New BR mystery??

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by drusselmeyer, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    After 25 years you would think that all information about a film would be known right?

    Well, I just discovered a new mystery...possibly 2!

    While exploring references for a model project, I discovered a couple of pics -Missing; 1 Spinner! That's right, one studio scale Spinner has not been accounted for...at least to my knowlege.

    This particular model was built at the same time as all the others in 1/12 scale - the same size as the Anubis/MIM Spinner.

    The second mystery is the fate of Rachael's 1/1 Alfa Spinner.

    Something to ponder.
     
  2. tripoli

    tripoli Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    As far as I know, its been sitting on the back lot at the Disney MGM Florida lot. Have a picture of me standing next to it down there back from 1991. I believe it is the original one from what I had heard at the time.
     
  3. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    Well, there are lots of mysteries surrounding BR. Add this one to the list. They made four sizes of Police Spinner, only 3 of which were actually used. There were three other vehicles made - the Alfa Romeo Spinner (the red car), the "lobster" car (yellow, with large forks in front), and a fuel tanker car.

    The 1/4 scale Spinner is in Paris (though nobody I've spoken with including Mark Stetson) knows how it got there. It appears to be modified with some weird detail parts and a couple of graphics. The museum it is displayed in has turned down offers to have it restored and claims it is only on loan.

    The 1/12th scale Spinner is MIA. I asked Mark about this a few weeks ago and he had no ide where it went. According to my notes, it was more like 15.5" long and the Anubis was something like 18" (right?). It's a pity this one is missing since it did the lion's share of the work in the film. It was built before the others, so it has the little mounts for the laser cannons on the wheels and roof.

    The 4" ones were cast up in multiple but never used. I have a 3rd generation casting that is just a piece of crap. Profiles offered up a 4" a little while ago, but this was nothing more than a casting off of an original that was painted up. (I don't think it sold). The crew guys all made casting for themselves, so this one is "out there".

    The 1" ones really look crappy up close. Again, they were cast up in multiples, so I'm sure they are out there as well.

    The Alfa Romeo Spinner (the red one) was displayed at a VFX exhibit here in LA in the late 80's that I went to. So it is still around.

    I haven't heard anything about the lobster spinner or the fuel truck. I can't remember if they were on display at the VFX exhibit.

    The blimp wound up in private hands via auction.

    The large section of the Tyrell building was given to the Museum of the Moving Image in New York by Mark Stetson some time ago.

    The full Tyrell building miniature caught fire during filming and was junked.

    Some of the other buildings were junked, but most survived as rental pieces and some of those have been sold off.

    Sections of Hades show up from time to time.

    Well, all I can say is remember last year's WorldCon. You never know where/when this stuff is going to show up.

    Gene
     
  4. Carson Dyle

    Carson Dyle Sr Member

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    They were, along with the Police Precinct building (complete with a perimeter ring of deco light sconces scratched from Aurora LIS Robot collar castings).
     
  5. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I thought the blimp is (or was) at the Warner Brothers prop museum?
     
  6. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    I was told that it was going to be on display there this month. And it was used as a backdrop for some of the BR DVD interviews. As to the ownership, I don't know exactly who, only that it was offered up at auction. Conceivable that Warners might have bought it. But that would be weird. And a tad ironic.

    Gene
     
  7. Pauleysolo

    Pauleysolo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The Alfa Romeo Spinner (the red one) was displayed at a VFX exhibit here in LA in the late 80's that I went to. So it is still around.

    -I saw this model at a VFX exhibit at a museum in Los Angeles in 1987- It was in really good shape then.
     
  8. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I'm nearly postitive it was there 5-10 years ago when I toured the studio.
     
  9. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  10. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    From the Cinefex article / book:

    "Since only one miniature of any given size was available, shots requiring two or more spinners had to be photographed as separate elements and composited together in optical. One particularly complex sequence involved an early morning flight over the Hades landscape as Deckard and Gaff make their way to the Tyrell corporate headquarters. In order to create a rush hour atmosphere, Ridley Scott wanted to show numerous flying vehicles stacked in formation, darting in and out of the aerial traffic patterns and jockeying for position. To avoid having all the vehicles look exactly alike, however, executing the plan called for further involvement on the part of the miniatures crew. "Doug asked us to come up with three different vehicles for the traffic scenes," Mark Stetson recalled. "He said: 'Don't invest too much time in them. Have them armatured for maybe one position; and if you get a minute, throw a light in: Doug makes it sound easy."

