have the ORIGINAL HELMET there's really not too much you can say.

So you are saying that if no one actually has the original ANH helmet in their possession they cannot say anything? :confused

 

[anakin]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

Wow Lambotour - That is a stand up character reference :thumbsup. I, like many people don't know Brian personally ( by the way BM - thanks for the autographed "In the Shadow of Vader earlier this year :thumbsup however, newbie to the hobby or not - imo, I will side with individual(s) who actually where involved in the production. Having been a former A.D on set for various television and film shoots in Toronto, I can truly appreciate how many details and events that had transpired on various sets, in the production office...art department...wardrobe...you name it ( many studio and many more location shoots that I care to remember ) throughout my years, are burned in my memory. Thanks Brian for sharing those thoughts on this board and others and also in your book.

Wait for it.........

Let me just say this about Brian. In all the time I've known him, if he didn't know the answer to one of my questions pertaining to vader or whatever, he would simply just tell me: I don't know. He would then give me the names of individuals who would have known, but the majority of them are no longer here. He very rarely speculates, at least the times I've spoken with him. He either knew the answer or he didn't.

He doesn't claim to know everything there is to know about vader, in fact, he wasn't able to answer some of my questions at all. But when he did know the answer, I was amazed at the names, information and locations he would provide, in addition to Lindsay who knows quite a bit herself.

His 30+ year old memory was good enough for LFL. He relayed information during the AA trial that no one at LFL even knew or had record of. Brian doesn't try to come across as all knowing and he'd be the first one to tell you that, but if he does give you information, you can pretty much take it to the bank. In addition, he will provide you, when he can, with all the relevant information which you can then research yourself and find out if he's correct. We've heard the I know but can't tell you blah, blah, blah arguments. It's good to see someone who is willing to give out information that can be validated.

Same old arguments, flame wars and BS. All the time with the same people in this community. Funny thing is, people are opening their eyes more in the past few years and see past the BS of a few.

 

[Vader1]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

I enjoy reading the threads much more than posting. I enjoy and appreciate all the wealth of knowledge our Vader experts share on the RPF about our most beloved villian, Darth Vader. It is especially nice and a privilege to have Mr. Muir on the RPF. I sincerely say "Thank you!" to him for everything he shares and recounts to us.:cheers


Gino,

I find your posts to Mr. Muir very disrespectful and baiting. This is again another thread, which I have lost count how many, over the 5 years I have been a member that I have read, that you have successfully disrupted. Even though you say your goal is to prevent misinformation. It is a rare occasion that you ever provide any information with any references to confirm any of your own claims. Your replys regarding other member's post that you feel are incorrect are rarely constructive or presented in a positive manner. More times than not, your posts, as in this very thread, tend to side track the real topic and start a battle.

Please give your keyboard and mouse a rest and just relish in the fact that you know more about OT Vader than anyone else in the galaxy.:rolleyes

 

[cerillo]

Re: PIH Production Vader Helmet Up for Auction

So you are saying that if no one actually has the original ANH helmet in their possession they cannot say anything? :confused

What I'm saying is what you already know; (and since you've been here since 2004, I'm sure you've seen plenty of these threads)

We all know where this is going to lead....

"Who has the most accuate Helmet and it's Lienage to back up their claims."