Overwatch Genji's Helmet

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by OlivierC, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Hello everyone,

    My name is Olivier, I have been subscribed to this forum for quiet some time, but never posted any real work until now. I have learned a lot here, and this is my first serious attempt at prop making. I made some cosplay stuff in the past, but this time I'm really aiming for something that looks accurate and professionally made.

    This is what I'm going for, just the helmet part, at least for now:

    http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch/images/7/70/GenjiConcept.jpg



    So, first thing, I modeled the helmet in Maya, using the game model as reference and stills from the short movie featuring Genji as well:

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    I only worked on it during lunch break, so it took quiet some time. Many revisions, to make sure all the parts fit together and that you can actually put your head inside. I actually had to scale it up by 45% because Genji has a tiny head. If I had made it according to the game's scale, it would have been child size. Other than that, I tried to be as accurate as possible.

    I own an Ultimaker so I'll print some parts myself, but for the bigger ones, I am going through Shapeways, to avoid 40+ hours prints and having to slice it in many parts that may wrap and not fit together correctly.


    So this is the first big part I had printed, looked like this when I received it from Shapeways:

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    To be honnest, it looked better than I expected. Because of the size and cost, I had to go with the lowest quality they had, so I was worried. But it turned out ok. It's not great, but not as grainy as I thought.

    So then came the fun part. Lots of priming, filling, sanding... rinse and repeat. I honestly lost count of how many time I did it.

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    After many hours, working only during the week ends or whenever I have 10 minutes for myself, I finally got to a point where I'm happy with it:


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    That's all for now. I just ordered the jaw part from Shapeways yesterday and the "ears" are ready to print at home

    I'm planning to mold and cast it. I have been practicing mold making on smaller parts and so far it worked great. This one is not going to be easy to mold because the shapes are pretty complex, but I have been planning it for quiet some time and I think I got it figured out. I want to make at least two of them, but if there is enough interest, I might do more, but I'll keep it very limited, I don't want to mass produce it.

    The visor will be vacuum formed (need to build a small vac forming machine first :) ) and I will add an LED strip for the "eyes"
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  2. Uridium

    Uridium Well-Known Member

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    Looks great Olivier, very professional.
    I am already looking forward to seeing this when its complete.
     
  3. LeClubNerd

    LeClubNerd Well-Known Member

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    Subbed and looking forward to more :)
     
  4. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    thank you guys. the next big part is ordered (the jaw). Delivery estimated around Nov 13. it will be a long wait. In the meantime, I might try molding this big boy with silicone if I have time.
     
  5. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Small update just to say it's not one of those projects that die just a week after they begin :) I received a new part from Shapeways. Also, I did a little bit more of sanding and filling on the forehead because I was not 100% happy with it

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  6. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Update time. I got all the parts printed ! Lots of sanding and filling to come.

    Don't even start asking how much it cost to print everything, it was ridiculously expensive! I did however got a decent discount from shapeways for black friday, that's why I ordered all the missing parts, but still it's was quiet a lot to shovel at once.

    Also, even though scaled it up to make it wearable (genji actually has a tiny head), it's won't fit everyone. I did not want to oversize it too much either so I only scalled it what I thought would be just enough, using my own head mesurement, but it turn out I was not able to squeeze my head in without risking to break it or getting stuck, the "cheeks" are blocking my head to go through while there is actually plently of room inside the helmet. My girlfriend however has a smaller head and was able to put it on. Since it would not fit me only by a very little, I hope that once I cast it with smoothcast 65D, which is a bit flexible, I'll be able to pull the cheeks aside and be able to squeeze my head in. But if I try that with 3d print, I might break it.
    Wearing it was not the primary purpose, it's more of a display prop, not for cosplaying. But still, since I made it bigger than it's supposed to be only so it could be worn, it would be a bummer if it does not fit me in the end.

    Edit: I did 3d print the visor but I'm not boing to mold and cast it with clear resin. It to complicated to get a clean cast without bubbles, don't want to invest in a pressure pot (yet). Instead I'll use it as a master to vaccum form it with transparent plastic. I have yet to build the vaccum forming machine :)

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  7. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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  8. Billy the Hero

    Billy the Hero Member

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    From shapeways? That must've cost an arm and a leg....I usually like to go with a good old exacto and craft foam.
     
  9. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    yup, you're totally right. It was unnecessarily expensive and if I had to do it again, I'd probably go with pepacura, foam carving or straight clay sculpt.
    I'm a n00b and this is my first prop. I come from the 3d animation industry so I'm a lot more comfortable with 3d modeling. I know it's better practice to learn new stuff, but there is already a lot of new things for me in this project, including molding and casting (first small scale tests are promissing though) So yeah for this first try I played it safe and prefered paying a little extra $$ to avoid a lot of frustration.

