OK, school me on ethics

[Slash-5]

I am a photographer and my work is stolen all the time. People steal my shoot ideas all the time. Drives me nuts, so I'm very in tune with the legalities of copyright, etc. in a general sense, but I am very new to the prop stuff...and what I see seems to be all over the board. So I thought maybe I'd post a few "what-if's" and see what you guys think:

1) What about props that are formally copyrighted by the original designer and a re used for a movie...then that set is re-used, perhaps without the permission of the original artist? Example: FLW Ennis house tiles used with permission for Bladerunner, but then re-used by all kinds of lower budget productions just because the set pieces were laying around? Were they wrong to use them?

2) Let's say I sculpt a Firefly blaster based on an Airsoft gun just for fun, but five people ask to buy casts of it, do I have the right to sell it to them? (In photography, it would be considered a "derivative work" if a certain percentage is original. The percentage changes by country.)

3) What if something is waaaay out of production (like the Sebastian "British Birds" chess set), and I find examples of the 6 types of original pieces. Is it wrong to recast additional pieces for myself to have a complete set?

4) If I buy a real movie prop (screen used) can I re-cast it for myself? Could I sell a casting?

I know all of this stuff is murky at times, but I just want to do the right thing. Thanks in advance.

 

[propmainiac]

Recasting for yourself is fine I believe as long as you aren't selling for profit. I'm not sure about taking an existing prop altering it a little then recasting that for profit. I've built items from scratch and I don't see a thing wrong with recasting your own work and selling it.

 

[Moviefreak]

1) What about props that are formally copyrighted by the original designer and a re used for a movie...then that set is re-used, perhaps without the permission of the original artist? Example: FLW Ennis house tiles used with permission for Bladerunner, but then re-used by all kinds of lower budget productions just because the set pieces were laying around? Were they wrong to use them?

If the prop is part of a prop shop, and another production picks up the prop to use in their production, it really wouldn't be an issue as I am sure they are paying the prop shop to use the piece, or they are being funded by a studio and the item is part of the studios revolving prop warehouse.

2) Let's say I sculpt a Firefly blaster based on an Airsoft gun just for fun, but five people ask to buy casts of it, do I have the right to sell it to them? (In photography, it would be considered a "derivative work" if a certain percentage is original. The percentage changes by country.)

You sculpted the piece based upon a design you saw, so you did the work and can cast it to sell. However, this is still a copyright violation to the studio who owns the Firefly prop designs. As far as the RPF, we here won't bat an eye to you selling a few, but if the studio decides to send a C&D letter to you, one would expect you would stop making them. Once you get a C&D, the mods would expect you would stop making the piece and selling it through the site as the RPF could get into some legal mess they do not want or need.

3) What if something is waaaay out of production (like the Sebastian "British Birds" chess set), and I find examples of the 6 types of original pieces. Is it wrong to recast additional pieces for myself to have a complete set?

If it is from a company who no longer makes something, the RPF usually won't care if you make casts of it to sell. You are not taking money out of an active company's pockets by doing a run here. Now if they were active in production, you would be hurting their sales and that would be deemed not cool.

4) If I buy a real movie prop (screen used) can I re-cast it for myself? Could I sell a casting?

If you buy a screen used piece, you are more than expected to make casts to sell, lol. No, seriously, people here love lineage and would love a direct cast from an original. The original maker was already paid for the work by the studio, and if they studio sold off the piece in auction, most people see that as selling the rights of the piece as they no longer wanted it. So again... you are not taking money out of anyone's pockets and hurting their production sales, and the RPF views this as passing along a chance to own a direct cast from the production piece. Closest thing to owning the original for a lot of people.

Hope that helps.

 

[Slash-5]

Thank you!

