Need Help with Rocketeer Cirrus X3 Rocketpack Electronics

[RJMonette88]

Hello all!

I'm stuck in an interesting situation with my Rocketeer Cirrus X3 Rocketpack.

About a year ago I was extremely fortunate to purchase EvilRocketeer's beautiful rocketpack.
This pack came complete with some electronics already installed. These electronics are lights for each rocket, and a working fan.
It appears that each light and the fan are powered by 2 separate 6v rechargeable battery systems.
Right now you can power them on with a simple SPST pushbutton located on the back of the pack. Push once for on, push again for off.

I recently purchased Valor's amazing complete electronic kit. I have also added an amp (then a SPST toggle between the amp and 12v battery) and new speaker to have the sound be louder. The plan is to eventually have this kit control everything and have the momentary push button be placed in the glove that will eventually come from TheRocketeer's current interest project run.

So here is where I am stuck.
I'm somewhat lost on how to merge or incorporate the pre-existing electronics in my rocketpack with Valor's kit.
The goal is to have Valor's momentary push button activate the lights, sound, and fan to turn on when pressed, and off when released.
I will attach some pictures below to help show and give an idea what my setup looks like.
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Valor]

I'll jump back in here Ryan. These pictures help a bunch. ...
To recap: My kit requires 12V to drive the lights and the amp. And 3V to drive the chip and speaker.

It seems your end goal is:
1) Have a fan that spins when you turn on the engines.
2) Have a rechargeable system.

Each one of those wood boards hold the 6V battery and a small board that likely drives the light or the recharge.

Each battery is 6V output, which does does nothing for you. You could theoretically run both 6V packs together in series to get the 12V you need (see attached) ...
But I really don't know how the recharge ports and electronics are going to cooperate.

So, I think you're best to scrap the batteries, boards, lights and recharge ports. I think the only thing to keep from the old system, is the fan.

You can buy a new 12V rechargeable battery and charger here:
http://www.robotshop.com/en/12v-160...HUr6fICpIPqNFz9qf_vk6GfVi0FluSkAaAu6eEALw_wcB

You may want a kill switch between the battery and the system ... to disconnect when you're charging.

The fan is easy enough I think. You could pig-tail the wires to the 12V leads running to the lights. I'm guessing you'll get a spinning fan when the lights trigger.

Anyone else have a thought?

 

[RJMonette88]

This is great Steve! Thank you for jumping in to help!
I'm definitely thinking along the same lines you are in regards to scrapping all the pre-existing electronics.
I've been mulling over some similar ideas with some of the knowledge I've gained from my proton pack and R2.
I was thinking about having a main 12V rechargeable battery to a terminal and have some sort of step-down to 3v from that to power the chip/speaker.

 

[Valor]

I was advised by the guy who made the chip to not trust any step down. Any fluctuation will fry the chip.

 

[RJMonette88]

Dang. You think even if I got something like this? (http://surerobotics.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=71)
I use one of these for all my 5v components in my 12v R2.

 

[Paul6700]

Hi RJ,
Chris's converters will only go down to 5 volts which is too high for that chip. I would do as Valor is suggesting.

 

[Treybert]

Well the sound board says it runs on up to 5v, so that POSSIBLY puts you into usb battery pack range. USB power spec is technically up to a max of 5.25v. Those are nice to use because they're cheap, and typically charge from any of the hundred chargers you have around your house.

These power packs are typically lithium too, so the output voltage is nice and flat.

For 12v, you can do a step-up converter such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/WINGONEER-LM...&sr=8-19&keywords=5v+to+12v+step+up+converter

You'd need a kill switch to cut all voltage though, otherwise the attached electronics will slowly drain the battery while in stand-by.

The question though is current draw. A 'high speed' power pack is around 2.4amps at 5v, or 12w. So at 12v (assuming no loss, which there will be), you'd be looking at 12v @ 1amp. I don't know if this is enough, but I believe the audio amp is 7W draw max.


To get everything to run on 1 push button, there are a couple of options I see.
1) replace the existing 6v lights with either 12v versions (ie the ones from Valor) then wire them into the push-button. The fans will probably run on 12v just fine, at least for short periods of time.
2) use the push-button to trigger any number of relays, which can be used to activate the existing lights, fans, etc... all with different voltages too

 

[RJMonette88]

Hi RJ,
Chris's converters will only go down to 5 volts which is too high for that chip. I would do as Valor is suggesting.