    With virtually no instructions beyond coming up with three vehicles that fit the Blade Runner style, Stetson turned the project over to Bill George. "We discussed going out and buying some hand appliances and sticking some wheels on them," George quipped, "but that idea was scrapped. Aside from being spinner-like, the only other description I was given was that one of the cars must look like a futuristic Ferrari. Chris Ross came up with some design sketches for me on the Ferrari; and he also –
     
  11. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    " – sketched a hybrid of a Syd Mead design which I picked out of his book, Sentinel. The third vehicle was a takeoff of one of the huge trucks we had seen out on the Burbank studios backlot. All three were built in two weeks. Later, we added more lights and different paint jobs to make them do double duty. The truck only ended up in a couple of shots, but the Ferrari and the 'Lobster' - the Syd Mead design - were used much more than originally planned. One day I was walking by Dave Dryer's office and I saw the Ferrari inside. Someone had put a little bumper sticker on it that said: 'Honk If You Love Hades.' "


    -Mike
     
  12. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    Bill George building the truck.


    -Mike
     
  13. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    Okay then, my information was correct: No one has seen Rachael's Alfa Spinner for 25 years and the 1/12 scale Police Spinner is missing.

    Does anyone have pics of the 1/12 scale Spinner? What about the missing detail pieces for the 4" spinner?

    This is what I have:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2007
  14. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    How could we tell which one is the 1/12 spinner?

    About what size would it be?

    I think one of the 4-inchers in up for bids in the next Profiles in History auction.


    -Mike
     
  15. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    The 1/12th Spinner is about 15" long. There are some slight detail differences between it and the 44" (1/4 scale). It was built to have the laser cannons on the wheels, before the lights were retrofitted.

    Beware of any 4" Spinners you come across. Thought the EEG guys cast up multiples for use in the film (that ultimately were never actually used), they also made several copies for themselves. And those copies were copied, and so on and so on and so on...... And the one that came up for auction just a little while ago? It was a present day recast. (I have no idea about the one that's up now.) I've got a crappy casting - it's about 3 1/2" - that I got at some convention years ago.

    Gene
     
  16. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Then, how big were the roof spinners?
     
  17. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    Those were the 1" ones.........

    From what the guys who worked on this told me, the 4" ones were intended as traffic pattern spinners. Stuff that would be in the mid background to give a "freeway lane in the sky" look. Unfortunately, shooting them as a miniature meant a lot more elements to be shot and ultimately the technique was dropped in favor of animation.

    I had thought that the Spinners seen on the rooftop of the Police HQ were the 4" ones, but Mark Stetson told me otherwise.

    Gene
     
  18. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    So there is no ref on the 15" workhorse Gene....at all?
    Seems a huge shame TBH. I have one of the smaller kits that pop up now and then, its that bad itll never be built.
    Be great to see something in the 15" range produced as a kit, anyone know what else was different from the 15" to the large model?

    lee
     
  19. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Could the 4-inchers have been used on other rooftops? The Tyrell building, or the 'sushi stand', or the aborted rooftop shot?
     
  20. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  21. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    OK, see those things on the back of the front wheel covers? The triangular-ish shaped things that kinda square off the back of the wheel cover? Those are part of the laser cannons that were mounted on the front wheels. The rail thing just behind the driver's side door was a mount for another one. And there was yet another one on the roof. All of that got changed when the laser cannon concept got dropped. The 44" was built without them altogether, but the 15" was left with those things on the front wheels.

    The police lights on the 15" were just bulbs that were controlled by the MOCO unit (I think they only blinked). The 44" had this bar rig that they attached for a special light pass that actually focused the light beams. The 44" had police lights, headlights and running lights (those curved strips on the wheel covers and the rear wing flap thingees). The 15" had police lights, headlights, and interior lights.

    The 44" had two figures that could move their heads. The 15" had only one figure (the driver). The 15" did have interior lights - but they were backlight films. You can see the rear center console in the photo Sith Sheriff Brody posted.

    The 44" had motorised wheel covers and wing flaps. The 15" was static in that respect. The blueprint for the full size Spinner indicates that the whole rear bumper section articulates, though I don't know if that was incorporated into the miniature.

    From what I've been able to figure out, it looks like the 15" was started first, perhaps after some study models. Because it didn't have to have all the bells and whistles, it was further along when the changes started. The 44" had a really complicated chassis, and when the change to the police lights came along, it was a pain because there was no room for the articulation gear for the police lights.

    Completely overbuilt and under utilized. But man, what a design. Thank you Syd Mead..............
     
