Padawan seeks sage advice

[NeonNazgul]

Greetings RPFers!

I've recently started this great hobby and would greatly appreciate any advice. I'll preface this by saying I really don't have a *clue* what I'm doing, but bolstered by the incredible work I've seen on the RPF I'm trying my hand. I've poked around here and YouTubed my heart out, but if anyone has some one-on-one advice that would be fantastic.

The project: Modding a Don Post Standard (Rubies) Vader mask.
The goal: New mouth grills, eye lenses, paint job
The why: A Tale of Two Vaders | NeonNazgul.com (my personal blog. Just for those interested in why on earth I'm bothering with a Don Post Standard)

I've pulled the lenses out and popped out the nose and tusk caps no problem. Using a Dremel I've started cutting out the plastic grill between the teeth with the ultimate goal of putting a nice metal one back in.

The issue I'm currently facing is the injection-molded plastic (a vinyl I believe but please correct me if I'm wrong) is sanding roughly. It's tending to roll up into filaments and give ragged edges. I'm using 220 sandpaper and small sanding sticks of similar grain. My process so far is this:

1) Core out the bulk of the material with the Dremel
2) File down the rough edges with a needle file
3) Sand the rest of the way

The results aren't *too* bad but i can foresee problems. Here's what the first cut-out looks like:




At this stage I'm wondering if anyone has sanding advice for this sort of material. I'm having some difficulty getting clean edges, and preserving sharp lines and angles -- the right angle at the base for example, is getting a bit "mushy". Any tips & tricks I should be aware of?

As I said I'm totally green at anything like this, so any advice is greatly appreciated Thanks for you time folks.

 

[madmanmoe64]

I don't have any direct experience with Vader helmets but some general advice:
- the wider range of paper grits you use the better. Have a rough one for shaping, then work your way down to 400 at least, to get smooth edges.
- If the plastic is too thin (flexing when you're sanding) you may want to add support material behind. (I can't tell the quality / thickness of the mask from those pictures, so this may not be the case)

- Tom

 

[Jsimon999]

If I could just add a word of caution...if you don't really have a "clue" what you are doing, then you may be attempting something over the proper project gradient. In other words, a baby trying to run up the stairs before it's learned to crawl. I've been there many times...and paid the price. About 7 years ago, I couldn't nail two boards together to save my life. Today, I am quite able but it was all hard won.

So there is a learning curve to a lot of the stuff people are doing here. Duplicating the steps involved in a project by rote anyone can do with some determination. But the final result will all depend on finese and skill acquired by ~a lot~ of experience, frustration and trial and error. Then again, you may find that you are a complete natural at it. Only way to find out is to try.

In any event, don't let failure or lack of perfection at first stop you.

:thumbsup
Jon

 

[NeonNazgul]

I don't have any direct experience with Vader helmets but some general advice:
- the wider range of paper grits you use the better. Have a rough one for shaping, then work your way down to 400 at least, to get smooth edges.
- If the plastic is too thin (flexing when you're sanding) you may want to add support material behind. (I can't tell the quality / thickness of the mask from those pictures, so this may not be the case)

- Tom

Cheers. At the moment I'm going straight from the metal needle file to 220 sandpaper, so I'll try a few intermediate grades. Much appreciated

 

[NeonNazgul]

If I could just add a word of caution...if you don't really have a "clue" what you are doing, then you may be attempting something over the proper project gradient. In other words, a baby trying to run up the stairs before it's learned to crawl. I've been there many times...and paid the price. About 7 years ago, I couldn't nail two boards together to save my life. Today, I am quite able but it was all hard won.

So there is a learning curve to a lot of the stuff people are doing here. Duplicating the steps involved in a project by rote anyone can do with some determination. But the final result will all depend on finese and skill acquired by ~a lot~ of experience, frustration and trial and error. Then again, you may find that you are a complete natural at it. Only way to find out is to try.

In any event, don't let failure or lack of perfection at first stop you.

:thumbsup
Jon

Oh absolutely. One of the reason I'm doing a Don Post standard is in the event that I totally mess it up, I'm only out $40 There's a $100 Rubies Deluxe sitting on the shelf that I'm not even going to contemplate touching until I get some experience. By no means am I expecting or even aiming for perfection right out of the gate.

I have some experience in scale model building so I guess I overstated the *totally* clueless part, but this sort of work is a whole different animal. It's a bit intimidating but also so much fun that I'm more than happy to put in the hours to develop the necessary skills.

That being said, I chose this project specifically *because* I knew it was just beyond my current skill level, so I'd learn new things. With the understanding that failure is absolutely an option

 

[Jsimon999]

I had a slight suspicion you weren't totally clueless if you found this place.

I think your strategy is a good one. $40 isn't a big risk. And pushing the limits of our current skill level is always necessary.

Looking forward to seeing how it progresses.

Jon

 

[Propsjonnyb]

The problem is it's vynil, plastic , your sander or dremmel tool is spinning too fast for the material , friction is heating up the plastic and the surface is breaking down , you need a regulator or variable speed control to slow the speed down , this will solve your problem , the last resort is to use you hands and a sanding block , slow I know , but it will give you a better finish

 

[NeonNazgul]

The problem is it's vynil, plastic , your sander or dremmel tool is spinning too fast for the material , friction is heating up the plastic and the surface is breaking down , you need a regulator or variable speed control to slow the speed down , this will solve your problem , the last resort is to use you hands and a sanding block , slow I know , but it will give you a better finish

Aha! See, I knew there was something I hadn't thought of Thankfully my Dremel is variable speed, so I shall try slowing it down. Much appreciated.

 

[Happy13178]

Oh absolutely. One of the reason I'm doing a Don Post standard is in the event that I totally mess it up, I'm only out $40 There's a $100 Rubies Deluxe sitting on the shelf that I'm not even going to contemplate touching until I get some experience. By no means am I expecting or even aiming for perfection right out of the gate.

I have some experience in scale model building so I guess I overstated the *totally* clueless part, but this sort of work is a whole different animal. It's a bit intimidating but also so much fun that I'm more than happy to put in the hours to develop the necessary skills.

That being said, I chose this project specifically *because* I knew it was just beyond my current skill level, so I'd learn new things. With the understanding that failure is absolutely an option

You're smarter than I was, I went straight for the Rubies. If you're getting too many filaments when sanding by hand, try a finer grit. I used a 3M 320 grit sanding sponge after I screwed up other stuff with heavier grits.

With or without the dremel, don't go too coarse on the grit, the plastic isn't very forgiving, as I'm sure you know, and scars easily, and it's a bitch fixing it after the fact.

 

[NeonNazgul]

You're smarter than I was, I went straight for the Rubies. If you're getting too many filaments when sanding by hand, try a finer grit. I used a 3M 320 grit sanding sponge after I screwed up other stuff with heavier grits.

With or without the dremel, don't go too coarse on the grit, the plastic isn't very forgiving, as I'm sure you know, and scars easily, and it's a bitch fixing it after the fact.

Gotcha. I've cut out a couple more and there is definite improvement. I'm finding that going slower with a lighter touch is helping as well. But yes, I'm learning you need to be *really* careful with errant movements of the file since it does scar so easily, as you say. I foresee Bondo and a lot of primer/wet sand cycles in the near future

I'll post more pics a bit later on this thread. Maybe there are some other greenhorns lurking that would find it useful to see what I do right and wrong.