He has the option for custom voltage output. Do you think that would include 3v?

 

[RJMonette88]

Well the sound board says it runs on up to 5v, so that POSSIBLY puts you into usb battery pack range. USB power spec is technically up to a max of 5.25v. Those are nice to use because they're cheap, and typically charge from any of the hundred chargers you have around your house.

These power packs are typically lithium too, so the output voltage is nice and flat.

For 12v, you can do a step-up converter such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/WINGONEER-LM...&sr=8-19&keywords=5v+to+12v+step+up+converter

You'd need a kill switch to cut all voltage though, otherwise the attached electronics will slowly drain the battery while in stand-by.

The question though is current draw. A 'high speed' power pack is around 2.4amps at 5v, or 12w. So at 12v (assuming no loss, which there will be), you'd be looking at 12v @ 1amp. I don't know if this is enough, but I believe the audio amp is 7W draw max.


To get everything to run on 1 push button, there are a couple of options I see.
1) replace the existing 6v lights with either 12v versions (ie the ones from Valor) then wire them into the push-button. The fans will probably run on 12v just fine, at least for short periods of time.
2) use the push-button to trigger any number of relays, which can be used to activate the existing lights, fans, etc... all with different voltages too

Great stuff! Thank you!
So here's my new predicament, which makes me lean towards your second option...
The pre-existing lights that came installed in my pack, well... I can't get them out. They seem to be very installed into the boosters and I'm too nervous to attempt to take them out and harm anything in the process.

So as of right now, here's what I'm thinking... A main 12v rechargeable system with a step-down to 6v for the lights and fan (most likely using one of Chris' mentioned in the link I posted 2 posts ago). And then if a step down to 3v doesn't work/still isn't advised, I'll just keep the current 2 AA setup and be ok with swapping batteries every once and a while.

Thoughts?

 

[RJMonette88]

I'm also thinking about this for the main 12v battery.

https://www.gbfans.com/shop/pack-parts/12v-9800-mah-battery-pack/

It's what I have for my GB proton pack. It has an On/Off switch and a port to quickly connect the charger.

Thoughts?

 

[Treybert]

A voltage regulator might make sense too:
https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Numeric...31&sr=8-12&keywords=dc+voltage+regulator&th=1

That one will take anywhere to 6-40v and output 0-32v (always lower though). And you can set a max current value to prevent the amp from drawing too much.

If you take 12 and drop it to 3 though, just keep in mind that the difference in voltage is made up in heat dissipation. The levels are probably lower than what will matter, but just something to watch for.

 

[Paul6700]

He has the option for custom voltage output. Do you think that would include 3v?

I am not sure if he has a 3volt option. If he does, then that would be a great way to have the whole system 12 volts and use the stepdown board for your 3 volt board.

 

[propmaster2000]

I have dabbled in electronics for a while and have at some time or another needed less then 5v.
To achieve the regulated 5v, I usually use the 7805 regulator (pretty straight forward).

Another choice has been the LM317 ADJUSTABLE regulator. It can provide the 3v some circuits require (but caution should be observed).
The LM317 does need some knowledge of electronics, external components and soldering. It doesn't take up a lot of room.
Here is a video link on youtube showing this regulator (I am not responsible for the information it contains, but it does have some useful information).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJWWGPjc-w

The video shown below is for reference only and these regulators should still be used with caution.
This is shown as a no load situation. Under load they act differently.

.

 

[RJMonette88]

Super great and informative! Thank you!

- - - Updated - - -

So I just worked with Chris from SureRobotics, and he is able to make a 12v to 3v convertor.
So right now my setup is looking like 12v main power source to a terminal block, feeding a 12v to 6v convertor for the pre-existing lights (that I can't uninstall) and fan, and a 12v to 3v convertor for the sound board.
Hopefully this should all be good.

 

[propmaster2000]

Nice!
Update us when you can.
Interested in finding out your final solution and 3v regulation you are using.
Video the outcome.

.