  22. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    I've seen some photos from the aborted rooftop shot. It's a pretty simple setup. The background is a section of the planet Hades tabletop miniature. There is a foreground rooftop model that looked like it was cobbled together from one of the large scale buildings they initially built. The radar dish from Bill George's Millennium Falcon is in there (and it pops up on another building too). There is a car there, but it isn't a spinner. Just looks like a model kit that was thrown together.

    The shots of the Tyrell Pyramid I've seen show some really tiny Spinners, so I think those are the 1" models.

    I don't know about the Sushi stand - but I was told that they were never used. Wound up as souveniers for the crew.

    Gene
     
  23. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    So this is a roof Spinner??

    [​IMG]
     
  24. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    Sure looks like one. One of the tells are the wheel covers in the ground position (the 4" spinner had them in the flying position).

    Gene
     
  25. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    Flying position??? Like Gaff's landed Spinner in the Batty death sequence??

    :lol:lol:lol


    If Gaff can do it, I would guess that 'flying' position is also 'rooftop' position.;)

    On a more serious note: So, no one has sighted 1/1 Rachael's Spinner either?


    It seems the Police Spinner is 31.5' on the blueprints. It would be nice to know how accurate is this to the actual Spinner.
     
  26. spinner 44

    spinner 44 Well-Known Member

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    I have a original Warner Bros slide of the finished 15" spinner showing a 3/4 from the rear. The model is painted in a darker blue than the 44" spinner but the markings are very similar, no spinner 44, police, or 44 signs though.

    The triangular details on the wheel covers are gone, but it has 2 "laser guns" as in the original Syd Mead design: one mounted over the cabin, next to the light on the top, another mounted in a rail, in the left hand side of the model. No police lights.

    I'm 100% positive the model was filmed with this configuration, but there are some other scenes which either the model is seen too far away or not clear enough so you cannot tell if the laser cannons are there or not.

    The light configuration for this one was: yellow lights in the wheel covers, four white bulbs in the search light, red lights in the side exhausts, a yellow light on the top, yellow stripes for the back flaps. Very bright spot light next to the light mount looking front. Very bright white spot light in the back (over the engine cover). Two white blinking lights on the top of the front wheel covers, one red blinking light on the belly and one dim white light spot next to it.

    This miniature can seen in the opening scene: first is the lobster spinner and then the 15" miniature. Then it can be seen approaching the Tyrell Cop. building. Later you can see it just after the Bryant/Deckard meeting, passing by the big Coca Cola advert. Later in the early morning traffic scene it can be spotted in: 1 car interior point of view looking front, is the car to the left (the other is the ferrari spinner in think), 2. frontal shot of the spinner: third car to the right (first one is the lobster spinner, then the 44" hero, and the fourth is the alfa romeo spinner). Then when they are approaching the Tyrell tower, you see the 15" coming towards you and leaving to the left side of the screen. After that there is a shot of a small spinner going left to right down the screen, that is the 15" again. Then when Priss is arriving to the Bradbury, the 15" can be seen flying over, same thing happens when Deckard arrives to the Bradbury.



    Sadly I don't have a scanner at home. Same thing happens with my Blade Runner dvd, the one I have here is the old one (crappy image) but if you have patience and time please do check this scenes and let me know what you think.


    Have a better one!
     
  27. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    http://bladezone.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21070#21070

    " Where is the missing Spinner??

    In the convention reel, you can clearly see TWO police Spinners driving on the set. Since the flying Spinner was incapable of this -an engine (for example) would have made it too heavy for the wires.

    There is a Spinner missing!

    The 'missing' list grows:

    -1/1 Rachael Spinner
    -1/1 Police Spinner
    -1/1 Police Spinner interior
    -1/12 Police Spinner miniature"



    How did this happen??
     
  28. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Seems we have a flying mode which also works for spot landing mode.
    Makes sense, if you have to make an emergency landing you can just put 'er down anywhere.

    Can I buy a real one? Quite ready thank you.
     
  29. spinner 44

    spinner 44 Well-Known Member

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    drusselmeyer,

    The vehicles were destroyed as requested by Ridley Scott. Gene Windfield (who made the 1/1 vehicles) recalls they saved a couple of spinners (one was the land version, was stored in Orlando and later destroyed the other is the flying spinner thatbis in the Sci_Fi Museum in Seattle), a couple of Deackard's sedan (I have never seen one of these) and one Police Sedan (this one is in Police museum.. can't remember where).

    The interior was only the front section and I'm positive they dismantled it after filming. FYI this interior was refurbished in two ways: as the flying spinner interior and as the Deckcard Sedan Interior (they just changed the seats and some details).

