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Original Stormtrooper Helmets

Discussion in 'Production Made Costumes and Props' started by JoeR, May 26, 2006.

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  1. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    What helmets are out there - that we know of?

    I know of 7 ROTJ Helmets in private collections of which three are studio/lesser helmets - I think. There were 2 ESB helmets sold recently. That leaves the 2 TE ANH helmets and then the 2 ANH Sandies that sold recently.

    Does anyone know of any other original helmets? I would love to see pictures of any original helmets that anyone has.

    Thanks

    Joe
     
  2. gizmo

    gizmo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For ANH helmets there`s also the Kurtz/Joiner archive stunt and then a stunt and a hero in the LFL Archives.

    Cheers,
    Ben
     
  3. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(gizmo @ May 26 2006, 02:07 PM) [snapback]1251034[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks Ben is that the re-painted one that is shown on SW helmets?

    There also appears to be a ROTJ in the LFL Archives. Then there is Mark Hamill's ANH Hero.

    TE mentioned seeing 2 ANH suits in the Lucasfilms archives recently onSandtrooper.net

    Joe
     
  4. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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  5. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Hi,

    The Joiner / Kurtz one is the one repainted on SWhelmets.com. It was also used to make tour suits in 1997 for a charity / promotional event. Unfortunately the tour suits got the same crappy paint job copied from the original and were not vac formed plastic.

    I would also love to see the one stunt and one hero in the LFL archives some RPF members do have photos but cannot share as they were told not to by LFL when they photographed them. Shame :(

    As for ROTJ helmets I think LFL have quite a few of these left over.

    Cheers Chris.
     
  6. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ May 26 2006, 03:31 PM) [snapback]1251075[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks Chris

    It breaks my heart to see that repainted Kurtz/Joiner helmet, the decals aren't even accurate.

    Seems like there are lots of ROTJ helmets floating about. Does anyone know how many were made?

    Joe
     
  7. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    Have you counted this one?
    [​IMG]
     
  8. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(troopermaster @ May 26 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]1251137[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks Paul

    That is included in the ROTJ helmets. Lucky screenused they also have one of the ANH sandies and an original TIE. :eek

    Joe
     
  9. Stormtrooper

    Stormtrooper Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(The Dark Side @ May 26 2006, 04:44 PM) [snapback]1251150[/snapback]</div>
    That makes it 8 ROTJ helmets in private collections, by my reckoning.... :unsure

    And I've no doubt that the attics and garages around London and the Home Counties still have some secrets to share ;)

    Cheers,
    John
     
  10. Bradleyfett

    Bradleyfett Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Mark Hamil still owns the helmet he wore in ANH- last I heard it wasn't in the best shape, but still together.

    If you are counting the tour helmets, are you counting the helmets made for the Lucasfilm Super Live Adventure Show in '93?

    On a related note:

    "Unfortunately the tour suits got the same crappy paint job copied from the original and were not vac formed plastic."

    If they weren't vac formed plastic, were they fiberglass?

    Mark
     
  11. Stormtrooper

    Stormtrooper Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Bradleyfett @ May 27 2006, 11:48 AM) [snapback]1251596[/snapback]</div>
    These aren't the 'official' 20th Century Fox Tour suits from 1997 onwards (which are all vac-formed), but the JJ suits which were created in the UK at approximately the same time. The helmets for these suits were indeed fibreglass and the armour was very-roughly trimmed... from a conversation with JJ he told me that they trimmed the armour with angle-grinders. :confused

    Cheers,
    John
     
  12. Bradleyfett

    Bradleyfett Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Stormtrooper @ May 27 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]1251609[/snapback]</div>
    These aren't the 'official' 20th Century Fox Tour suits from 1997 onwards (which are all vac-formed), but the JJ suits which were created in the UK at approximately the same time. The helmets for these suits were indeed fibreglass and the armour was very-roughly trimmed... from a conversation with JJ he told me that they trimmed the armour with angle-grinders. :confused

    Cheers,
    John
    [/b][/quote]

    Wait- I'm confused- are you talking about the LFL Super Live show suits/helmets?

    Mark
     
  13. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Bradleyfett @ May 27 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1251596[/snapback]</div>
    The tour suit's I saw at Wembley in '99 looked like they were made from rubber,almost like a wellington boot. I suppose they could have been made from vinyl and slush cast?