    However, I hollowed out my models as much as possible, they are not solid, only a few millimeters thick. This litterally saved me several hundereds of dollars on the bigger parts, and made the smaller parts like the antennas under $20.

    EDIT: oh and of course, I got it printed with the cheapest material avaible. It was the only one available for items of this size anyway
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  10. Billy the Hero

    Billy the Hero Member

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    For future reference, try 3dhubs.com and look for a local 3D printing service. Usually the prices are half that of Shapeways and a local venue means that communication is wonderful. Sure, you'll have a rougher model, but you can always clean them up yourself with 600 grit and filler primer.

    It's often ludicrous how much Shapeways charges. A 2x3x5mm visor for a figurine out of PLA costs $40 on Shapeways. It cost 16 cents at a local hub.
     
  11. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    This is indeed very expensive, I don't undestand how you got such a high price with PLA. I could understand if you selected their super high detaild frosted plastic, but PLA... for instance, the antena that I have here, is approximately 27*9*9mm is "only" $18 if I select PLA.

    I did not know 3dhub, it's is indeed very interesting, I just uploaded my biggest part, the bucket, and the first quote I get is about a third of the price I paid :( . Now that's just an estimattion, maybe the final cost would be different for such a big object
     
  12. Billy the Hero

    Billy the Hero Member

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    I assure you, with the cost of handling, which is usually 5 bucks for most places, combined with shipping, there should be no more than a 15-20 dollar price increase. I've used it for years.
     
  13. Nokle

    Nokle Member

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    Whose file ? Do3D's or your own ?
     
  14. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    This is my own, modeled in maya using the game's model as reference. I went to check at do3d's version, it look alright except for some pinching caused by bad topology. That will require some bondo and sanding to get a smooth surface. Also, looking at the full body shots, it looks like they did not resize the head, it's tiny, like on the game model. If that's really the case and try to print it "as is", then good luck trying to put it on, unless you're 8 years old :) But overall it looks ok, just needs to be scalled up a bit
     
  15. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Hello, I'm bumping this thread because I got back to work on this last week. Not an impressive update to look at, but it actually was a lot of work, to get a smooth finish on all those parts.

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    Except for the bucket itself which still early wip, all the other parts are ready to mold (just need to sand them one last time with 1000p grit to get a super smooth finish)

    More to come soon.
     
  16. MemorY

    MemorY New Member

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    Looks great man!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Update Time!

    It's been a long time since I worked on this project. I had shelved it for a while because I was working on other things. But now I'm back, and I'm pretty much done with the master, it's ready to mold, which is the next big step. I don't have much experience with mold making, I only did a few test on small scale stuff, so I'm a bit anxious.

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    I'm going to have to put it on hold for another week or two because of work, but I'm happy of the progress I made in just three days, while it's been seating here untouched for the past three months
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Drstrangelove42

    Drstrangelove42 New Member

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    Man, I love this thread! Subbed and will be following this closely :D
     
  19. eethan

    eethan Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey Olivier! finally some progress :thumbsup
    nice work! looking forward to see the result of the next step :)
     
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  20. Wimismith

    Wimismith Active Member

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    It's looking good, look forward to seeing how it turns out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I have some long overdue updates for you. I'm pretty much done with the silicone mold making and halfway through my first cast.

    So first, I molded the forehead part. I hesitated between doing a brushed-on mold with a hard shell or a much simpler pour-in mold. I went with the second option because I don't have much experience in mold making and it looked easier. This was my first mistake : I ended up using A LOT of silicone, a lot more than I wanted, even with an optimized mold shape. Beside the fact that silicone ain't cheap, the mold is also super heavy, which is a problem, considering I want to rotocast this part.

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    So I decided to not repeat the same mistake for the jaw/chin part, for which I made a brush-on mold. You can see it in progress here:
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    You can also so the mold for the bucket itself sitting behind, I forgot to take pictures while I was making it, because I was not too sure if I was doing it right, but I think it worked pretty well in the end. I have yet to pull the master out, as I have not made the mother mold on top yet, I was waiting for the jaw silicone to be done, so I could make both mother molds at the same time.

    Then I decided to try to cast the forhead.