    I'm sorry but I can't recall Rachel driving any spinner in the movie, what is that you call the Rachael's spinner?

    Best regards
     
  30. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There was a full size floating around San Diego/El Cajon area for a while back then. Showed up at car dealerships a few times.

    No detailed interior.

    Then never saw or heard of it again.
     
  31. Bantha Crossing

    Bantha Crossing Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd "missing" spinner that your referring to that was motorized, was taken over to Japan(mid 90's I think) and was sold to a private collector there and has not seen the light of day.:(
     
  32. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    I think that was the Flying Spinner that is now in the Sci-Fi Museum. I saw it in the early 80's at a car show in Seattle. It had been repainted by George Barris in a metallic blue paint and featured the full "Blade Runner" logo in red on the rear of the car. The interior was bare - just basic seats and all the indicator panels were painted in day-glo orange and green. After the promo circuit, it wound up at a movie car museum in Hollywood. This was the mid-80's. By that time, it had been repainted again - just plain blue with a sorry attempt at the markings from the movie. Also, the windshield/canopy was cracked. That museum was gone by the late 80's, when I got here (God....20 years ago next month). Don't know where it was was during the 90's.

    I still want to know how the 44" Spinner got to Paris.

    Gene
     
  33. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    OK, now I am really confused.

    There were two used in BTTF 2: One black and one Yellow. This confused me for some time, since there were two paint schemes for one car and not for any others. Now it seems that there were actually two cars. Those were repainted blue and one made the rounds representing Barris at various places for some reason and the other wound up in Orlando. Or, one that Barris had went to Orlando and the other simply disappeared.

    I am still trying to get confirmation of the destruction of the BR cars at MGM-D. The story I got was: TWDC ordered the destruction of the Police Spinner in 1998 before the ownership of BR was clearly defined for the public. TWDC has a record of claiming things that are not their property BTW. There is ample evidence that both a Police cruiser and a Spinner were in the MGM-D lot at the time.

    You never actually see her driving it. The miniature is the red car that flies past Deckard and Gaff on the way to Tyrell Corp.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  34. spinner 44

    spinner 44 Well-Known Member

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    drusselmeyer,


    Yes that miniature of the flying red spinner (named Rachel's spinner in the 1/64 diecast set) is gone away from public eye. I guess is in some private collector's house, same thing as the 16" miniature spinner. I don't have evidence of this, but I honestly prefer to believe this than to think they are lost or destroyed.


    I guess you have read already these articles,they may bringht a bit of light to your research

    http://media.bladezone.com/contents...found/spinner_and_sedan/spinner_and_sedan.php

    http://media.bladezone.com/contents/film/production/props/lostandfound/spinner2/two_spinners.php

    http://media.bladezone.com/contents/film/production/props/spinner_today/spinner_today.php

    This one by Bryan is amazingly well researched and will answer most of your questions regarding the Spinner.



    So to cut a long story short:

    -Flying spinner. Sold in 1990 to the Miami Police Museum after being in storage. Badly damaged in transit to the museum. Purchased by Jay Ohrberg and then restored. Exhibited for years, the sold to a private collector. Auctioned in 2005 and restored by Gene Windfield, now exhibited at the SF Museum in Seattle.

    -Main ground spinner. Fully detailed. Saved for promotion of the film and sent over Germany. Bought by Jay Ohrberg. Toured Europe. Finally bought by Disney MGM Studios in Orlando. Seems it was destroyed.

    -Back up ground spinner. This was used to promote the film in the USA. Thern sold to George Barris (repainted and restored) then to Bob Butts. This is the spinner that appears in BTTF 2 (repainted in many ways) and Solar Crisis. Sold to George Barris, in 1993 was sent to promote a re-release of Blade Runner in Japan, then it was auctioned and bought by a japanese collector. Never to be seen again.

    -Car interior. No confirmation of it being dismatled or destroyed.

    -Deckard's bronze sedan. In the Miami Police Museum (repainted red and new lettering added)
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  35. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    Couple of photos pertaining to my last post. The indoor shot is from a car show in Seattle circa 1982. The outdoor shot is actually from 1986 from a Car Museum that was set up on Hollywood Blvd at an unused car dealership. By the late 80's (88 or 89), that place was gone. Least I don't remember seeing it when I got to LA. The red "stripe" on the later photo looks like gaffer's tape covering up a crack in the canopy. Note that someone repainted the lower portion of the canopy and the annunciator lights on the wheels.

    Gene
     
  36. drusselmeyer

    drusselmeyer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks G. Those are beauties!
     

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