    Did anyone else see these suit's at the Kellog's MOM tour?
     
  14. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    <div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ May 26 2006, 10:31 AM) [snapback]1251075[/snapback]</div>
    That is not true of everyone who has photographed them and I think some just use that as an excuse to hold photos over people's heads to tantalize them...
     
  15. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Sorry to go off topic here, but is it really true that some of the ROTJ helmets were painted off white?
    It would be great if it was true, as i plan on building another ROTJ trooper helmet soon and i wanted to paint it off white.

    BTW, anyone who has any unseen pics of original trooper helmets, post them for Gods sake.

    Keith.
     
  16. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Stormtrooper @ May 27 2006, 07:27 AM) [snapback]1251595[/snapback]</div>
    Yep. Only time will tell.
     
  17. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Stormtrooper @ May 27 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]1251609[/snapback]</div>
    These aren't the 'official' 20th Century Fox Tour suits from 1997 onwards (which are all vac-formed), but the JJ suits which were created in the UK at approximately the same time. The helmets for these suits were indeed fibreglass and the armour was very-roughly trimmed... from a conversation with JJ he told me that they trimmed the armour with angle-grinders. :confused

    Cheers,
    John
    [/b][/quote]


    There are pictures of the tour suits made from Joiner/Kurtz archive in 1997 as they have been auctioned a couple of times in the past.
    The helmets are casts taken of the inside of the helmets so look wierd as they are sharp looking as they are effectively like bucks used for vac forming. The helmet was then made into a one piece fibreglass helmet unfortunately the faceplate is put in at a funny angle so they do look strange.

    To clear up any confusion if anybody would like to see photos of these 1997 tour suits I have a few or photographs of a helmet made from casts of the Joiner / Kurtz archive helmet ;) email me at chrissimm@gmail.com give me your email accounts and I will send them on.

    Cheers Chris.
     
  18. Bradleyfett

    Bradleyfett Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I apologize for taking this thread further off-track, but...


    I am really curious about the 'tour' suits and their origin because I have worked extensively with the LFL Super Live Adventure Show trooper suits (now owned by DisneyWorld), and I was wondering if they were of the same origin.

    So as I understand it, the tour suits/helmets were made from original ROTJ pieces owned by Jason Joiner and/or Gary Kurtz? Who made them? Could the LFL SLA Show suits be from the same maker?

    Pardon my ignorance- I'm not stormtrooper expert, but I've always been curious about the origin of the Disney suits.

    Mark
     
  19. Dark One

    Dark One Well-Known Member

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    So which type of tour suit is this???? This is the one that I wore.
     
  20. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    That one looks exactly like the ones I saw at Wembley MOM,with the pin holes next to the eyes.Much better than the JJ/Kurtz and the cut down Disney suit's.Below is a JJ/Kurtz
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    <div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ May 26 2006, 10:31 AM) [snapback]1251075[/snapback]</div>
    I received permission from a generous soul to post these. While I did not take them I have put my email addy on them to keep anyone else from claiming them as their own. Aside from the person who took these pics, I know TE has at least one pic showing these two helmets as well as at least 4 RotJ helmets in the archives, but he is (for whatever reason) unwilling to share them. I really appreciate these, non-TE pics being made available to me and now being made available to you. I am sorry this is all we have but at least it does prove the existance of the Hero helmet. If anyone else has additional photos, I strongly encourage them to share and not horde them as it can only benefit the community. These particular pics were taken approx 6 months ago, at the archives.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. gizmo

    gizmo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks Brak`s your an absolute champion.


    Cheers,
    Ben
     
  23. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Hi Braks,

    Thanks very much for sharing. Also please thank the generous soul who donated these pictures it is much appreciated :)


    :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

    Is the hero helmet the one used for all the LFL publicity stills?

    The left hand mic tip on the stunt looks way out of position compared to most possibly we can place this on screen now.

    Cheers Chris.
     
  24. yakcam

    yakcam Sr Member

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    :eek

    Thank you Braks for posting those and to the generous owner of the pics, you're both bloody legends.

    Cheers,

    Kraig
     
  25. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    Thanks Braks

    That is exactly what this thread is about - the sharing of pictures and information. Amazing pics.