 

[RJMonette88]

Nice!
Update us when you can.
Interested in finding out your final solution and 3v regulation you are using.
Video the outcome.

.

I definitely will!

 

[RJMonette88]

Ok, well, I have all the parts now and have attempted to connect everything as discussed above, but I've hit some road blocks...
I will try my best to explain everything in as much detail as I can.

I have a 12v 9800 mAh battery as the main power source.
The battery feeds a terminal block.
The terminal block feeds power to the 12v to 6v convertor, the 12v to 3v convertor, and the audio amp.
I have mimicked the wiring plan to Valor's wiring diagram, having the wiring from the momentary push button connected to everything as I believe it should.
The issue that I'm having is when I connect the lights to the 6v supply with the 3v supply feeding the sound board, everything shuts down the moment I press the momentary push button.
However when I attach the lights to the 3v supply everything works however the lights seem somewhat dimmer than they used to be.
Then once I started to incorporate the fan while having the lights and fan also powered from the 12v to 3v convertor, the fan crawls to a start.
Just to experiment I connected it to the 12v passthrough and it was flying like crazy.
There also was another problem I faced... You can hear it in all the clips, when the audio file plays, towards the end I get a loud amount of noise followed by a pop.
And now I think once I introduced the fan into the mix, I think the sound board chip is fried because I'm not getting anything.
I'm stumped.
Hopefully the videos below can help bring insight into the situation.
What am I missing? Clearly I've missed a step somewhere.



In all of the following the amp is powered directly from the 12v terminal block...

Below is a video of the 12v to 3v convertor feeding the sound board and the lights:
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpto9soue1o66ji/IMG_0998.MOV?dl=0[/video]

Below is a video of the 12v to 6v feeding the lights, and the 12v to 3v feeding the sound board:
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofmhihwrrcs7yys/IMG_0999.MOV?dl=0[/video]

Below is a video of the sound board, lights, and fan all being powered by the 12v to 3v convertor:
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/38zlz5s4z0vdlk8/IMG_1002.MOV?dl=0[/video]


Thank you for in and all help!

Ryan

 

[propmaster2000]

Hi Ryan,
Is the fan rated for 6v or 12v?
The lights are rated for 6v, is this correct?
The sound boards needs 3v, nothing more?
The amp runs on 12v?
Do you have a multi meter to check all voltages (12v, 6v, 3v) to see if everything is there including the 12v on the rechargeable battery?

You may need to take a step back to see if all the components still work independently of each other to be sure you are working with good accessories.
Disconnecting these items will guaranty they are not effecting each other, to verify all is well.

When you first press the start button, what is the sequence of events and what is controlling this, a micro controller?
What activates the sound, lights and fan. Are they independent of one another?
Is the 12v amp on all the time and waiting for the sound signal from the sound board?
It looks as though the sound effects are timed with the rocket lights.....
What is the fan for?

Added note:
I see from the videos, you are the controller.
When you press the button, you have to hold it in as long as you want thrust sound and lights.
When you release the button, the lights go out while the thrust sound winds down.
In one of the videos you moved two white wires from the 3v supply to the 6v supply. What were these wires for?
The 3v power supplies only job is to power the sound board and nothing else and the 6v for the lights.
Apparently, when you turn on the MAIN power from the battery to the 12v terminal block, both power supplies receive
the 12v supply and they are on all the time.

I can see where the sound effect board would need it's 3v throughout it's cycle to maintain the sound effect from start to finish
as well as the 12v to the amp.

Is your momentary switch a multi contact and is it doing two functions. Putting the 6v on the lights and TRIGGERING the sound
board effect?

When is the fan supposed to get power?

Thanks for the video references.

.

 

[RJMonette88]

Hi Ryan,
Is the fan rated for 6v or 12v?
The lights are rated for 6v, is this correct?
The sound boards needs 3v, nothing more?
The amp runs on 12v?
Do you have a multi meter to check all voltages (12v, 6v, 3v) to see if everything is there including the 12v on the rechargeable battery?

You may need to take a step back to see if all the components still work independently of each other to be sure you are working with good accessories.
Disconnecting these items will guaranty they are not effecting each other, to verify all is well.