    First I tried rotocasting it with Smooth Cast 65D, and it did not go so well :
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    I tried twice without any luck:

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    It's really hard to figure out what is happening inside your mold when you can't see it.
    So then I tried to completely fill the mold with resin instead, using Smooth Cast 300 but that did not work either because that's not what I designed the mold for. Even after I cut some vents so air would not get trapped, it would not fill up because of where the pouring spout was located, it's just physics. No matter how I orientated the mold, it would either not fill up or overflow through the pouring hole I had positioned too low. On top of that, such a high volume of resine gets hard very fast, so you don't have much time to work.

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    So as a last resort, I tried rotocasting again, but with smooth cast 300 instead of 65D. And guess what, it worked:

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    This is funny because the 65D is clearly advertised for rotocasting, for its high viscosity. But in my case, this viscosity was more of a problem, because it would not allow the resin to flow everywhere inside the mold, while the 300, which is much more fluid, did.

    The tip is a bit messy because the mold did not cure very well there, but I can fix it with a bit of sanding and putty. I will eventually remake this mold as a brushed-on like the others when I'm completely done with the first cast.

    Next to that, molding and casting the smaller parts was like a breeze, no issue there :

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    The small cone is rotocast, so it gave me some practice for the big bucket

    Now I just have to finish the mother molds for the chin and bucket, and cast them, which should be much easier than the forhead, for which I had to continualy rotate a 20 pounds mold for many minutes, it was exhausting
     

    Attached Files:

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  22. progolfercd

    progolfercd Member

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    subbing to see more. You're progress is wonderful. Keep up the good work!
     
  23. Kadajiroth

    Kadajiroth Sr Member

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    This is beautiful work so far, dude. Well done.
     
  24. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    quick not-so-interesting update, I did the mother molds for the helmet and jaw. Does not look like much work, but cutting these pieces of plywood to the right shapes was tricky, especially for the jaw.

    So hopefuly, I should be able to cast these two last parts and maybe do the painting this week. I have to do some painting test first. I bought several types of chrome paints, I want to see which one looks better. I also want to test diffferent colors for the undercoat, see if I can get some nice effect if I use blue/purple paint. Also want to test different kind of clear coats, I'm not sure chrome paint react really well to it. So yeah, tests.

    This is what my garage looks like at the moment. I try to clean up as often as possible, but each step creates a new mess
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    I'm using Smooth-on's Plasti-Paste for the mother mold. That **** is nasty, it sticks to everything
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    Then it was time to pop open the bucket.

    DID I MENTION I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE?
    This was one of the most nerve wracking part so far. It was sealed to the base wood board, I had to used a bunch of tools to pry it open. I tried to use a dremel, but because of the shape of the helmet and the size of the dremel (it's pretty big), I could not reach the seam between the board and the shell. So I used a wood carver and a hammer. I could hear a lot of cracking, I was ****ting my pants, I was so scared of breaking something. It took me almost an hour to get through it but I finally made it.

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    Then It was time to remove the master from the silicon mold. I thought it would be as easy as flipping a sock inside out. Ah ah, silly me. It took me another 10 minutes just to do that, mostly because I was worried of damaging the mold if I stretched it too much

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    But here is it out, now it's time to put the mold back together and try to cast with Smooth Cast 65D

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  25. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Oh and I built a small vaccum forming box to mold the the visor. It may be a bit too small but I figured it would be much easier to use an existing box than starting from scratch. We'll see how it goes, I'll try to find another box if this one does not do the trick

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  26. zoal

    zoal Member

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    Just curious what is the red primer you're using?
     
  27. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Nothing fancy, generic brand, I got it at an automotive store. I used red because the putty I use is gray, so it allows me to differenciate the layers. And red looks cool. But I don't use it because it's better than another one.

    Today I casted the last, but not least parts

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    The casts are not perfect, some air buble and seams here and there, but I want to just get over with it, so I'll just use a bit of putty and sanding.

    There is a hole at the back of the jaw, but this part won't be visible, so screw it.
     
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  28. Uridium

    Uridium Well-Known Member

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    Its really interesting to see documented 'fails' and 'errors' as well as successes. It gives those of us who haven't done this type of work a much better insight into the pitfalls and issues as well as how to do it right.

    Looking forward to seeing your final piece, it looks great so far.
     
  29. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Thank you. Here are the things I could learn from this project:

    - silicone is expensive and don't have a very long shelf life : I ordered my silicone back in november of last year I believe, but then the project was put on hold several times and I ended up using it only this month. As a result, it did not go bad bad completely but it was much thicker that it was supposed to be. I realized that when I order a bit more to complete the molds, it was much more fluid, much easier to mix, pour and would not trap as many air bubbles. So don't order silicone way ahead, wait for your master to be ready to mold.

    - resine is rather cheap compared, so don't hesitate to start over if you mess up your cast.