    That picture confrims the Hero is def ABS and not painted HDPE.

    Cheers

    Joe
     
  26. FON

    FON Well-Known Member

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    My god... that is amazing.
     
  27. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for sharing these pics Braks,and a big thank you to owner of the pics too :thumbsup

    <div class='quotetop'>(The Dark Side @ May 28 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]1252034[/snapback]</div>
    I wouldn't say that Chris.The helmets could be made from another type of white plastic and could also be painted inside and out,just much more carefully than the stunts.It's quite possible the hero's were made from the same material as the armour,which I don't think is any kind of ABS.

    -Paul.

    EDIT-I think this hero helmet is the 'promo' guy.
     
  28. Luisiana Jones

    Luisiana Jones Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(troopermaster @ May 27 2006, 11:48 PM) [snapback]1251834[/snapback]</div>
    May be just me but isnt there something weird in this suit? :confused
     
  29. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic photos, many thanks for posting those :thumbsup

    The mic tips on the hero helmet seem to be made from a different material than the usual white injected stuff, at least in that pic.

    On a side note the JJoiner helmet is really a terrible helmet, you could even expect a CO fiberglass helmet to look better than that. :lol
     
  30. JoeR

    JoeR Sr Member

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    Paul

    It may not be ABS but is cannot be painted, there are scuffs but no paint chips, almost every other original painted helmet has paint chips....
     
  31. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(HDPE STORMY @ May 28 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]1252050[/snapback]</div>

    It does look terrible but on a side note I had heard the propmaker who made these fibreglass replicas of the helmet and armour only got one day with the originals to make casts so for a days work it aint that bad :lol

    One thing to note is that the JJ helmet is actually a cast of the inside on the helmet so if it were vac formed over it may look better???? Also the eyes are cut out too big and the faceplate is mounted in a terrible position (look at the gap between the dome and the faceplate at the forehead).

    The whole thing looks very weird.
     
  32. Stormtrooper

    Stormtrooper Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic pics, Braks.... big :thumbsup to you and the pics' owner for sharing these :)

    Cheers,
    John
     
  33. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Cool pics Braks, thanks for posting them and thanks to the owner :)

    Those pictures confirm that the hero helmets were made from high gloss plastic and not matt white plastic as some people thought.

    If the hero helmets were made from the same plastic as the x-wing helmets (and i think they would be) i would say they're made from acrylic capped styrene or abs.
    I didn't think that acrylic capped plastic would have been available back in 1976, until i saw the
    X-wing/Y-wing helmets i saw at the Christie's auction in London, which were definitely acrylic capped.

    Keith.
     
  34. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I wouldn't say high gloss, but more like a semi-gloss.
     
  35. _Lee_

    _Lee_ Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great pictures Brak :)

    I assume they are ANH helmets?If so could the Hero be the one the HF wore?

    JJ/Kurtz should be ashamed of that trooper costume,i almost felt physically sick at the sight of that monstrosity :D
     
  36. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(_Lee_ @ May 28 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]1252094[/snapback]</div>

    They should be more ashamed that they have auctioned a couple of them off billed as 'tour suits' through Profiles in History auction house. Some people actually paid thousands of pounds for these :eek: .


    Just out of interest does anybody have any good pics they are willing to share of the two TE helmets which are now the DavidM ANH Stunt Helmet and The BrianR ANH Stunt Helmet.

    Cheers Chris.
     
  37. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Hey guys. You are very welcome for the pics... just remember, it wasn't me, directly, that made them available. While I can't name the picture taker, I want to make sure credit is given where it is due.
     
  38. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ May 28 2006, 12:38 PM) [snapback]1252089[/snapback]</div>
    Hi Gino,

    I don't know about semi gloss, looking at those pics i don't think a helmet could be any more gloss than that and thats 30 year old plastic. Look at the picture taken of the front of the hero around the mic tips.
    I bet the hero helmets were made from the exact same acrylic capped plastic the X and Y wing helmets were made from and believe me, those were acrylic capped and very shiny.

    Keith.
     
  39. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I believe that the same material was used on the x and y wing helmets, it just wasn't acrylic capped. Keith, I'll be able to give you some better proof very soon.
     