When you first press the start button, what is the sequence of events and what is controlling this, a micro controller?
What activates the sound, lights and fan. Are they independent of one another?
Is the 12v amp on all the time and waiting for the sound signal from the sound board?
It looks as though the sound effects are timed with the rocket lights.....
What is the fan for?

Added note:
I see from the videos, you are the controller.
When you press the button, you have to hold it in as long as you want thrust sound and lights.
When you release the button, the lights go out while the thrust sound winds down.
In one of the videos you moved two white wires from the 3v supply to the 6v supply. What were these wires for?
The 3v power supplies only job is to power the sound board and nothing else and the 6v for the lights.
Apparently, when you turn on the MAIN power from the battery to the 12v terminal block, both power supplies receive
the 12v supply and they are on all the time.

I can see where the sound effect board would need it's 3v throughout it's cycle to maintain the sound effect from start to finish
as well as the 12v to the amp.

Is your momentary switch a multi contact and is it doing two functions. Putting the 6v on the lights and TRIGGERING the sound
board effect?

When is the fan supposed to get power?

Thanks for the video references.

.

Wow!
Thank you for your incredible response and willingness to dig into this with me.
Ok, now to answer your questions...

The fan originally was powered with 6v along with one of the lights in the packs original setup when I bought it. There were 2 separate 6v battery packs, as you can see in my very first post on this thread, one fed one light, the other fed a light and the fan.

The lights are 6v.

The sound board strictly needs 3v.

The amp runs on 12v.

I really do need to go find and but a multimeter. Pretty silly that I don't have one.

I'm going to take a step back today and power everything individually just in case.
As I mentioned above though, I'm concerned something in the process I tried last night fried the sound board. Valor warned me that they could be temperamental and anything over 3v would fry them.

As for your questions in regards to the start button, micro controller, I'm not 100% sure, but I can include Valor's amazing instructional PDF here for reference. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm trying to merge what Valor amazingly made with what my pack came with when I got it.
Basically I am trying to keep the 6v lights I have in my pack (because they are permanently attached), have sound, have a fan spin, all activated with the press of the momentary press button and stopped upon release of said button, powered by one main rechargeable battery.

The amp is getting 12v directly from the main battery via the terminal block. I have a SPST toggle between the main power and the amp as well, just in case I don't want the amp to continually be drawing power.
All convertors are getting 12v all the time.
The push button has 5 wires coming from it and it does trigger the sound and lights. It tells the lights to turn on and off, and triggers the sound board to play and stop, whilst the amp always stays powered on.
I was assuming I could have the fan share a connection with one of the lights like it was in my pack originally to turn on when the button is pressed along with the lights. You can see it worked in the first video link, but I'm assuming since it should be running on 6v is why the fan and lights are weak.

The little clear wires you asked about that I moved from the first video to the second video were for the lights.
In the second video was when I had the lights powered from the 12v to 6v convertor.
In theory the switch would be triggering the 6v lights and 3v sound board, but when I had it configured that way using the 12v to 6v convertor and 12v to 3v convertor, as soon as I pressed the button, the convertors shut off and the red light on the terminal block went dim. Too much of a power draw??
The fan would be powered exactly the same time as the lights.

Thank you again for your willingness to help!!!

Here are Valor's original instructions:

 

[propmaster2000]

I can see from the drawing the circuit uses a DPDT switch with common being the center tab.
In the inactive mode, the contacts are open on the top two contacts (N.O.) of the 2 internal switches.
No power to the LED lights in one of the internal switches and in the other internal switch, the top 2 wires
are not connected (NO) but the bottom 2 are connected (N.C.) putting GND to pin 18.
When the button is pressed (activated), then the center contact removes the GND from pin 18 and applies it
to pin 19 triggering the sound. At the same time on the other switch, the center contact connects to the top tab
(closes) and the light illuminates as long as you hold the switch in.
I guess you changed the 12v to the lights, to 6v power supply.
The 3v power supply has it's own function and should not be compromised or used for any other purpose.
As I see it the TRIGGER GND. for the sound board is coming from the 3v power supply to pins 18 and 19.

If 3v is getting to the sound board directly and the 12v is feeding the amp. directly, the 6v should go through
the PB switch to turn on the lights and active the sound, it is set to go.

.