    - resine sets very quickly, so be sure everything is ready when you mix part A with part B.

    - you can clean up uncured resin from your molds with aceton. Yeah that happened to me once. I got distracted between pouring part A and B and ending pouring part B twice. That was the first layer, so I had to clean up the whole mold after that.

    - don't make big pour-in molds : too expensive, and then you end up with a heavy and bulky mold, which is an issue if you had planned to do rotocasting with it. Also, it's really hard to pop the parts out. The mold itself is easier and faster to make, but in the end, it's very unpractical.

    - Don't make 1-part brush-on mold for buckets. I thought it would be easy to remove the cast from the mold, just like flipping a sock inside-out, but it's actually super hard and you risk damaging the mold or the cast from pulling too hard. So it's probably better to make two halves, you'll have a seam line, but resine is very easy to sand.

    - Make your brush on molds thick: mine were 4 layers : 1 layer with silicone thinner, to avoid air bubbles and to ensure the silicon would flow in every hole. one regular layer, and 2 layers with silicon thickener. In the end the molds were not thick enough and a bit too floppy. As a result they did not keep their shape perfectly, despite the many registering keys I had made (pouring silicone in an ice tray). This resulted in bumps and dents in the bucket, and the jaw mold not sealing correctly.
    I think a couple more layers would have helped.

    - Got better results at rotocasting using Smooth Cast 300 than Smooth Cast 65D, while 65D is clearly advertised for rotocasting. It's thicker and more viscous, but in my case, the high viscosity caused more trouble than anything. I used the 65D for the bucket though, because I could see the inside of the mold and the resin flowing while I was doing it.

    - Smooth-on's Plasti Paste: it's great because it's much easier to use than real fiberglass. Just make sure to smooth out the surface as much as possible while it's still fresh, because then, any stroke mark will transform into evil spikes that will mess up your hands and scratch your arms while rotocasting.

    - you don't have to buy expensive mold release spray for two-parts molds, you can use petroleum jelly (known as vaseline in europe). It's much easier to find and very cheap. It's not as conviniant, but believe me, when you have already shoveled several hundreds in materials, you don't mind saving 20 bucks.

    - wear gloves. I don't, because I hate it, but if you don't mind the gloves, were them, especially for the resin part

    - do something simpler for you first helmet, like a stormtrooper. That **** was way over my head for a first try. I was very close to giving up several times. The only reason I carried on was because I had already invested too much time and money on this project and if I did not complete it would have been a real waste.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  30. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Almost done with the paint! However, this is not the cast but the master. I had too many issues with the cast, including the helmet that got deformed pretty badly during my move. It was well packed, but something was probably sitting on it. I don't have the will to unpack the molds and recast everything (I'm moving again soon overseas). I just want to get over with it quickly.
    the chrome paint is a pain in the *, I had to repaint each parts several times. I'm nearly there, I just need to vac form the visor and tint it green

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  31. Funky

    Funky Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Outstanding work! :thumbsup
     
  32. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Thank you, I almost trashed it several times, including today :) this project was way over my head for a first prop, lots for beginner mistakes
     
  33. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    I added the visor :)

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  34. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    One last update for today, I added the "scarf" and tested light with an led flashlight placed underneath the helmet. The visor looks teal because the light is a cold white, almost blue. But it looks greener in real life and I will use a warmer light (maybe rgb led so I can fine tune it) for the final setup

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  35. Sayha

    Sayha Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great work! It looks amazing.
     
  36. Uridium

    Uridium Well-Known Member

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    Amazeballs!!
     
  37. Grey

    Grey Sr Member

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    Something like a green EL strip might look really cool if you have room for the electronics somewhere. https://www.adafruit.com/product/446

    edit: I just realised you need to see out of it. I'm dumb.
     
  38. OlivierC

    OlivierC Active Member

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    Actually, this is a good idea. This version is not really wearable, it's the master 3D print that I painted, I set the resin cast aside for a while because I was having too many issues with it at the moment. I'll recast it later when I have more time. So this version is very heavy and not flexible, meaning it's hard to squeeze your head inside unless it's tiny (my girlfriend could, I could not). So it's more a display piece than an actual costume part. So visibility is not really the priority. I was thinking of using an led strip, but el tape is a good idea too. I just don't know how bendable it is, if it could follow the sharp angles of the visor or if I need to split it in several parts
     
  39. touketsu

    touketsu New Member

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    FAN-FRICKIN'-TASTIC! Glad you stuck with it, though the casting didn't go as you pleased. I don't suppose you're willing to share some of that sweet sweet STL?
     

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