 

[cavx]

I am a photographer and my work is stolen all the time. People steal my shoot ideas all the time. Drives me nuts, so I'm very in tune with the legalities of copyright, etc. in a general sense, but I am very new to the prop stuff...and what I see seems to be all over the board. So I thought maybe I'd post a few "what-if's" and see what you guys think:

So buy stealing, that is using the image without your permission? Are you uploading these images to a website? Unless you water mark them, there really no way to protect your work and even if you do watermark, people will still save them and repost them if the images are good.

1) What about props that are formally copyrighted by the original designer and a re used for a movie...then that set is re-used, perhaps without the permission of the original artist? Example: FLW Ennis house tiles used with permission for Bladerunner, but then re-used by all kinds of lower budget productions just because the set pieces were laying around? Were they wrong to use them?

BLADE RUNNER is about 40 years old now, so maybe they did seek the owners permission, maybe they didn't. Who designed the wall tiles in the first place? A bit of a grey one. In this day and age, you would seek permission.

2) Let's say I sculpt a Firefly blaster based on an Airsoft gun just for fun, but five people ask to buy casts of it, do I have the right to sell it to them? (In photography, it would be considered a "derivative work" if a certain percentage is original. The percentage changes by country.)

Even thought airsoft is commercial branding, if you made custom parts, then those parts are yours and you can mold and cast them all you like. The only people who can send you a C&D is airsoft. Doubtful they would even bother.

3) What if something is waaaay out of production (like the Sebastian "British Birds" chess set), and I find examples of the 6 types of original pieces. Is it wrong to recast additional pieces for myself to have a complete set?

If it is a private collection for yourself, you do what you want. Post images on the Internet and maybe nothing happens because the parts are discontinued.

4) If I buy a real movie prop (screen used) can I re-cast it for myself? Could I sell a casting?

I know all of this stuff is murky at times, but I just want to do the right thing. Thanks in advance.

Would you credit the original artists, ask their permission or even offer them a percentage?
If you answer no, the this is when recasting gets a bad rap.
Put the shoe on the other foot. You make someting cool. Someone comes along and buys the item, molds and casts, then sells those casts as their own work. You don't even get a mention much less a cut of the profits. That is the type of recasting that gets you banned. Don't do it.

 

[Slash-5]

See next post. It's better.

 

[Slash-5]

As far as I can see, one big part of this equation is the design for intended use. For example, there is no problem re-casting a trigger from Charter ams because that cast doesn't compete with the sale of the original part.
Some, though could argue the same about screen used props. That the work of the original propmaster was paid for and used by the production, and that the recast serves a different purpose...namely, to just be a recast.

With image use, it's similar. I don't pursue situations when fans share my work as it does not compete with the intent of the original work (to sell Adidas, for example)...especially when they just share the image because they like it. When they use my images to create another work of art, I don't pursue, because that is considered a "derivative work" and does not compete with me.
However, when an artist posts my work as theirs, then I pursue.
I suspect it's similar in props.

In summary:

1) I'd say the owner of the original BR blaster could cast the blaster and sell the casting as "a cast of the original blaster."
2) I could buy a Steyr receiver, a CA Bulldog, and other parts...build a screen accurate blaster, and then sell casting of that blaster as "a casting of my BR blaster art" (kinda the same thing Coyle is doing or others, which is ethical). Because it does not compete with the original use.
3) What someone cannot do is buy a Coyle blaster and then cast it and sell it.
4) If the company originally making something, (like let's pretend if Steyr went out of business 60 years ago), then for the sake of making and selling props... I could make a Steyr receiver and sell it for prop use. It does not compete with their business, and they no longer exist. However, if their heirs issue a C&D, then in all fairness I should stop making that part.
5) Real props are a whole different animal. Propmasters for major productions use any old part they find. No-one else is credited, etc. and this I think, goes back to intended use. If I am a propmaster for the next Alien movie, and I want to make a gatling gun, I can use a motor from my dishwasher without credit, because that prop does not compete with the manufacturer of the dishwasher. However, if I work for Marvel, and DC comics has a gatling gun, I can't cast that gun and use it for a Marvel production unless I work for the prop house they both used and paid for...

Right?