  40. TK765

    TK765 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    <div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ May 28 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]1252018[/snapback]</div>
    I believe it is, I matched up the pic Matt took with one of the Promo hero and there were too many similarities for it not to be the same. I may post later.
     
  41. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    The helmets i saw at Christie's were acrylic capped.

    Keith.
     
  42. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    <div class='quotetop'>(TK765 @ May 28 2006, 10:28 AM) [snapback]1252124[/snapback]</div>
    I believe it is, I matched up the pic Matt took with one of the Promo hero and there were too many similarities for it not to be the same. I may post later.
    [/b][/quote]

    I believe it is too. There were some discrepancies but I believe at one point (and I can't find the pics) we were able to show that it is indeed the helmet see in all the publicity photos.
     
  43. dirtydave

    dirtydave Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    looks like the bottom trim on the LFL stunt is painted white,and the chin piece is well defined like the(move along trooper)looks like it not painted very well also,might help screen identify it.thanks for posting pic Brak.
     
  44. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the teeth where the holes have been cut out,it looks like there is another colour....the unpainted plastic?
    [​IMG]

    I still think these hero's were painted,just like the prototypes were.It also looks like the hero helmets do have the frames around the trapezoids as well :)
     
  45. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    <div class='quotetop'>(troopermaster @ May 28 2006, 12:09 PM) [snapback]1252162[/snapback]</div>
    I have to disagree. On virtually every helmet we have seen, the area underneath the ears is unpainted (yes, I know the Shepperton photos show some helmets without ears that are white) and there is always some amount of paint wear at the ear area where the sharp ear has rubbed paint from the helmet. You can see back into the area under the ear in this image and there is no paint missing. In fact, there is no paint missing anywhere. I think what you might be seeing is discoloration but it is nothing like what we see on the stunts. Could it be that the heroes are a white plastic that has been painted white as well? I guess it is possible, but I really don't think so. I think the theory that the heroes are simply formed white is correct.
     
  46. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    Until someone who has handled these can join in the discusision,all we can do is guess if they were painted or not.And they'd have to have a very good knowledge of plastics and their properties to identify the material used for the helmets too.I would say that the hero's are made from 'natural' colour plastic and painted white.Could be a number of different plastics used but my guess is that is was a standard 'off the shelf' plastic that was readily available.The paint looks to be sticking better to the hero's so you can count out polyethylene :p

    -Paul.
     
  47. Keith

    Keith Sr Member

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    Paul, i would be willing to bet my house that the hero helmets were not painted.

    Not only does it look like unpainted plastic, why would the hero helmets be painted, but the X-wing's/Y-wing's, Tie pilots and prototype trooper helmets be formed in unpainted plastic?

    The X-wing and Y-wings i saw were made from vey nice acrylic capped plastic and i seem to remember the prototype trooper was too, but i didn't pay much atyention to the prototype.

    I'm not sure, but it looks like the ears on the hero might be made from a different type of plastic than the rest of the helmet.

    Keith.
     
  48. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    If you zoom right in you can actually see a mottled effect on the plastic,just like a spray can leaves.The more I look at it the more it looks painted,just 100 times better than the stunts and with a different type of paint too.I don't know which proto was up for auction,but the one on 'starwarshelmets' with the cracked tube was definately painted.Also I don't see what X or Y wing helmets have to do with stormtrooper helmets?
     
  49. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>(Keith @ May 28 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]1252233[/snapback]</div>

    Hi Keith,

    I think you're right, the ears looks like they're made from a different material.

    That hero helmet doesn't look painted and I seem to recall in that interview of M Hamill that he said his stormtrooper helmet had yellowish badly (suggesting that he might have been given a hero helmet and only white plastic would yellowish).

    But I do find logical reasons as to why the hero helmets would have been painted: so that they would match the other trooper helmets (all the painted stunts).

    I might be wrong but the two troopers who gets on board the MF and get shot by Han have stunt helmets but when Luke and Han reappear dressed as stomrtroopers, they both wear hero helmets etc...

    But again, it doesn't look painted.
     
  50. TK765

    TK765 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    <div class='quotetop'>(troopermaster @ May 28 2006, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1252229[/snapback]</div>
    I have spoken to someone who has handled the hero and its NOT painted. In those pics Braks showed the hero is very white looking but in actuality the LFL Hero is much more yellowish than the LFL stunt as the plastic has aged.
     

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